Parking and traffic in Phoenix Park

Flinty997

Anyone realize what day it was...

National Slow Down Day

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/0301/1283636-national-slowdown-day/

Hurrache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715628#Comment_118715628

Such a ridiculous post. Driver struggling to drive at 30kph could do with more lessons for starters. and the siege mentality might be dealt with by counselling.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118718144#Comment_118718144

It's unnatural to drive that slow. It requires much more effort to maintain such a slow speed than to just drive at a speed that suits the road

Larbre34

No, 60 would be excessive. Cos if you post 60, folk will do 70. And a big issue, especially at night, is deer roaming out and not being seen in the dim lamp light.

50 was fine, it was a relaxing spin to enjoy the view, while still being safe. I suspect after this trial of measures, it will revert to 50 again.

Effects

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118718144#Comment_118718144

It was the same with people on the coast road at Sandymount. It was more dangerous, as drivers would lose concentration travelling that slow. And another guy who said cars aren't designed to drive that slow, and it would break their engines. 🤣

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118718183#Comment_118718183

I used to think like that. It suited my views at the time but in reality it feels unnatural because you simply don't want to drive at that speed.

Saying that, there is nothing natural about driving so I guess that it is correct to claim that driving at X speed is unnatural.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118718184#Comment_118718184

With climate change looming, it is believed that many urban limits will be reduced soon enough. However, with a muppet like O'Donovan in charge, I can't see the park limit staying at 30km/h

Flinty997

A limit that's mostly never enforced is meaningless.

I look forward to seeing the speed data from the park over the last 12 months.

Appropriate Speed Limits

The selection of the speed limit for any particular section of a road type is an exercise in weighing the objectives of safety and operational efficiency. The operational efficiency is measured by travel time and the safety level, measured by the incidence of crashes and resulting injuries and fatalities with consideration of the road function

I'd like to see the stats they used to come up with the limits here.

Is there even one pedestrian crossing on the Ave anywhere?

Hurrache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118718183#Comment_118718183

You mightn't have heard, but it's unnatural to drive, full stop.

Seth Brundle

A limit that's mostly never enforced is meaningless.

I look forward to seeing the speed data from the park over the last 12 months.

If there are next to no speed checks than any data from the few that are there is likley to be meaningless.

I'd like to see the stats they used to come up with the limits here.

Are you looking for speeding related stats or carbon emissions stats or noise pollution stats or what?

Is there even one pedestrian crossing on the Ave anywhere?

There is not which is why drivers should be even more careful as pedestrians may be crossing almost anywhere

Flinty997

Proper Data stats on traffic speed in the park over the last 12 months.

Flinty997

The lack of pedestrian crossing makes a mockery of any pretence of safety. They could even have a few ramps to slow cars down if they were serious. They've had those ridiculous ones on the north road for a decade or so.

Effects

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118718183#Comment_118718183

So you're saying the road needs to be changed so that it's more suitable to 30 kph. Like just make it a bunch of chicanes with speed bumps and zebra crossings every 100 metres or so.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118718407#Comment_118718407

Only if you actually want speeds to drop.

Other wise you can pretend by putting signs up and not enforcing them.

Flinty997

I wonder what the highest speeding ever recorded in the park was.

https://jrnl.ie/5698229

https://jrnl.ie/5698229

Excluding actual racing obviously.

Hurrache

Road traffic enforcement, country wide, is a joke. The whole idea of a national slow down day, yesterday, makes a mockery of the gardai.

Flinty997

Maybe they need more signs....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118718407#Comment_118718407

No, I'm saying that 30KM is a ridiculous speed to drive at unless you are in a housing estate or somewhere similar.

I don't see why they had to change it at all. If anything it should have been increased to 60.

But as mentioned, it won't be enforced or obeyed anyways.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118718496#Comment_118718496

Well it's a park. They don't want anyone driving down the middle of it.

Which is why they are directing all the drivers down the middle of it.

"This is the way"

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118718496#Comment_118718496

It won’t be obeyed, but maybe speeds from from 60 to 40 or 45.

gerrykeegan

I was running in the park this morning, it was funny to see one driver observing the 30km which resulted in about 15 cars all wedged behind them forced to do them same, all it takes is one. On the way back out I saw exactly the same thing happen.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118718568#Comment_118718568

Maybe they could hire that driver to do that all day. Maybe they could call him something like a ranger, park ranger or something....

Maybe a couple of speed cameras disguised as deer. Maybe that would too dear for the opw though.

Seth Brundle

Looking on Twitter just now, it seems that Pat Kenny had former AA lobbyist Conor Faughnan on his show.

Faughnan apparently claimed that the 30km/h limit risks risk undermining the 'credibility of speed limits'. Apparently a slower speed limit is not necessarily the safer one. Somehow!?!?!

Seemingly Kenny went on to say "When the speed limit is only 30km/hr, the temptation to be on your mobile phone may be overwhelming"

Flinty997

Lots of things are counterintuitive.

There are studies that show inappropriate speed limits have a net negative effect. But generally higher speed has worse outcomes. But not always, motorways are generally are high speed but low accident rates.

But to know what's appropriate you have to have lots of statistical data and engineering studies. Sometimes even with that there some other reason to set the limit.

However in Ireland there doesn't seem to be any method to it.

Seth Brundle

There are studies that show inappropriate speed limits have a net negative effect. But generally higher speed has worse outcomes. But not always, motorways are generally are high speed but low accident rates.

Higher speed always has a worse outcome. Motorways are simply designed to remove the vast majority of risks that exist on non-motorway roads and therefore they allow for a higher speed limit. However, a collision on a motorway at speed will always be worse than a the exact same collision at a lower speed.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118718861#Comment_118718861

100%.

Not the Plank Kenny comment obviously.

Phil.x

Comedy central opw, complete laughing stock.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/phoenix-park-bus-route-delayed-as-gates-found-to-be-too-narrow-1.4815672

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118719244#Comment_118719244

Not really. the route was chosen, its been found to be unsuitable, and now a solution needs to be found.

The solution will be new buses, a new route or new infrastructure

Not a big deal and stuff like this happens in literally every project

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118719157#Comment_118719157

Roads with 20 and 30mph speed limits are MORE dangerous than motorways, say experts

Motorways are the safest roadways in the State despite the higher speeds travelled on them, according to new research from University College Cork. The most dangerous are three-lane roads (those with a climbing lane) and undivided two lane roads, the study concludes

In the process they discovered that there is serious under-reporting of accidents, something that made the project difficult. While almost all fatal accidents are reported, many injury accidents, especially those involving minor injuries, are not.

But what would they know.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118719357#Comment_118719357

I'm not sure what you're getting at. I made the point that higher speed always has a worse outcome when you compare the same incident at a lower speed. I made this claim in response to you saying "But generally higher speed has worse outcomes. But not always". Speed will always make an incident's outcome worse.

What you are doing is comparing different road types and different incident types as well as different speed types to prove wronog something I never said.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118719355#Comment_118719355

Considering they've refused for years to make changes to the gates for modern practicality or safety, I can't see them doing it for this.

Last time they had a bus the OPW caused caused so much gridlock with traffic that the bus was unable to move around the park.

At least we have a cycle lane now. Which fits nicely into the historic and natural aesthetic they've refused to compromise on with the gates.