Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII Read OP For Mod Warnings

Widdensushi · 30-06-2021 08:38AM

Relax brah wrote: »

It’s disappointing for many but let’s be honest comparing ourselves to other countries is abit ridiculous - our drinking culture is the real issue. It’s a lack of trust from the government and you can’t blame them, anyone who frequents Dublin City centre will know this

I am guessing you don't travel much?

Red Silurian · 30-06-2021 08:39AM

plastic glass wrote: »

What I find surprising is that the opposition hasn’t really come out in opposition of this. They are talking more about opposing the vaccine passport to dine in than anything.
I reckon they will have to allow antigen tests. That will be the compromise
Crazy that we are opening travel before indoor dining. Absolutely crazy. Things like this are going to push semi normal people to the extreme right. Or left

Haven't they?

SF: https://twitter.com/MaryLouMcDonald/status/1409937375493505032
Labour: https://twitter.com/TheHardShoulder/status/1409942240521117704

Remember - all political parties have a by-election to fight on the 8th of July so news from the opposition on other issues might be slow

Could anybody in the Dublin Bay South constituency confirm if this is being discussed on the doorstep?

ThunbergsAreGo · 30-06-2021 08:39AM

greensausage wrote: »

Of course he doesn't, he seems to have at least some common sense around the whole lot as we've seen when he publicly disagreed with nephet in the past.

Not much he can do now, Tony has made his decision, MM is just going to do whatever he says so unless Leo fancies collapsing the government over it he's going to have to toe the line over it.

He can bring down the government aa you say though.... And there is no way Martin let's it come to that.

Leo is as culpable as the rest of them, which is a shame as he's the only one I had a smidgen of hope for.

All TDs should have had a free vote in this one, out the fence sitters. This effects every community

ThunbergsAreGo · 30-06-2021 08:40AM

Red Silurian wrote: »

Haven't they?

SF: https://twitter.com/MaryLouMcDonald/status/1409937375493505032
Labour: https://twitter.com/TheHardShoulder/status/1409942240521117704

Remember - all political parties have a by-election to fight on the 8th of July so news from the opposition on other issues might be slow

Could anybody in the Dublin Bay South constituency confirm if this is being discussed on the doorstep?

So are either of them for or against opening indoor dining?

Fence sitting and bluster, and I agree with both of them. But neither have a position on indoor dining

_Kaiser_ · 30-06-2021 08:40AM

paw patrol wrote: »

he doesn't believe it himself - he knows NPHET are insane.

Do they (FF) have more dirt him ? Remember he took Tony H to task and then the trouble with the leaks came. It was well known he agreed to pipe down in return for FF support and hasn't strayed much since from the Michael Martin line.

if he had any balls he'd put it up to Martin or the FF party - and threaten to take down the government.

Time to actually act or time for a heave against MM within FF- hopefully the FF back benchers know it's time to save their seats.

I know I've been banging the anti restriction drum for a year but yesterday was momentous in terms of utter gob****ery and I'm seeing a huge change in attitudes which is good to see.

Leo will sit tight. Never forget that Leo is all about Leo, and even though he's well aware of the complete disconnect from reality in the "expert" NPHET report and the public anger, he won't risk the damage that would result to himself and FG if he brings down the Government. He probably remembers how long it took him to get re-elected himself last time out.

Remember too that he is the one who (along with that other clown Enda) led us to this position by making FF electable again in the first place, and the one who agreed to go into coalition with them - albeit because both were more afraid of SF in Government (the one thing I agree with them on), than maintaining the pretence of being different parties.

As usual of course, Eamon Ryan and his Greens are too busy trying to hold their party together and dreaming up new taxes in the guise of fantasy policies to be part of the discussion.

If it's going to happen it'll be the backbenchers and a heave against Martin - something that was already only a matter of time, but delayed by Covid.

paw patrol · 30-06-2021 08:43AM

Relax brah wrote: »

That’s simply not true.

Must have dreamt all my travel and the nitelife
apologies.

paw patrol · 30-06-2021 08:46AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Leo will sit tight. Never forget that Leo is all about Leo, and even though he's well aware of the complete disconnect from reality in the "expert" NPHET report and the public anger, he won't risk the damage that would result to himself and FG if he brings down the Government. He probably remembers how long it took him to get re-elected himself last time out.

