Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Sweet.Science

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/varadkar-hopes-nphets-covid-19-projections-are-wrong-admits-proposals-unfairon-young-people-40597317.html

LV basically calling their modelling bullsh!t

hatrickpatrick

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I don't think the government have the slightest idea what a bad look this new policy is, in particular the fact that unvaccinated staff are free to work in hospitality but they won't be allowed to avail of it themselves. When you combine that with the fact that it's an obvious generational divide in terms of vaccination and the fact that there's such an obvious generational divide with regard to other major issues in society, housing being an obvious example, there is a perception - fairly or unfairly - that FFG are now governing entirely for their own target voting demographic and throwing literally everyone else to the wolves.

Or as a friend of mine put it yesterday, "young people can work incredibly hard in a difficult job with long hours and sh!t pay, taking the risk of catching the virus in the process, to facilitate old peoples' enjoyment of life - so that they can go home and hand over most of their earnings from this set-up to those same old people for the privilege of not being homeless".

Rightly or wrongly, this is the perception. Generational warfare in Ireland has largely been obscured under the myriad of individual issues it manifests as, but people are starting to join all of those dots together and come to an extremely bitter conclusion.

I'm not sure what this will or won't lead to societally, but it's a can of worms this government really should have thought through before introducing such a tone deaf and frankly obnoxious policy.

Well said. That generation have irked me for a long time. They don't understand or empathise with the challenges young people in 2021 face. This is the latest example.

They got greedy and are more asset rich than we ever will be.

VinLieger

Sweet.Science wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/varadkar-hopes-nphets-covid-19-projections-are-wrong-admits-proposals-unfairon-young-people-40597317.html

LV basically calling their modelling bullsh!t

As much as i think their modeling is bullsh1t thats a gross misrepresentation of what Vardkar said

ArmaniJeanss

1992ChainGang wrote: »

Only thing with travel is the EU are insisting it goes ahead. But as far as I know they can push it back another 3 weeks, after that I think it needs to come in regardless. Thankfully

My fear is that we could push for another exemption or even prefer to pay a token fine for not being ready (similar to the fine we pay for VRT?)

Sweet.Science

VinLieger wrote: »

As much as i think their modeling is bullsh1t thats a gross misrepresentation of what Vardkar said

No . He said it in a way only a politician can.

1992ChainGang

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

My fear is that we could push for another exemption or even prefer to pay a token fine for not being ready (similar to the fine we pay for VRT?)

Yeah, you couldnt put anything past them now at this stage

ThunbergsAreGo

I am surprised there hasnt been more talk of a protest

RobitTV

Varadkar is really struggling this morning, you really do wonder if he believe in the nonsense that comes from his mouth. He knows the government is on the ropes.

The next two weeks are going to be VERY interesting...

namloc1980

1992ChainGang wrote: »

Only thing with travel is the EU are insisting it goes ahead. But as far as I know they can push it back another 3 weeks, after that I think it needs to come in regardless. Thankfully

The Green Cert regulation gives Member States the rights to impose their own restrictions as they deem fit and to "step out" of the Green Cert process. This is because health policy is ultimately a Member State competency in the EU and not an EU competency:

13. Although this Regulation is without prejudice to Member States’ competence to impose restrictions to free movement, in accordance with Union law, to limit the spread of SARS-CoV-2, it should contribute to facilitating the gradual lifting of such restrictions in a coordinated manner whenever possible, in accordance with Recommendation (EU) 2020/1475.

