COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

hmmm · 12-04-2021 5:00pm

Allow people to sign waivers and get the AZ vaccine if there is unused surplus.

The idea that a "couple of weeks" delay in the vaccination programme is trivial is unreal. A quarter of the country is out of work.

namloc1980 · 12-04-2021 5:00pm

ACitizenErased wrote: »

They'll give over 70s AZ and give group 4 RNA, not sure why this is hard to get

This has not been announced so is supposition at the moment. How many over 70s have not yet got their first shot?

namloc1980 · 12-04-2021 5:02pm

hmmm wrote: »

Allow people to sign waivers and get the AZ vaccine if there is unused surplus.

That's not going to happen.

thecretinhop · 12-04-2021 5:02pm

hmmm wrote: »

Allow people to sign waivers and get the AZ vaccine if there is unused surplus.

The idea that a "couple of weeks" delay in the vaccination programme is trivial is unreal. A quarter of the country is out of work.

100pc right. everyone i know wud take it. i had it do i not get az jab 2 now?

Turtwig · 12-04-2021 5:02pm

hmmm wrote: »

Allow people to sign waivers and get the AZ vaccine if there is unused surplus.

The idea that a "couple of weeks" delay in the vaccination programme is trivial is unreal. A quarter of the country is out of work.

Yep, any delay to the vulnerable cohorts vaccinations, has serious implications for our reopening. However, I don't think the government will delay the reopening schedule. I think we may end up with a smaller fourth wave hitting the hospitals.

Multipass · 12-04-2021 5:04pm

bennyineire wrote: »

So you reckon go with the cheapest vaccine which will hold up opening the country and costing the state millions in PUP and lost tax revenue ?

I really hope you don't handle finances on work or for your family

I don’t know how you came to that conclusion. By not using AZ we are delaying opening and costing millions. We’re extending lockdown AND looking for the most expensive vaccines.

Gael23 · 12-04-2021 5:05pm

My mum ,53, got the first dose last week. What happens to that group?

Qrt · 12-04-2021 5:07pm

funnydoggy wrote: »

Afraid to think of a virtual start to my second year of MTU in September.. I can't do another fúcking semester sitting down in my room looking at a screen :pac:

Tell me about it. I’m at breaking point myself. I’ve never met anyone in my course and my sleep schedule is an absolute joke. Not to mention I’ve learnt next to nothing AND I’m behind on everything.

ACitizenErased · 12-04-2021 5:08pm

There's so much confusion now and what ifs that I sit in hope that the CMO and government see the recommendation is unworkable without delays to the program

hmmm · 12-04-2021 5:08pm

Turtwig wrote: »

Yep, any delay to the vulnerable cohorts vaccinations, has serious implications for our reopening. However, I don't think the government will delay the reopening schedule. I think we may end up with a smaller fourth wave hitting the hospitals.

The bigger risk here I think is as was mentioned earlier that the J&J vaccine has the same issue. Suddenly that casual "couple of weeks" becomes "a few months". God help us if any issue arises with the mRNA vaccines.

I remember there was a Lyme disease vaccine a few years ago which was pulled for something similar. A good vaccine, rare side effect, people lost confidence.

In the middle of a pandemic the risk/benefit ratio has to change. I can understand why a regulator wouldn't want to put their neck on the line when they know that if we administer a million vaccinations, 5-10 people might be badly affected, but this is a point where a government should be stepping in to say there is a bigger picture which needs to be considered.

Sky King · 12-04-2021 5:10pm

They shut down the country to protect a minority, surely they should apply the same reasoning to opening it back up again.

rm212 · 12-04-2021 5:12pm

What an absolute shambles by NIAC. Firstly, I personally think the restriction to over 60s is too severe and they should lower that to maybe 40 or 50, but that's not even the point, so let's set aside the point as to whether or not it should be restricted by age group.

If they're going to make the decision to limit the vaccine to certain age groups, it is a disgrace that they left it so long after the EMA released their results. This decision should have been made last week, or use of AZ should have been suspended again while they made their decision on this. Them coming out and saying to continue vaccinating cohort 4 with the vaccine while they deliberate on whether it is safe for almost a week, then turning around and limiting it, is highly unprofessional and will cause stress for those who got it in the last couple of days.

What are they going to do now regarding the second dose for those under 60 who got the first dose already?

dominatinMC · 12-04-2021 5:14pm

hmmm wrote: »

The bigger risk here I think is as was mentioned earlier that the J&J vaccine has the same issue. Suddenly that casual "couple of weeks" becomes "a few months". God help us if any issue arises with the mRNA vaccines.

I remember there was a Lyme disease vaccine a few years ago which was pulled for something similar. A good vaccine, rare side effect, people lost confidence.