Remember too that he is the one who (along with that other clown Enda) led us to this position by making FF electable again in the first place, and the one who agreed to go into coalition with them - albeit because both were more afraid of SF in Government (the one thing I agree with them on), than maintaining the pretence of being different parties.

As usual of course, Eamon Ryan and his Greens are too busy trying to hold their party together and dreaming up new taxes in the guise of fantasy policies to be part of the discussion.

If it's going to happen it'll be the backbenchers and a heave against Martin - something that was already only a matter of time, but delayed by Covid.

I can't argue with that.

My hope for leo is that he will see the mood change and bet on being hailed a hero for get rid of MM and NPHET.

But as you said leo is for leo - that is what drives him.
And his eye is on the future as an EU , UN or World Economic Forum overlord.

Relax brah · 30-06-2021 08:47AM

Widdensushi wrote: »

I am guessing you don't travel much?

My job involved 4 days a week travelling Europe, I work in multicultural tech company and have done for the last 10 years.

I can assure you, the Irish drinking culture as a whole is on another level compared to most of Europe.

Daz_ · 30-06-2021 08:50AM

Relax brah wrote: »

My job involved 4 days a week travelling Europe, I work in multicultural tech company and have done for the last 10 years.

I can assure you, the Irish drinking culture as a whole is on another level compared to most of Europe.

Just because Europe doesn’t have our same bar culture don’t assume there isn’t a lot of drinking going on , because there is plenty of it in their homes .

hamburgham · 30-06-2021 08:51AM

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

So are either of them for or against opening indoor dining?

Fence sitting and bluster, and I agree with both of them. But neither have a position on indoor dining

Absolutely. Waiting to see which way the wind is blowing.

bucketybuck · 30-06-2021 08:51AM

Relax brah wrote: »

I can assure you, the Irish drinking culture as a whole is on another level compared to most of Europe.

Yes we know, it is the only one still closed.

is_that_so · 30-06-2021 08:51AM

paw patrol wrote: »

I can't argue with that.

My hope for leo is that he will see the mood change and bet on being hailed a hero for get rid of MM and NPHET.

But as you said leo is for leo - that is what drives him.
And his eye is on the future as an EU , UN or World Economic Forum overlord.

It is a Donnelly purview to dissolve NPHET. Leo will get rid of MM in 2023 when they move the deckchairs around.

Ballynally · 30-06-2021 08:52AM

Green Party minister of state Ossian Smyth told RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta the Government would be asking an independent body such as the World Health Organisation or the European Centre for Disease Control to review Nphet’s data on the Delta variant.

“We will be looking at it again independently on the figures outside of Nphet. We will ask them [an independent authority] to look at the figures independently,” he said.

However, his comments came only hours after the Taoiseach ruled out reviewing
Nphet’s figures.

“The idea of setting up alternative, different pools of advices and researches, would lead to incoherence in the short term,” Mr Martin said.

Martin cannot accept other people looking at the data because it would mean he'd have no confidence in his CMO and would need to sack him (via Donnelly).
But i can see the pressure mounting from within the cabinet and elsewhere.
MM is in trouble. A decision has to be made both on the confidence in the CMO and what happens to the lifting of restrictions.
If the CMO goes, NPHET cannot possibly hold on to the same numbers and keep their credibility. If the CMO stays the same applies to MM.

30-06-2021 08:54AM

Call me cynical, but I don't think it's just spinelessness on the politicians' parts. It is an in-your-face dereliction of decision-making and leadership duties.

And it suits the politicians down to the ground. Relying on NPHET allows them to relieve themselves of decision-making responsibility (and distance themselves from the consequences of course).

"What could we do? Our hands were tied. When NPHET told us that x, y, z we had to act." etc. etc. etc.

Red Silurian · 30-06-2021 08:55AM

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

So are either of them for or against opening indoor dining?

Fence sitting and bluster, and I agree with both of them. But neither have a position on indoor dining

To me it looks like both Labour and Sinn Fein are for the opening of indoor hospitality.