55. To ensure coordination, the Commission and the other Member States should be informed when a Member State requires holders of certificates to undergo, after entry into its territory, quarantine or self-isolation or to be tested for SARS-CoV-2 infection, or if it imposes other restrictions on holders of such certificates

Don't bet against us being an outlier on the Green Cert like we are with indoor hospitality come the 19th July.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32021R0953&qid=1625042455003&from=EN

hatrickpatrick

On NPHET and Tony, I've been saying since last year that there was a risk of public health zealots using the pandemic as an excuse to try and socially engineer the country out of its love of the sesh, in a "sure we may as well replace the plumbing while we've the floor open for electrical re-wiring" kind of mission creep. I don't think that's a conspiracy theory at all. Holohan is on the record as wanting coercive measures to tackle Ireland's binge drinking culture from many years ago. It's not a massive stretch to assume a "kill two birds with one stone" mentality among some in his group, even if they'll never say it out loud.

bucketybuck

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

On NPHET and Tony, I've been saying since last year that there was a risk of public health zealots using the pandemic as an excuse to try and socially engineer the country out of its love of the sesh, in a "sure we may as well replace the plumbing while we've the floor open for electrical re-wiring" kind of mission creep. I don't think that's a conspiracy theory at all. Holohan is on the record as wanting coercive measures to tackle Ireland's binge drinking culture from many years ago. It's not a massive stretch to assume a "kill two birds with one stone" mentality among some in his group, even if they'll never say it out loud.

You will soon get called a conspiracy theorist..

But to be quite frank, I don't know how any sane adult can look at what has been allowed to happen in this country in the past 14 months and not come to the conclusion that something is very, very rotten in this countries governance.

Murph85

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

On NPHET and Tony, I've been saying since last year that there was a risk of public health zealots using the pandemic as an excuse to try and socially engineer the country out of its love of the sesh, in a "sure we may as well replace the plumbing while we've the floor open for electrical re-wiring" kind of mission creep. I don't think that's a conspiracy theory at all. Holohan is on the record as wanting coercive measures to tackle Ireland's binge drinking culture from many years ago. It's not a massive stretch to assume a "kill two birds with one stone" mentality among some in his group, even if they'll never say it out loud.

Whatever about drinking, why the hell is smoking still permitted in pubs and clubs. It should be totally banned on private premises... spending billions to avoid a handful of deaths and complicit in the deaths out thousands a year from smoking... hundreds die in Dublin every year prematurely from crap air quality...

Munstergirl854

Ballynally wrote: »

I am from Holland. Having lived in Amsterdam i can tell you that the worst , most aggressive drinkers in the EU were the English, followed by the Scots.
If i'd see a group of them i'd give them plenty of space.
The Irish and Australians seem to have the craic and in general know how to party. The Dutch are actually closer to the English in drinking habits.
I blame it on assertiveness and colonialism. It comes with a level of agression the Irish flock mentality cannot match.

Good points.
I've always thought the English drink the Irish under the table and not the other way round.

They also have a day drinking culture over there which we don't really have.Pubs packed on a Wednesday,Thursday, people having one on their lunch break while here in towns pubs might not open until evening time.

Wibbs

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I don't think the government have the slightest idea what a bad look this new policy is, in particular the fact that unvaccinated staff are free to work in hospitality but they won't be allowed to avail of it themselves. When you combine that with the fact that it's an obvious generational divide in terms of vaccination and the fact that there's such an obvious generational divide with regard to other major issues in society, housing being an obvious example, there is a perception - fairly or unfairly - that FFG are now governing entirely for their own target voting demographic and throwing literally everyone else to the wolves.

Or as a friend of mine put it yesterday, "young people can work incredibly hard in a difficult job with long hours and sh!t pay, taking the risk of catching the virus in the process, to facilitate old peoples' enjoyment of life - so that they can go home and hand over most of their earnings from this set-up to those same old people for the privilege of not being homeless".

Rightly or wrongly, this is the perception. Generational warfare in Ireland has largely been obscured under the myriad of individual issues it manifests as, but people are starting to join all of those dots together and come to an extremely bitter conclusion.

I'm not sure what this will or won't lead to societally, but it's a can of worms this government really should have thought through before introducing such a tone deaf and frankly obnoxious policy.