In the middle of a pandemic the risk/benefit ratio has to change. I can understand why a regulator wouldn't want to put their neck on the line when they know that if we administer a million vaccinations, 5-10 people might be badly affected, but this is a point where a government should be stepping in to say there is a bigger picture which needs to be considered.

It's shocking really. As a scientist myself, you are always striving for perfection, but such an aspiration needs to be tempered during a pandemic! Even the much-vaunted mRNA vaccines with an incredible 95% efficacy are being criticised by some scientists. Ludicrous stuff, especially when you consider that this disease has only been in circulation for 15 months or so. We really can't afford such luxuries at present. At the end of the day, these are very very rare side effects.

KrustyUCC · 12-04-2021 5:15pm

On RTE radio now if J&J included in same issues as AZ there 35% of all vaccines were expecting over the next few months that can only be used on 60-69 year olds

astrofool · 12-04-2021 5:15pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

Of course there isn't but it hasn't been widely used on the over 70s at all to date except in narrow circumstances. Another mis-step.

Not another mis-step, a f*ck up by the trials that meant the efficacy of the vaccine in over 70's was virtually unknown. Good that captain hindsight is here to tell us that the results would have been good.

dominatinMC · 12-04-2021 5:17pm

KrustyUCC wrote: »

On RTE radio now if J&J included in same issues as AZ there 35% of all vaccines were expecting over the next few months that can only be used on 60-69 year olds

FFS. MM better go with the begging bowl to Biden and secure some surplus Pfizer or Moderna.

lucernarian · 12-04-2021 5:20pm

1huge1 wrote: »

What on earth has the government got to do with this, this kind of comment makes it very hard to take your posts seriously. You post the same stuff every day.

This comment hasn't aged very well given the news about NIAC's pending decisions

namloc1980 · 12-04-2021 5:20pm

astrofool wrote: »

Not another mis-step, a f*ck up by the trials that meant the efficacy of the vaccine in over 70's was virtually unknown. Good that captain hindsight is here to tell us that the results would have been good.

It's been know for some time that AZ if good for over 70s but we have still been not been using it for over 70s except in very narrow circumstances. But shur that's grand I suppose. Good man.

Dressoutlet · 12-04-2021 5:21pm

Multipass wrote: »

I don’t know how you came to that conclusion. By not using AZ we are delaying opening and costing millions. We’re extending lockdown AND looking for the most expensive vaccines.

Although I don't agree with the over 60s limit on AZ. I most certainly do not think cost of vaccine should be ahead of people's lives

ebbsy · 12-04-2021 5:32pm

Time for this country to let the UK authorities take over the rollout here.

Pay them to do it.

Hurrache · 12-04-2021 5:35pm

ebbsy wrote: »

Time for this country to let the UK authorities take over the rollout here.

Pay them to do it.

There's a post from someone with little knowledge of what's been happening in the UK.

Or is it that you're just a loyalist?

hmmm · 12-04-2021 5:39pm

The graphic around half-way down this page I think is very clear on the risks/benefits. I don't think the data on this has been debunked has it?
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-qa-the-uks-astrazeneca-blood-clot-announcement

E.g.

For every 100,000 50-year olds who receive the vaccine, it means 10.5 fewer ICU admissions every 16 weeks. By contrast, 0.4 (half a person) may experience a dangerous blood clot.

That's not even to mention the other benefits of bringing this pandemic to a close sooner. Weren't we all worried about new variants arising 24 hours ago, how is that risk reduced if we delay our vaccination program? And what about the economic implications of dragging this out to late Summer?

lucernarian · 12-04-2021 5:43pm

hmmm wrote: »

The graphic around half-way down this page I think is very clear on the risks/benefits. I don't think the data on this has been debunked has it?
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-qa-the-uks-astrazeneca-blood-clot-announcement

E.g.

For every 100,000 50-year olds who receive the vaccine, it means 10.5 fewer ICU admissions every 16 weeks. By contrast, 0.4 (half a person) may experience a dangerous blood clot.

That's not even to mention the other benefits of bringing this pandemic to a close sooner. Weren't we all worried about new variants arising 24 hours ago, how is that risk reduced if we delay our vaccination program? And what about the economic implications of dragging this out to late Summer?

Yeah I felt that a restriction was incoming, but honestly surprised by the high barrier (60+) for AZ being proposed. It has clear benefits for administration at host ages, particularly 50+ when the alternative is people waiting longer to get any vaccine.

