Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

pjohnson

daydorunrun wrote: »

Went to bed angry, woke up angry. Simply cannot believe after all the bull**** of ‘we’re all in this together’ over the last 18 months - the powers that be (and the government!) are going to introduce medical apartheid into this country. I am seriously doubtful I have the stomach to grow old in this here.
No government, no opposition, no hope.

Medical apartheid?

agoodpunt

bear1 wrote: »

I can't believe that we are waiting to see what happens in the UK.
A place which is far less restrictive and with a far higher population.
We are such a docile people.

Maybe we can have the same crowd numbers at wembly in croker soon

paw patrol

is_that_so wrote: »

It is a Donnelly purview to dissolve NPHET. Leo will get rid of MM in 2023 when they move the deckchairs around.

hopefully so.
donnelly could redeem himself if ousted Tony H

eggy81

Relax brah wrote: »

That’s simply not true.

Yes it is.

KrustyUCC

Leo said on newstalk it's government policy to use antigen testing

Not that he'll go against Tony & NPHET and bring it in for indoor hospitality like in Denmark

daydorunrun

CRI0ST0IR wrote: »

It's stupid to think now, that my girlfriend is fully vaccinated so she can sit in, eat and drink in a pub, but then I can't yet due to not in the age group. But I can still go into work every week and serve people inside but just can't sit down and have a drink?

What logic has gone into this idea at all...

You’ll simply be told that an offer of a vaccine will be with you shortly. Question is-
Is it then ok for both of ye to sit inside while anyone is left outside because of medical apartheid?

ThunbergsAreGo

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Heard discussions about all this on the radio this morning. During the time I was listening at least, there wasn't a single mention of antigen testing. A quote from Leo on the news about how the vaccine pass gives us a path to reopening. That would have been a perfect opportunity to push the point that other countries with these passes also accept antigen testing. Nothing. Not a fecking word. Our politicians and journalists are fecking spineless. Who is going to stand up to Holohan's nonsense agenda?

I'd support a pass that also allows testing. As it stands, the proposal excludes younger people and those who, for whatever reason, can't or don't want to get a vaccine. It's reprehensible.

Or that other people have been following this path for months?

And we have only gone for it so our unelected ayatollah can continue his crusade against booze

ArmaniJeanss

Relax brah wrote: »

My job involved 4 days a week travelling Europe, I work in multicultural tech company and have done for the last 10 years.

I can assure you, the Irish drinking culture as a whole is on another level compared to most of Europe.

Zebra3 wrote: »

Sounds like you barely left your hotel room.

Or perhaps he/she worked in these European cities during the week Monday to Friday. They can actually be close to dead, particularly in the centre from Sunday to Wednesday, pick up steam on Thursday and then be party central (way in excess of Ireland) on Friday and Saturday night.
A few times I've made a mistake by staying until Monday on a weekend break to take advantage of a cheap return flight, and had a dour Sunday evening.

stephenjmcd

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Heard discussions about all this on the radio this morning. During the time I was listening at least, there wasn't a single mention of antigen testing. A quote from Leo on the news about how the vaccine pass gives us a path to reopening. That would have been a perfect opportunity to push the point that other countries with these passes also accept antigen testing. Nothing. Not a fecking word. Our politicians and journalists are fecking spineless. Who is going to stand up to Holohan's nonsense agenda?

I'd support a pass that also allows testing. As it stands, the proposal excludes younger people and those who, for whatever reason, can't or don't want to get a vaccine. It's reprehensible.

And that would appear to be the crux of the matter for many people, it's the discriminatory element of it all.

For example I'll get dose 2 on the 21st July. the brother who's 23 will probably get dose 1 sometime in August with the increased vaccine options now to be available, however in the meantime, after I'm vaccinated, myself and my parents can go into the gastropub he works in, have a meal and a few drinks, he can serve us but he can't sit down with us, and then we all go back to the same house ???

