Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

gozunda

Klonker wrote: »

I mean that they're not talking about the one or two countries that have all indoor closed, they're talking about the ones more open when they talk about further easing. Don't care what some stringency thing you link says, those countries are not as restrictive as Ireland and even when you do need a vaccine pass every single country accepts an antigen test too. But NPHET are against that, they have no leg to stand to now say we need vaccine certs.

I'm fairly certain they're including all EU countries in that report. They would have called out any exceptions if they thought it relevant. The stringency index looks at all countries not just Ireland btw and is based on 9 different criteria. But if you disagree maybe take it up with them. Vaccine certs and how they are applied in individual countries are a whole other caboodle.

Fandymo

Phishnet wrote: »

All Covid 19 vaccines are currently UNAPPROVED by the relevant regulatory authorities , but you know this.

For other readers of this thread, the European Medicines Agency has issued an emergency use authorization to permit the use of the unapproved vaccines for active immunization in individuals of 12 to 18 years of age, depending on what jab they opt for, hence you sign a disclaimer.

I’ve had 2 Astra-Zeneca jabs. I didn’t have to sign anything. I think your making stuff up in your head, or believing FB nonsense.

Jinglejangle69

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Let's get one thing straight. No restaurant or pub will be refusing your business based on vaccination status. No Garda can ask you your vaccination or health status.

Anything is voluntary. And importantly, if a pub or restaurant refuses you because of your vaccination status, you will have a glorious civil case against them.

Just said on RTE it was checked and isn't illegal.

seansouth36

It's obvious the "vaccine pass" is simply a diversionary tactic by the government. In two weeks they can claim the pass "is not ready" and therefore indoor dining/drinking can't be opened for the vaccinated. The conversation then shifts to the vaccine pass rather than the fact the pubs are closed; PR bolloxology and the pliant media fall for it hook, line and sinker.

Fandymo

Phishnet wrote: »

The person who vaccinated you read over certain declarations and asked you did you understand same. He/she then become the witness that you were given the proper advices and warnings. Speeds up the process.

Read the six pages document on HSE.IE

CONSENT FOR VACCINATION FOR COVID-19 GUIDING PRINCIPLES

Want a hand with those goalposts. I was asked the same questions I was asked when I got the flu vaccine.

Ballynally

namloc1980 wrote: »

The Green Cert regulation gives Member States the rights to impose their own restrictions as they deem fit and to "step out" of the Green Cert process. This is because health policy is ultimately a Member State competency in the EU and not an EU competency:

13. Although this Regulation is without prejudice to Member States’ competence to impose restrictions to free movement, in accordance with Union law, to limit the spread of SARS-CoV-2, it should contribute to facilitating the gradual lifting of such restrictions in a coordinated manner whenever possible, in accordance with Recommendation (EU) 2020/1475.

55. To ensure coordination, the Commission and the other Member States should be informed when a Member State requires holders of certificates to undergo, after entry into its territory, quarantine or self-isolation or to be tested for SARS-CoV-2 infection, or if it imposes other restrictions on holders of such certificates

Don't bet against us being an outlier on the Green Cert like we are with indoor hospitality come the 19th July.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32021R0953&qid=1625042455003&from=EN

The way i see it is that the government cannot provide a good enough reason to delay the july19 date f the DCC to the EU because the scare modelling has to be seen in a EU context and the numbers in Ireland do not indicate it being an outlier atm. Projections are not good enough as a selling point.
Real data do make countries revise their policy regarding certain areas but they still will be able to use the DCC as an agreed method.
Legally they could delay but they wont imo.

Supercell

Dont know why they are making a big deal of this being hard to implement, show vaccination card and some form of picture id confirming name (drivers license etc), done.
Not exactly rocket science and if it helps encourage some people to step away from the Facebook nonsense and get the jab then all the better.

suicide_circus

bear1 wrote: »

I can't believe that we are waiting to see what happens in the UK.
A place which is far less restrictive and with a far higher population.
We are such a docile people.

We are a profoundly conservative and subservient nation

timmyntc

Supercell wrote: »

Dont know why they are making a big deal of this being hard to implement, show vaccination card and some form of picture id confirming name (drivers license etc), done.
Not exactly rocket science and if it helps encourage some people to step away from the Facebook nonsense and get the jab then all the better.

Vaccination cards can be faked
Also how do you track proof of recovery?

Quags

Supercell wrote: »

Dont know why they are making a big deal of this being hard to implement, show vaccination card and some form of picture id confirming name (drivers license etc), done.
Not exactly rocket science and if it helps encourage some people to step away from the Facebook nonsense and get the jab then all the better.