Solidarity seem to be the only crowd supporting the Govt position on this one using the argument that none of them are doctors so the public health doctors (NPHET) should be trusted on this and that opening indoors would put many of their lower paid voters at risk

Notably, no political party, government or opposition is arguing against the NPHET figures. SF/Lab are simply saying it's an acceptable level of death with the Govt and Solidarity saying it isn't

Reading between the lines I think SF and Solidarity have differing opinions in a strategy to get as many #1 and #2 votes as possible..

daydorunrun · 30-06-2021 08:55AM

Went to bed angry, woke up angry. Simply cannot believe after all the bull**** of ‘we’re all in this together’ over the last 18 months - the powers that be (and the government!) are going to introduce medical apartheid into this country. I am seriously doubtful I have the stomach to grow old here.
No government, no opposition, no hope.

facehugger99 · 30-06-2021 08:55AM

Red Silurian wrote: »

Haven't they?

SF: https://twitter.com/MaryLouMcDonald/status/1409937375493505032

Remember - all political parties have a by-election to fight on the 8th of July so news from the opposition on other issues might be slow

Could anybody in the Dublin Bay South constituency confirm if this is being discussed on the doorstep?

Is this the same SF that wanted more restrictions or a different version?

Or are they trying their usual fence-sitting and ditch-hurling?

No doubt it'll be lapped up by the brain-dead morons who vote for them either way.

The state of politics in this country has been been worse - it's a truly depressing landscape.

There is no political party worth voting for.

is_that_so · 30-06-2021 08:56AM

Ballynally wrote: »

Green Party minister of state Ossian Smyth told RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta the Government would be asking an independent body such as the World Health Organisation or the European Centre for Disease Control to review Nphet’s data on the Delta variant.

“We will be looking at it again independently on the figures outside of Nphet. We will ask them [an independent authority] to look at the figures independently,” he said.

However, his comments came only hours after the Taoiseach ruled out reviewing
Nphet’s figures.

“The idea of setting up alternative, different pools of advices and researches, would lead to incoherence in the short term,” Mr Martin said.

Martin cannot accept other people looking at the data because it would mean he'd have no confidence in his CMO and would need to sack him.
But i can see the pressure mounting from within the cabinet and elsewhere.
MM is in trouble. A decision has to be made both on the confidence in the CMO and what happens to the lifting of restrictions.
If the CMO goes, NPHET cannot possibly hold on to the same numbers and keep their credibility. If the CMO stays the same applies to MM.

Well, they'd probably decline. By the time they got to it, we'd have another recommendation from NPHET so it would be pointless. It is something for the enquiry though, whenever that happens.

CruelSummer · 30-06-2021 08:58AM

Pathetic from Leo Varadkar.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1410141076871131143?s=21

Implying he ‘hopes it works out for U.K.’ as Ireland’s modelling forecasts all sorts of apocalyptic scenarios.
Used to support FG, not after this.

bear1 · 30-06-2021 09:00AM

I can't believe that we are waiting to see what happens in the UK.
A place which is far less restrictive and with a far higher population.
We are such a docile people.

Zebra3 · 30-06-2021 09:00AM

What difference does it make if the so-called opposition know in advance about the restrictions?

Whinging about irrelevant issues instead of doing their job.

ThunbergsAreGo · 30-06-2021 09:00AM

Red Silurian wrote: »

To me it looks like both Labour and Sinn Fein are for the opening of indoor hospitality. .

Where have they said this?

Apologies alot has gone on I probably missed this

30-06-2021 09:02AM

Phishnet wrote: »

You have taken an experimental vaccine under emergency provisions, you have given informed consent. Big Pharma has a letter of indemnity with the European Union.

So let’s be clear, should you grow a bushy tail in the morning due to the virus, I would rate your chances at 0% to successfully obtain damages from big Pharma or Government. Are you that naive to think this area has not been totally thought through?

Head off and do some research on the matter before responding.

You do realise there is such a thing as vicarious liability? I work directly with the vaccine roll out. There is no "waiver". There is informed consent, the same as if you are going for an operation.

gozunda · 30-06-2021 09:02AM

Klonker wrote: »

I'm sure the ECDC weren't talking about the country with the harshest restrictions not easing their restrictions when they made that analysis. Its very disingenuous of NPHET to put that in their letter to government and pretend it relates to Ireland. And it says more easing shouldn't happen until vulnerable are vaccinated. 2 weeks time everybody over 45 and all other vulnerable will have 2 doses if they want one, theres no reason shouldn't open restaurants fully in 2 weeks.