Give me strength

daydorunrun

pjohnson wrote: »

Medical apartheid?

Is there a better term for discrimination due to medical status?

Ballynally

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Yeah cause our drinking culture is so different to the UK which is fully open

Having lived in Belgium they love their sessions too

It's a BS excuse

I am from Holland. Having lived in Amsterdam i can tell you that the worst , most aggressive drinkers in the EU were the English, followed by the Scots.
If i'd see a group of them i'd give them plenty of space.
The Irish and Australians seem to have the craic and in general know how to party. The Dutch are actually closer to the English in drinking habits.
I blame it on assertiveness and colonialism. It comes with a level of agression the Irish flock mentality cannot match.

KrustyUCC

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Good that he mentioned it, but it needs to be pushed more by both politicians and journalists. There's no excuse for not allowing it.

TBF to Shane Coleman who I have very little time for, he did bring it up twice in the interview

Leo had to answer

It's mad that it isn't in already

Look at the example of Denmark

https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2021/0622/1230778-denmark-ireland-euro-2020-covid-reopening/

hatrickpatrick

I don't think the government have the slightest idea what a bad look this new policy is, in particular the fact that unvaccinated staff are free to work in hospitality but they won't be allowed to avail of it themselves. When you combine that with the fact that it's an obvious generational divide in terms of vaccination and the fact that there's such an obvious generational divide with regard to other major issues in society, housing being an obvious example, there is a perception - fairly or unfairly - that FFG are now governing entirely for their own target voting demographic and throwing literally everyone else to the wolves.

Or as a friend of mine put it yesterday, "young people can work incredibly hard in a difficult job with long hours and sh!t pay, taking the risk of catching the virus in the process, to facilitate old peoples' enjoyment of life - so that they can go home and hand over most of their earnings from this set-up to those same old people for the privilege of not being homeless".

Rightly or wrongly, this is the perception. Generational warfare in Ireland has largely been obscured under the myriad of individual issues it manifests as, but people are starting to join all of those dots together and come to an extremely bitter conclusion.

I'm not sure what this will or won't lead to societally, but it's a can of worms this government really should have thought through before introducing such a tone deaf and frankly obnoxious policy.

sydthebeat

daydorunrun wrote: »

Is there a better term for discrimination due to medical status?

Emmm... How about "discrimination"?

Apartheid is a pretty insulting word to use, when you consider people who actually suffer real apartheid

beggars_bush

Zebra3 wrote: »

Get a younger lady!!

Maybe she is in the vulnerable category

Anyway, I'm not surprised. Nphet have to do their job. Government will be criticised if they don't follow advice

Red Silurian

facehugger99 wrote: »

Is this the same SF that wanted more restrictions or a different version?

Or are they trying their usual fence-sitting and ditch-hurling?

No doubt it'll be lapped up by the brain-dead morons who vote for them either way.

The state of politics in this country has been been worse - it's a truly depressing landscape.

There is no political party worth voting for.

Source for your claim of SF wanting more restrictions?

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Where have they said this?

Apologies alot has gone on I probably missed this

No worries, threads gone a bit mad (in the good way) hasn't it?

See below

Red Silurian wrote: »

Haven't they?

SF: https://twitter.com/MaryLouMcDonald/status/1409937375493505032
Labour: https://twitter.com/TheHardShoulder/status/1409942240521117704

Remember - all political parties have a by-election to fight on the 8th of July so news from the opposition on other issues might be slow

Could anybody in the Dublin Bay South constituency confirm if this is being discussed on the doorstep?

Klonker

gozunda wrote: »

But which bit do you mean exactly ?



I think you'll find that ECDC report relates to the whole of the EU. And yup restrictions have been rolled back btw. Atm Germany, Portugal and Germany are way ahead with regard stringency measures overall atm.

But yeah I agree - once we have the bulk of people vaccinated - we're flying.

