Parking and traffic in Phoenix Park

Hurrache

It's always funny, and extremely common, to see how irrational people get when it comes to how they feel downtrodden and harshly treated because they think car drivers are an abused segment of society just because of the Green Party, which often have no hand in what they're crying about.

It's even more funny that they think things will change if/when they're out of government.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118723782#Comment_118723782

Not so much.

miamee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118724127#Comment_118724127

I've noted the same, Google Maps will continue directing me out the nearest gate(s) from when I enter the park rather than to go straight down Chesterfield Avenue (which I do anyway).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118724673#Comment_118724673

Neither google maps nor Waze direct me though the park to get from islandbridge to the motorway even though it’s the fastest route. I always assumed that there had been an instruction to google and Waze from the authorities to try to avoid directing people down Chesterfield. It only routes me through when I am literally at the gates

(I know you can make that request to google as relatives of mine living in a Cotswold village did it successfully)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118724297#Comment_118724297

Just because there's little support doesn't mean it won't go ahead. There was little support for 30k limits in estates when that was first introduced.

The 30k limits are coming

Flinty997

30k limits are tokenism here. We don't enforce them.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118724709#Comment_118724709

Its only doing this very recently. It has always shown me routes though the park previously.

Even now it still does. But only the side roads that ironically are now not possible. But it's avoiding Chesterfield. It's like someone has flagged the main road as closed.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118724208#Comment_118724208

I don't think anyone is blaming the Greens for what's going on in the park, just observing that Ciaran Cuffe is being a bit of a d*ck about it.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118724753#Comment_118724753

In fairness, we don't really enforce any road traffic laws to any beneficial extent.

In terms of the 30km/h limit not being safe to drive, etc. - if you listened to or read about the Oireachtas Transport Committee yesterday, you'd have heard Lorraine D’Arcy from TUD make the case for 30km/h limits and how roads are overdesigned for the safety and convenience of people driving and not for all users.

An increasing focus on driver safety by car and road designers has had the unintended consequence of making roads less safe for pedestrians and other vulnerable road users, the Oireachtas transport committee has heard.

Lorraine D’Arcy, of the School of Transport Engineering, Environment and Planning at TU Dublin, was one of a range of expert speakers who said the State’s default speed limit should be 30km/h in built-up areas.

She said practices such as “overdesigning roads to increase driver comfort” and European ratings for cars which place an emphasis on the safety of those in the vehicle “have left communities dealing with an increased threat of larger and faster vehicles on their streets”.

Ms D’Arcy said residential streets “used to be places to congregate and play, main streets used to be meeting places and commercial hubs”.

She added: “Both are now becoming devoid of human interactions because of the dominance of the private vehicle. This not only has implications for local commerce, but also the health and wellbeing of our population.”

Ms D’Arcy said the measurement of safe streets should not be just how many people are killed or injured “but a multi criteria assessment that includes the number of people walking and cycling in an area”.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/streets-devoid-of-human-interactions-due-to-dominance-of-vehicles-committee-told-1.4816871

jlang

On the subject of further infrastructural change that might help enforce the 30km/h limit on Chesterfield Avenue.

As they have now painted a pair of white lines with the new rows of wands denoting the shoulder cycle lane, I think a third parallel line taking an equivalent amount off the driving lane on each side would be another low impact way to reduce the apparent lane width to make it easier for drivers to naturally regulate their speed.

Or multiple or wider white lines or hatching down the middle of the road? It would also make the driving lanes visibly narrower and cause drivers to naturally slow and/or think twice before aggressive overtaking while still allowing running races, etc to use the width of the road without having runners stumbling over a median/kerb. Or at least as much of the width as is left now after the installed cycle lane wands.

Spanish Eyes

Chesterfield Ave should never have been the through way that it is. Bus only. Traffic should have been directed around North Road and Upper Glen, and cars banned from Chesterfield except for access to US Embassy and Aras,

I am sure someone will tell me why this could not possibly have been considered.

daymobrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118723913#Comment_118723913

It's bizarre for two reasons 1) Chesterfield Ave is open (though, as some think, it might be flagged as closed) and 2) Upper Glen Road is closed but it's directing cars that route. I'll submit a report too.

daymobrew

With respect to Google Maps routing, check out going from the Mount Hybla Nursing Home (off White's Road) to Farmleigh by bike.

For bikes it sends you clockwise past Myo's and in through Castleknock Gates. For a car is send you down White's Road, through the (closed) gates.

I've been trying to get this latter route working for bikes but they reject my reports, presumably believing that bikes cannot get by the gates.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725264#Comment_118725264

There is no logic or consistency to the decisions in the park. They want cars out. But frequently make cars do even longer routes through it.

It has become a main route and connector is because no alternative was ever planned or developed. Any possible alternate routes have been throttled to be slower than park. But yet they keep building more housing that will come through the park. But a fraction of the public transport to support it.

Any suggestion of a ring road to direct traffic away from of the majority of the park is shot down.

They normally close part of Chesterfield Ave during the weekends in the summer months. I guess thats dead in the water now.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118724730#Comment_118724730

Two words, water charges.

In a Republic, laws that do not have popular acceptance do not last long.

The people in cities accept the logic of 30 km/h in side roads and estates, not on primary, secondary and regional roads within those cities, as Dublin City Council tried and failed to do.

Even if they were introduced, the Courts would so soon be clogged up with contested charges from the 90%+ non-compliance that it would be referred back to the Councils and the legislature quick smart.