But people do not want the vaccine and to be basically bullied into it so you can enjoy indoor dining sounds very Nazism to me. This thing isnt going anyway soon and while it will kill people so will the flu and numerous other things so why cant people just get on with their lives and if you feel personally your not comfortable eating indoors with the non vaccination ppl then Im sure some places will accept the golden vac card

timmyntc

timmyntc wrote: »

Vaccination cards can be faked
Also how do you track proof of recovery?

They have a database of the vaccinated.

Surely, it can't be that hard to harness that data into some sort of digital pass / coupled with ID.

I've no idea how you can prove if someone had COVID-19 and recovered last month, for example. A positive antibody test? Unlikely, as they aren't too reliable.

Furthermore, it should be a conscious choice to opt to take a vaccine. The idea that, for all intents and purposes, it's made mandatory is a gross violation of civil liberties.

Is it the case that pubs can serve outdoors which is illegal and guards turning a blind eye too for the past few weeks, but when it comes to serving indoors which they do have a legal right too there not allowed do it?

bear1

suicide_circus wrote: »

We are a profoundly conservative and subservient nation

Chicken****s you mean.

Busi_Girl08

timmyntc wrote: »

Vaccination cards can be faked
Also how do you track proof of recovery?

And what kind of onus will be placed on hospitality business owners for missing fakes.

namloc1980

Ballynally wrote: »

The way i see it is that the government cannot provide a good enough reason to delay the july19 date f the DCC to the EU because the scare modelling has to be seen in a EU context and the numbers in Ireland do not indicate it being an outlier atm. Projections are not good enough as a selling point.
Real data do make countries revise their policy regarding certain areas but they still will be able to use the DCC as an agreed method.
Legally they could delay but they wont imo.

They don't have to provide a good enough excuse. They don't have to provide any excuse - just notify the EU if they intend placing additional restrictions. I was 100% of the belief that travel on the 19th would go ahead but after what happened yesterday I think NPHET will deliver more doom and gloom and try to twist the governments arm into stalling on the green cert. Let's see what happens.

Fandymo

Relax brah wrote: »

My job involved 4 days a week travelling Europe, I work in multicultural tech company and have done for the last 10 years.

I can assure you, the Irish drinking culture as a whole is on another level compared to most of Europe.

How come we only rank mid table in Europe per capita?? And falling steadily since 2010??

OwenM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

On NPHET and Tony, I've been saying since last year that there was a risk of public health zealots using the pandemic as an excuse to try and socially engineer the country out of its love of the sesh, in a "sure we may as well replace the plumbing while we've the floor open for electrical re-wiring" kind of mission creep. I don't think that's a conspiracy theory at all. Holohan is on the record as wanting coercive measures to tackle Ireland's binge drinking culture from many years ago. It's not a massive stretch to assume a "kill two birds with one stone" mentality among some in his group, even if they'll never say it out loud.

https://twitter.com/LVADublinPubs/status/1409432500804403201

Stormyteacup

Ballynally wrote: »

The way i see it is that the government cannot provide a good enough reason to delay the july19 date f the DCC to the EU because the scare modelling has to be seen in a EU context and the numbers in Ireland do not indicate it being an outlier atm. Projections are not good enough as a selling point.
Real data do make countries revise their policy regarding certain areas but they still will be able to use the DCC as an agreed method.
Legally they could delay but they wont imo.

They fully intend on delaying digital cert, reason cited will be that we are still restricted nationally with no indoor dining & more - therefore we can’t allow foreign visitors without making entry heavily restricted, which will ultimately make it not worth the bother for tourists and outgoing holidaymakers.

Responder XY

Don't get the hate for a Covid pass concept - think it's a good idea, can leverage the EU's DCC and it's already built. It's no more onerous on a restaurant/bar than checking ID for underage drinking.

The only issue I have is that it limits those who haven't had an option to get a vaccine yet or for some reason can't. That isn't fair and with Antigen testing isn't necessary. This needs to be added to valid methods of being allowed to avail of indoor activities.

RobitTV

This 'covid pass' discussion is irrelevant to me. When indoor dining resumes, pubs and restaurants aren't going to be turning away individuals based on their vaccination status. Do you really think they are going to deny entry to paying customers after 16 months of not earning a penny?

This isn't going to happen folks. The government will introduce the 'covid pass' and then it will slowly become useless and the pubs will not ask for it. They haven't got the time or resources to be arguing with people over some silly pass (If they aren't vaccinated yet)

Antigen testing is the way forward, like Denmark.