I mean that they're not talking about the one or two countries that have all indoor closed, they're talking about the ones more open when they talk about further easing. Don't care what some stringency thing you link says, those countries are not as restrictive as Ireland and even when you do need a vaccine pass every single country accepts an antigen test too. But NPHET are against that, they have no leg to stand to now say we need vaccine certs.

ThunbergsAreGo

Red Silurian wrote: »

Source for your claim of SF wanting more restrictions?



No worries, threads gone a bit mad (in the good way) hasn't it?

See below

Absolutely no position in them.

And I do think opposition with a defined positon on this would make a difference

VinLieger

Red Silurian wrote: »

Source for your claim of SF wanting more restrictions?



No worries, threads gone a bit mad (in the good way) hasn't it?

See below

Alan Kelly kinda has said it but Mary Lou has absolutely not said she is for opening of indoor dining in that tweet or at any other stage.

daydorunrun

sydthebeat wrote: »

Emmm... How about "discrimination"?

Apartheid is a pretty insulting word to use, when you consider people who actually suffer real apartheid

Point taken- I didn’t know until I just looked it up that apartheid is an Afrikaans term specifically referring to South Africa. No offence intended.

SnuggyBear

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I don't think the government have the slightest idea what a bad look this new policy is, in particular the fact that unvaccinated staff are free to work in hospitality but they won't be allowed to avail of it themselves. When you combine that with the fact that it's an obvious generational divide in terms of vaccination and the fact that there's such an obvious generational divide with regard to other major issues in society, housing being an obvious example, there is a perception - fairly or unfairly - that FFG are now governing entirely for their own target voting demographic and throwing literally everyone else to the wolves.

Or as a friend of mine put it yesterday, "young people can work incredibly hard in a difficult job with long hours and sh!t pay, taking the risk of catching the virus in the process, to facilitate old peoples' enjoyment of life - so that they can go home and hand over most of their earnings from this set-up to those same old people for the privilege of not being homeless".

Rightly or wrongly, this is the perception. Generational warfare in Ireland has largely been obscured under the myriad of individual issues it manifests as, but people are starting to join all of those dots together and come to an extremely bitter conclusion.

I'm not sure what this will or won't lead to societally, but it's a can of worms this government really should have thought through before introducing such a tone deaf and frankly obnoxious policy.

Excellent post. It's hard not to be bitter in this new world.

Rayne Wooney

The next step is for the Government to come up with a plan for allowing vaccinated people and those who have recently recovered from Covid-19 to dine and drink indoors, which they say will be devised by 19 July.

I’m guessing absolutely nobody in this country believes this nonsense from RTE/government.

They won’t have anything ready for the 19th, this is going to drag on now at least another 5 weeks.

If you are under 40 at the end of the month you can fly to the majority of countries in Europe and do whatever you want but when you return here you’ll be sitting outside a restaurant for weeks still using the same restroom as the vaccinated, being served by the unvaccinated.

Holohan should investigated for this not given the freedom of the city, the data they are working with has been shown up as completely delusional in the last couple of days.

Beanybabog

Imagine being a young person working in hospitality. Unemployed for a year, nothing to do, can’t see your friends, travel etc. Giving up everything that’s good about being young to protect other people from a virus most of them would shake off, and now being told they won’t be allowed to go to pubs or restaurants until they can get a vaccine, but they can’t get a vaccine because they’re at back of the queue, but they’ll be allowed work there to serve their vaccinated elders, those who have jobs and money and houses, while they work for minimum wage and risk getting covid while unvaccinated. F**k that.

landofthetree

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1409993588096765955

Expect ISAG to start pushing this as well

Klonker

I can't see Tony allowing the DCC to open for unvaccinated people either on the 19th July when it's supposed to start. He already advised against it a few weeks ago, he mentioned it again in his letter to government, what's the chances he won't have more projections on it closer to 19th July that scare the government? He's as much against travel as he is against alcohol so I can see him letting it happen.