But which bit do you mean exactly ?

The probability that SARS-CoV-2 Delta VOC becomes rapidly dominant in the EU/EEA is considered very high.

Based on the estimated transmission advantage of the Delta variant, 70% of new SARS-CoV-2 infections in the EU/EEA as of early August are projected to be due to this variant. As a consequence, based on available evidence, there is a very high probability that there will be a surge of SARS-CoV-2 infections in the community. This assessment is based on information available to ECDC at the time of publication and the assessment.

Simulations show that there is a large risk associated with rapidly lifting NPIs (ie restrictions) in the presence of a more
transmissible variant. While a fast relaxation of NPI stringency could lead to a fast and significant increase in daily cases, hospitalisations, and deaths, keeping current NPI stringency, while continuing or even accelerating vaccination rollout to those most at risk of severe outcomes, can help keep them low. Under different scenarios and unless NPI measures are maintained, a high increase in both hospitalisations and deaths is possible (green and orange scenario in Figures 3, 5, 6), potentially reaching levels of last autumn if no additional measures are taken. Furthermore, entering autumn with such high incidence could pose an additional risk as school re-opening and
associated adult contact patterns together with climate factors, are expected to further increase transmission rates.

I think you'll find that ECDC report relates to the whole of the EU. And yup restrictions have been rolled back btw. Atm Germany, Portugal and Germany are way ahead with regard stringency measures overall atm.

But yeah I agree - once we have the bulk of people vaccinated - we're flying.

CRI0ST0IR · 30-06-2021 09:02AM

It's stupid to think now, that my girlfriend is fully vaccinated so she can sit in, eat and drink in a pub, but then I can't yet due to not in the age group. But I can still go into work every week and serve people inside but just can't sit down and have a drink?

What logic has gone into this idea at all...

Zebra3 · 30-06-2021 09:03AM

CRI0ST0IR wrote: »

It's stupid to think now, that my girlfriend is fully vaccinated so she can sit in, eat and drink in a pub, but then I can't yet due to not in the age group. But I can still go into work every week and serve people inside but just can't sit down and have a drink?

What logic has gone into this idea at all...

Get a younger lady!!

Relax brah · 30-06-2021 09:04AM

Zebra3 wrote: »

What difference does it make if the so-called opposition know in advance about the restrictions?

Whinging about irrelevant issues instead of doing their job.

Whinging about it on boards.ie will definitely fix the issues though lol

sydthebeat · 30-06-2021 09:06AM

CRI0ST0IR wrote: »

It's stupid to think now, that my girlfriend is fully vaccinated so she can sit in, eat and drink in a pub, but then I can't yet due to not in the age group. But I can still go into work every week and serve people inside but just can't sit down and have a drink?

What logic has gone into this idea at all...

You could go and catch covid, prove you got better..... Jobs an oxo

Widdensushi · 30-06-2021 09:07AM

Relax brah wrote: »

My job involved 4 days a week travelling Europe, I work in multicultural tech company and have done for the last 10 years.

I can assure you, the Irish drinking culture as a whole is on another level compared to most of Europe.

Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium, Latvia for example I couldn't believe how drunk people were, I think Denmark was the place it seemed most people were drunk, Norway, less people but they get themselves in a worse state, I have never been to Germany but they have a reputation for being the country where people drink the most, could you specify some countries for discussion where you think they drink less than irish people.

Tiredandcranky · 30-06-2021 09:09AM

normanoffside wrote: »

This guy Mark, a private citizen, has had the models for months through FOI and critiqued them. He Has been tagging journos etc.
Now public mood has turned against the models the Journos are saying the models are secret because they haven’t been doing their work as journalists all along. They haven't been asking questions.

It does seem that our own modelling is questionable at best. Bear in mind they also got it horribly wrong at Christmas, when they advised we could open up. The new variant was shown to account for only a portion of the errors in modelling predictions there.

However, we shouldn’t throw baby out with bath water. The ECDC modelling is also predicting spikes in August and are specifically recommending we actually increase efforts to keep social distancing in place for unvaxed people i.e. young people I.e. don’t open the pubs!

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII Read OP For Mod Warnings