Jinglejangle69

Good point there about bookies open and packed all day with 20 people st a time.

No social distancing and masks half on.

Ballynally

right now the industry is against proof of vaccination and i suspect the goverment to cave in once it becomes clear it cannot be enforced.
If the government insist and put it in law via emergency legislation the industry still wont implement it. Not enough officers to check.
At some point LFTs (antigen tests) will be introduced which the industry might want to use. It will go from enforced to suggested as a method of proof imo.

namloc1980

Responder XY wrote: »

Don't get the hate for a Covid pass concept - think it's a good idea, can leverage the EU's DCC and it's already built. It's no more onerous on a restaurant/bar than checking ID for underage drinking.

The only issue I have is that it limits those who haven't had an option to get a vaccine yet or for some reason can't. That isn't fair and with Antigen testing isn't necessary. This needs to be added to valid methods of being allowed to avail of indoor activities.

NPHET and Tony say no to antigen tests so those are a non runner. If the corona pass is just a vaccine pass it is discriminatory full stop and hasn't a hope of going ahead.

Oscar Bravo

RobitTv has pretty much summed it up in the post above.

namloc1980

RobitTV wrote: »

This 'covid pass' discussion is irrelevant to me. When indoor dining resumes, pubs and restaurants aren't going to be turning away individuals based on their vaccination status. Do you really think they are going to deny entry to paying customers after 16 months of not earning a penny?

This isn't going to happen folks. The government will introduce the 'covid pass' and then it will slowly become useless and the pubs will not ask for it. They haven't got the time or resources to be arguing with people over some silly pass (If they aren't vaccinated yet)

Antigen testing is the way forward, like Denmark.

Absolutely except NPHET, Tony and Philip Nolan have an ideological hatred of antigen tests. Nolan called them "snake oil" at one point. We're goosed with these lads in charge.

is_that_so

CruelSummer wrote: »

Pathetic from Leo Varadkar.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1410141076871131143?s=21

Implying he ‘hopes it works out for U.K.’ as Ireland’s modelling forecasts all sorts of apocalyptic scenarios.
Used to support FG, not after this.

It's coalition politics and NPHET. You'd struggle to find another party to support as they all agree with this to some extent and NPHET are still backed in their caution by a lot of the population.

francogarbanzo

RobitTV wrote: »

This 'covid pass' discussion is irrelevant to me. When indoor dining resumes, pubs and restaurants aren't going to be turning away individuals based on their vaccination status. Do you really think they are going to deny entry to paying customers after 16 months of not earning a penny?

This isn't going to happen folks. The government will introduce the 'covid pass' and then it will slowly become useless and the pubs will not ask for it. They haven't got the time or resources to be arguing with people over some silly pass (If they aren't vaccinated yet)

Antigen testing is the way forward, like Denmark.

If enough people accept it, and turn up with their vax pass, then pubs and restaurants will accept it too.

bear1

Responder XY wrote: »

Don't get the hate for a Covid pass concept - think it's a good idea, can leverage the EU's DCC and it's already built. It's no more onerous on a restaurant/bar than checking ID for underage drinking.

The only issue I have is that it limits those who haven't had an option to get a vaccine yet or for some reason can't. That isn't fair and with Antigen testing isn't necessary. This needs to be added to valid methods of being allowed to avail of indoor activities.

I wouldn't say it's in any way the same as showing id to get into a bar.
The point of the Id is to prove that you're of legal drinking age, this is essentially disclosing your medical status.
The idea itself would make more sense if there was a possibility to take antigen test, for free, i.e. ala Denmark then I don't think this would have been as disastrous.

Zebra3

Relax brah wrote: »

Whinging about it on boards.ie will definitely fix the issues though lol

People who come out with comments like that are usually the ones who look down their nose at protesters....

Lucas Hood

RobitTV wrote: »

This 'covid pass' discussion is irrelevant to me. When indoor dining resumes, pubs and restaurants aren't going to be turning away individuals based on their vaccination status. Do you really think they are going to deny entry to paying customers after 16 months of not earning a penny?

This isn't going to happen folks. The government will introduce the 'covid pass' and then it will slowly become useless and the pubs will not ask for it. They haven't got the time or resources to be arguing with people over some silly pass (If they aren't vaccinated yet)

Antigen testing is the way forward, like Denmark.

You reference Denmark is the way forward but they use a covid pass.
Either have to vaccinated, had covid recently or a negative pcr or antigen test within last 72 hours.