1992ChainGang

Klonker wrote: »

I can't see Tony allowing the DCC to open for unvaccinated people either on the 19th July when it's supposed to start. He already advised against it a few weeks ago, he mentioned it again in his letter to government, what's the chances he won't have more projections on it closer to 19th July that scare the government? He's as much against travel as he is against alcohol so I can see him letting it happen.

Only thing with travel is the EU are insisting it goes ahead. But as far as I know they can push it back another 3 weeks, after that I think it needs to come in regardless. Thankfully

Red Silurian

landofthetree wrote: »

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1409993588096765955

Expect ISAG to start pushing this as well

When they talk about full dismantling they mean no masks and no social distancing

Jinglejangle69

Beanybabog wrote: »

Imagine being a young person working in hospitality. Unemployed for a year, nothing to do, can’t see your friends, travel etc. Giving up everything that’s good about being young to protect other people from a virus most of them would shake off, and now being told they won’t be allowed to go to pubs or restaurants until they can get a vaccine, but they can’t get a vaccine because they’re at back of the queue, but they’ll be allowed work there to serve their vaccinated elders, those who have jobs and money and houses, while they work for minimum wage and risk getting covid while unvaccinated. F**k that.

The whole allowing vaccinated people in is flawed anyway.

As they have admitted there isn't enough data to know if vaccinated people don't carry and pass on the virus.

So what's the idea only allowing them indoors?

They could still get the virus and pass it to unvaccinated people working in a restaurant.

Or they could still catch it even if vaccinated and end up sick or in hospital. The vaccines aren't 100%.

Makes no sense.

starkid

Relax brah wrote: »

My job involved 4 days a week travelling Europe, I work in multicultural tech company and have done for the last 10 years.

I can assure you, the Irish drinking culture as a whole is on another level compared to most of Europe.

Clearly you didn't mix with the great unwashed too much.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Alcohol_consumption_statistics

Health experts would say the whole of the EU has an unhealthy attitude to alcohol.

The French for instance have some of the highest liver cancer deaths in the World because of their love of Red WIne. Red wine on soothers was a favourite of French mamas a bit like the whiskey on soothers here. Red wine gets you pissed much more mellower and slower (i'm a decade long red wine alcoholic) The old Irish/Anglo way of a pint and chaser was a firestorm in comparison. THose days are past really. We still binge too much granted, and rush our drinking into tight timeframes. But of course this is government policy due to some idiotic thinking.

So i'd argue its the culture of what we drink. In our case its actually declining but for a long time we would have been fueled by the wrong alcohol and different way of doing it.

Its hard to find accurate reports on Tony, but he did chair the alcohol thing a while back. i wonder does he drink. I'm not into conspiracies but it does seem plausible that a few of these experts think say losing 3 out of 10 pubs is a worthwhile cost while they try to fight a pandemic. its not a huge leap of logic. As i said the current consensus would be that most EU countries drink too much. if there was a great reset type of mindset anywhere, one of them could easily be alcohol. It causes nearly all cancers and has huge costs to economies and crime. IMO there should be a greater drive to old style lower percentage table beer like the olden days.

But some pubs have been shut for 469 days. a few more days and Joyces old puzzle (of crossing Dublin without passing a pub) becomes less true by the day. the days of a small town needing 5 or 6 pubs is probably over i'd imagine. Dublin's 751 or so pubs are going to be a dying breed by the time the nanny state mindset has indoctrinated people like my 12 year old. imo its inevitable. intentional or not this is one of the offshoots of the "war on covid" and what at times seems naievly, death. In saying that i was in town yesterday evening, places were packed. so the whole thing is pointless and idiotic.

lee_baby_simms

landofthetree wrote: »

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1409993588096765955

Expect ISAG to start pushing this as well

That will be the next bait and switch. NPHET will recommend children get jabbed once over 18s are done at the end of September. More pausing. More restrictions. 2021 officially a write off.