Multipass · 12-04-2021 5:47pm

Dressoutlet wrote: »

Although I don't agree with the over 60s limit on AZ. I most certainly do not think cost of vaccine should be ahead of people's lives

This would be hilarious if it wasn’t so tragic. We’re now at a situation where you have to be left at risk of the big bad covid because of a minute chance of an adverse reaction. Whatever happened to saving lives from covid no matter the cost?
And secondly, a broken deeply indebted economy kills people on a massive scale. This Monopoly money being frittered around now is going to kill our children and our grandchildren.

ebbsy · 12-04-2021 5:48pm

Hurrache wrote: »

There's a post from someone with little knowledge of what's been happening in the UK.

Or is it that you're just a loyalist?

I go for medical treatment in the UK twice a year Mr. Thicko, I know exactly what is happening there.

Thicko, just like your ould lad.

lbj666 · 12-04-2021 5:49pm

For those asking whether people who got AZ already will be recommended for their 2nd dose , in all likelyhood yes. These are people in either high risk of exposure (remaining HCWs) or high risk of severe illness(Cohort 4-7).

There is enough eligible for AZ vaccine to use up whats expected between now and end of June. If AZ only and only AZ is ring fenced for 60-69s its likely to mean delay in finishing that cohort by a couple of weeks, but making more progress than planned elsewhere in parrallel.

The alternative is to give what jab is available at while working down this group, but meaning AZ is going to be on the shelf until its time for the 2nd dose. Other cohorts waiting for jabs that they are eligible for ,but were used by 60-69 will have to wait and remember you may aswell count 2x for every pfizer jab given the 2nd dose is so soon after.

So the question is which is more important, getting 60-69 done as quickly as possible and sacrifice a few weeks in the overall rollout or not.

lbj666 · 12-04-2021 5:56pm

hmmm wrote: »

The graphic around half-way down this page I think is very clear on the risks/benefits. I don't think the data on this has been debunked has it?
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-qa-the-uks-astrazeneca-blood-clot-announcement

E.g.

For every 100,000 50-year olds who receive the vaccine, it means 10.5 fewer ICU admissions every 16 weeks. By contrast, 0.4 (half a person) may experience a dangerous blood clot.

That's not even to mention the other benefits of bringing this pandemic to a close sooner. Weren't we all worried about new variants arising 24 hours ago, how is that risk reduced if we delay our vaccination program? And what about the economic implications of dragging this out to late Summer?

the graphics are flawed because it does not separate unlying illness and those that dont.
So its over playing the risk for normally healthy but under playing it for those with underlying illness.

BUT;

Anyone who thinks they are in the low exposure category from now on, forget about it .

Edit: i forgot to say it only compares ICU to severe side effects. so every CST event fell in the severe but on the other side it doesn't even get into hospitalisations or long covid etc.

Turtwig · 12-04-2021 5:56pm

hmmm wrote: »

The graphic around half-way down this page I think is very clear on the risks/benefits. I don't think the data on this has been debunked has it?
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-qa-the-uks-astrazeneca-blood-clot-announcement

E.g.

For every 100,000 50-year olds who receive the vaccine, it means 10.5 fewer ICU admissions every 16 weeks. By contrast, 0.4 (half a person) may experience a dangerous blood clot.

That's not even to mention the other benefits of bringing this pandemic to a close sooner. Weren't we all worried about new variants arising 24 hours ago, how is that risk reduced if we delay our vaccination program? And what about the economic implications of dragging this out to late Summer?

That's UK data. While I would expect ours to be similar, it may not be. I'll wait to see what NIAC announce before suggesting it's disproportionate.

I'm still cautiously optimistic it was RTE mistaking under 60s in the general population. That all cohorts above that including those under 60 years in cohorts 4 and 7 will still be offered AZ. Who knows though will have to wait and see?

IRISHSPORTSGUY · 12-04-2021 5:56pm

Elessar wrote: »

Christ almighty this is infuriating.

The Irish authorities are, as usual, on the extreme end of conservatism with everything to do with this pandemic. After the longest and probably most draconian restrictions on planet earth, they are going ultra-cautious with AZ rather than take the bigger picture into account.

You can be damn sure a lot of over 60s will refuse AZ now, and ultimately they will have to be given another one. Rather than a blanket ban for under 60s they should allow under 60s to take it with a note that these clots are a tiny possible side effect. I'm sure many would still take one.

Otherwise this is going to be a complete shambles, again.

I'm hoping the backlash will be strong and the government will force them to re-adjust the age restrictions to something more proportionate. Madness.

Miike · 12-04-2021 5:57pm

The DayDream wrote: »

Turns out they were dead right. I knew the rollout would be a shambles in this country but what a joke we really are.

Whatever about the rest of your post but this is a global problem not an Irish one.

Edit: Am I the only person fascinated by this thread in the sense that in the mornings it's civilized balanced discussion and then by the evening it's like a cocaine fueled cock-fight?

COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

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