Fortunately, speed limit bye-laws are one of the few powers in the hands of Councillors and they seem to have a good handle on the public mood on this.

em_cat

They we’re, however given the size & the overtaking RR it presented a danger, enough of one that he was actually stopped by a Garda and was issued a ticket. I was taking the dogs for their walk so the Garda tracked me down as I was parking to let me know.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725971#Comment_118725971

As someone who (IIRC) claimed to be an urban planner, your post is quite disappointing to read. Thankfully I know that not all MRUP graduates think like you.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725264#Comment_118725264

Because its far less safe to direct significant traffic around the narrow and winding peripheral roads, than it is to keep it on the wide Avenue with the long sightlines and the best lighting.

I'd have thought that much was obvious.

As well as this, people always seem to forget there are 3,000 jobs located within the Park as well as huge visitor attractions. The Zoo, on a busy day, can get thousands through the gates. There is a hospital, a school, the Ordnance Survey, civil defence HQ, Garda HQ, Garda stables etc.

Asking for no traffic on Chesterfield Avenue is just absolutely naive and its never going to happen.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118726066#Comment_118726066

I'm a realist, I've never pretended to be anything else. I never said I was MRUP either.

Without public support for policy in this Country, we will get nowhere. We are seeing the results of a massive disconnect in the ideal of a Government and academia designed society and one acceptable to people in their daily lives. The priorities are totally at a odds, and while I cannot do anything to relieve your disappointment, I think you would accept that Irish people generally don't do well with policy that they are told is 'for their own good'.

Seth Brundle

Without public support for policy in this Country, we will get nowhere.

So in terms of the climate crisis, we should do nothing inconvenient because the greens are **** and I like driving short journeys, etc.

Spanish Eyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118726613#Comment_118726613

Every job you mention can be accessed via peripheral roads. The Zoo should be moved out of the Park to a brownfield site, use Lottery money to help do it, instantly thousands of cars and parking places no longer needed. This is being done re Bristol Zoo in UK, similar traffic issues. Garda HQ should be moved also, it is not suitable premises for a public park at all. The building is impressive though and could be used for other things surely.

Chesterfield should not be a through road, I didn't say it should be completely closed. Access to peripheral routes could be maintained. There is a lot of closed thinking regarding improvements. Not saying mine are ideal either, but they could have been considered and reasons given as to why not.

Larbre34

You lost the room at "the Zoo should be moved out of the Park to a brownfield site."

Please stop talking nonsense.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118726613#Comment_118726613

But ironically yet that's exactly what they do when they close a section of Chesterfield Ave every busy weekend in the summer.

Also ironically all the facilities you list have access to perimeter roads and either don't have direct access to Chesterfield Ave or don't require it. Getting to them solely from the perimeter roads dramatically shorten car journeys to these facilities.

All recent iniatives have done the opposite, lengthened car journeys in the park. Which would seem the opposite of the stated aims.

I wouldn't see an issue with moving the zoo to a purpose built zoo on a huge site somewhere else. It's a lovely area for it, and I realise there is a lot of history there. But they are very constrained for size. Mary McAleese was president when some of the Aras was given to the zoo to extend. It was very small before that.

A bigger area could make for a really great zoo, with plenty of room somewhere else.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118726946#Comment_118726946

to be fair (and I posted same) Bristol Zoo is the 4th or 5th oldest in the world, was in a historic part of town since the early 1800s (right on Clifton Down), but was suffering parking and congestion problems. The highly emotive decision was taken to move it. And is in a better larger, more modern and more accessible location for all, and a better environment for the animals

I think it is absolutely an equivalent to Dublin zoo

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118726732#Comment_118726732

No, but the focus of the Country is on the wrong stuff.

We are not investing in mass public transport in the cities quickly enough.

Metro should be under construction, out to Knocklyon, not Charlemont.

The original Dart+ which envisaged the Pearse Street hub and underground City centre route should be under construction.

Luas to Finglas, Lucan and Bray should all be under construction.

24 Hour trunk route bus services should all be in place.

The move to promote repurposing for City Centre housing is 20 years behind.

A model for lifelong co-operative apartment living in the cities is 20 years behind.

The sourcing of alternative energy is also about 20 years behind. There is no ambition there.

We shouldn't be starting with the inconvenient stuff, we should be starting with the inspirational stuff and letting the inconvenient stuff melt away as the new structure of City living naturally opens itself up to it, by obviating the need for private cars and by making the whole City navigable in one hour by seamless and comfortable public alternatives.

Regarding the zoo, I think if they moved the polo ground to elsewhere in the park, it would have all the space it would need for the next 100 years.

Spanish Eyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118726946#Comment_118726946

A perfect example of closed thinking with no rebuttal or reply. There is absolutely no reason why Dublin zoo could not be moved out of the Park in due course. A lot of the current parking and access issues are down to the Zoo. There was an opportunity for a massive overhaul to the way the park works for the public but as I said, closed thinking, what will the public think? Just do it already and move everything that is not necessary out of it. Keep the US Ambassador's Residence, the Aras, the hospital. Move everything else out and repurpose the lovely buildings that we all pay for but have no access to. A public park is no place for any of them, including the aZoo.

Seth Brundle

A lot of the current parking and access issues are down to the Zoo.

I would say that the parking issues are not down to the location of the zoo but down to the sense of entitlement we have created where most people believe they have a right to drive right to their destination.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118727158#Comment_118727158

Jesus Christ the obtuseness.

Have you sense of history, of heritage?

The Park, without all those places you list, is just a field!

Let's move Dublin Castle out beyond the Airport, let's put Dáil Éireann in Athy. Let's ask Trinity College to decamp to Carrickmines so we can put high speed bikes lanes from Pearse Street to Dame Street.

The Zoo is there 191 years. The Viceregal Lodge is there 270 years. Deerfield opened the same year as the United States became independent.

What you're saying is total and absolute nonsense and if you suggested it seriously to Dublin people you'd be lucky to get away with your hide intact.

Can we stop talking stupid now please.