Well bloody said. This paranoid and fearful seige mentality over this virus is getting ridiculous now. It was 100% warranted when it kicked off and for most of last year, but the data is in; this virus is of vanishingly small threat to those under 40. They're more likely to die in a traffic accident on the way to the pub than from this pox. It's a pretty bloody small threat to those under 60 with it. The median mortality age for this virus is 83.

Now we're in a situation where the vast majority of those people who are vulnerable to ths virus are vaccinated, or close to it and we have better understandings of therapies managing the infected if they do end up hospitalised. Nobody's crying out for ventilators or pop up hospitals for the overflow(remember both of those concerns that transfixed us?). Summer 2021 is a very different place to summer 2020. We've buggered the economy and the lives of the young over this and we're going to see the hangover from those for quite a while. Mental health services are already overwhelmed far more than ICU's for Covid were.

Open up and none of that I vant to zee yur paperz gestapo ballsology to get into a cafe either. If the government doesn't have the spine, then the grass roots should say no more. Take the relevant precautions, masks for employees and basic common sense hygiene and so on and open up and sod the government and their Nphet advisors. IMHO the latter have gotten too used to the smell of their own farts and want to stay in the limelight and the politicians are as always looking to jostle for position so they can stay feeding at the trough come next election. Sod them both.

MOH

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

As the Indo tells it, this all seems to be down to Micheal Martin being unable to make a decision himself, and Holohan - himself an arrogant dominating individual as we've seen in the pressers - taking advantage of this weak ineffectual man to push his agenda...

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/scramble-to-save-summer-ministers-incensed-at-nphet-race-on-to-develop-vaccine-id-amid-shock-advice-40596602.html

.... It almost reads like an abusive relationship between them to be honest. One of them has to get out.

What about us? Won't somebody please think of the children?!

starkid

Murph85 wrote: »

Whatever about drinking, why the hell is smoking still permitted in pubs and clubs. It should be totally banned on private premises... spending billions to avoid a handful of deaths and complicit in the deaths out thousands a year from smoking... hundreds die in Dublin every year prematurely from crap air quality...

well thats the dangerous or in some cases progressive path/mindset all this leads down to.

150k people die every single day across the World. Many from avoidable accidents, murder, disease, crime, alcohol, toxicity caused by corporations, cancers caused by corporations etc. Its such a stupid mindset to focus on one thing.

Until we develop warp drive, or dark matter or whatever, people will die. thats the unfortunate reality of living. And knowing you will and that you can't prevent it, is the curse that humans were given above all other animals (for whatever reason *i'm an athiest).

Now personally i think some of the change in mindset is good. i always said to people whats the point in smoking bans when you're walking along the road sucking in diesel fumes from busses and trucks on any given day. eletric vehicles are the answer. 1.3 million people die in car accidents. i think in the future generations will look back at humans driving like we do smoking on airplanes or hospitals. "You did what?" they will say.

Obviously covid is transmissable which is the difference. however tonnes of cancers are caused by huge corporations and governments turning a blind eye for capitalist gains. personally as an anxiety ridden depressed person for decades, i don't get the focus on any one thing. there's a tonne of bad **** to go around. its educating, seeing highly functional people only starting to realise or accept this fact, now. unfortunately it could whip up some of the zealot in them as we are seeing with Tony Herohan.

TefalBrain

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

That will be the next bait and switch. NPHET will recommend children get jabbed once over 18s are done at the end of September. More pausing. More restrictions. 2021 officially a write off.

We just have to lockdown to protect the vulnerable,

oh hold on the over 60's

oh hold on the over 50's

oh hold on the over 40's

oh hold on the over 30's

oh hold on the over 20's

oh hold on the teenagers

oh hold on the under 13's

Did someone say new dangerous variant?

Just 2 more weeks.

Wibbs

Nash Lemon Serfdom wrote: »

Well said. That generation have irked me for a long time. They don't understand or empathise with the challenges young people in 2021 face. This is the latest example.

They got greedy and are more asset rich than we ever will be.

Speaking as a 52 year old I agree with you 100%. And you'll find quite the number of those over 70 who are more vulnerable to this pox would also agree. They're seeing their kids and especially their grandkids suffering from those challenges.

voldejoie

I'm (almost) 30 and incredibly angry at how my life has been derailed by this poxy pandemic and the hamfisted response to it. I can't even think about how much worse it is for younger people, just starting out in their careers or at college or even at school, and seeing NPHET talk about there being a risk to schools and colleges reopening after the summer has me in a rage. Enough is enough

Richard Hillman

Red Silurian wrote: »

When they talk about full dismantling they mean no masks and no social distancing

NPHET will cling onto masks for years. It will be their last battle. It holds no economic detriment so government will probably let them have it to keep them quiet.

NPHET won't go quietly into the night. They have had fame and power suddenly thrust upon them. People have notions that they are infallible people, uncorrupted by these things.

Murph85

Ff are so screwed , it would make sense to take advantage of the situation, dump mm as leader, insta a new hardliner, who will dismiss nphet, reopen and sort out housing etc..

Not a yes man, not a spoofer, a like it or lump it type... not someone trying to be everything to all people, like every irish politician...

Ff would benefit far more from this than fg, given their support. Bit it would also help fg. Get someone in with the stones to end this nonsense, address housing and the outrageous rip off marginal rate taxes, reward the hard working...

Open goal, I can only prey a new party forms

Red Silurian

https://www.newstalk.com/news/corona-pass-could-mean-never-having-to-go-into-lockdown-again-varadkar-1218394

Never having to go into lockdown again with this corona-pass

Delaying re-openings so we can ensure our reopening plan isn't reversed

I'd worry that all of this echoes similar soundbites from last year

Quags

Red Silurian wrote: »

https://www.newstalk.com/news/corona-pass-could-mean-never-having-to-go-into-lockdown-again-varadkar-1218394

Never having to go into lockdown again with this corona-pass

Delaying re-openings so we can ensure our reopening plan isn't reversed

I'd worry that all of this echoes similar soundbites from last year

I wouldn't believe anything our Government says. Just hot air coming from them is all that is

Wibbs

Corona pass my arse. I staggers me that anyone would be gung ho for more government oversight and names on databases when we're already tracked quite enough thanks very much. Don't get me started on the "well I've nothing to hide" people... And once that kinda thing gets in it doesn't ever get removed. That's a guarantee. There'll always be some boogyman "variant" to rattle the cages with.

VinLieger

A covid pass isnt legal let alone workable, restaurants and pubs aren't in a place to enforce something like this and the gardai cannot effectively police it either, its absoluyte madness.

timmyntc

VinLieger wrote: »

A covid pass isnt legal let alone workable, restaurants and pubs aren't in a place to enforce something like this and the gardai cannot effectively police it either, its absoluyte madness.

I agree - however Varadkar has said they fully intend on doing it. Vaccine or proof of recovery, but negative test isnt good enough

Dr. Bre

RobitTV wrote: »

Varadkar is really struggling this morning, you really do wonder if he believe in the nonsense that comes from his mouth. He knows the government is on the ropes.

The next two weeks are going to be VERY interesting...

Crucial you mean

Quags

timmyntc wrote: »

I agree - however Varadkar has said they fully intend on doing it. Vaccine or proof of recovery, but negative test isnt good enough

Thus brings in a two tier system which is illegal surely.

Jinglejangle69

VinLieger wrote: »

A covid pass isnt legal let alone workable, restaurants and pubs aren't in a place to enforce something like this and the gardai cannot effectively police it either, its absoluyte madness.

Unfortunately it is legal.

Richard Hillman

Let's get one thing straight. No restaurant or pub will be refusing your business based on vaccination status. No Garda can ask you your vaccination or health status.

Anything is voluntary. And importantly, if a pub or restaurant refuses you because of your vaccination status, you will have a glorious civil case against them.