COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

Beasty

Thread 1
Thread 2

No anti-vax stuff in this thread - it's to discuss the various vaccines available and how they are getting rolled out, as well as testing procedures

Threadbans carry over

Threadbanned users:
3xh
Dr.Frost
kingbhome
nannerbenahs
skooterblue2
Fodla
Caraibh
drunkmonkey
lawrencesummers
Howard Beale
Thornysheep
Snowcat

funnydoggy

Smells like new car in here... except the car is on fire :pac:

hmmm

I don't like new threads, it normally takes years for a thread to get to this point. I only want to use threads which have been around for years.

Le Bruise

hmmm wrote: »

I don't like new threads, it normally takes years for a thread to get to this point. I only want to use threads which have been around for years.

This thread isn’t moving fast enough!

caveat emptor

Deleted User wrote: »

Might be an idea to post the full segment rather than the blatant selective segment shared by the nutritionist

https://globalnews.ca/video/rd/094ad...4/?jwsource=cl

This is the worst type of dishonest reporting. Intentionally taking a segment to deliberately paint someone’s views in a different light

Thanks raind. I wasn't aware and that Eric ding tweet is a bit misleading. I wasn't aware of the full segment. Thanks.

Regards to the reassurances given though I'd be inclined to wait. She stated that "in all of the clinical trials to date there have been no cases of hospitalisation or severe disease in the vaccine group"

This is reassuring but that South African study is the only clinical trial we have seen where the vaccine efficacy has been measured against that South African variant.

Given the impact it has had of efficacy especially in some vaccines I wouldn't rule it out just yet. Reassuring though so thanks.

Big difference in the confidence intervals and the study participants being generally young won't tell us about the older cohort which unfortunately are far more likely to end up in hospital etc.

Interim results of the Novavax Covid-19 vaccine in HIV-uninfected individuals in South Africa and the general UK population reported VE of 60% (95%CI: 20; 80; in) and 89% (95%CI:75; 95), respectively against all-severity Covid-19 (also mainly mild and moderate illness)

J & J does look good at preventing severe which is very good news.

Interim results from the South African arm reported VE of 54% against moderate-severe and 85% against severe Covid-19 mainly due to B.1.351 variant.

Escape from human neutralizing antibody responses is expected to be a feature of the pandemic coronavirus in the years ahead as a result of pressure on the virus to select for variants that can still transmit despite immunity from natural infection or vaccination and cause mild infection. For this reason, the results reported here are expected.

DaSilva

Simple and makes my point about vaccine priority better than I ever managed too:

https://twitter.com/mdbarra/status/1360275741183770627

Beasty

hmmm wrote: »

I don't like new threads, it normally takes years for a thread to get to this point. I only want to use threads which have been around for years.

You've got over 9 thousand 9 hundred and ninety posts to enjoy before this thread expires - make the most of them

Water John

Hopefully the thread runs out of subject matter later in the year.

Sanjuro

Water John wrote: »

Hopefully the thread runs out of subject matter later in the year.

Wouldn't mind if the thread went on for a while. So long as its all positive updates.

Micky 32

Prof Sahin:

“”If people keep getting vaccinated then the mortality rate may become lower than for flu………””

ACitizenErased

Speaking of Sahin:

COVID-19: Vaccine doses shouldn't be more than six weeks apart, scientist behind Pfizer-BioNTech jab says

Professor Ugur Sahin says the UK should provide evidence to back up its vaccination strategy.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vaccine-doses-shouldnt-be-more-than-six-weeks-apart-scientist-behind-pfizer-biontech-jab-says-12215576

Gael23

Some good news for the weekend https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2021/0212/1196851-europe-vaccine-latest/?fbclid=IwAR3Ww3Vf-K4FNyaAWY3xWfBbmsXpfetBXRB4lseKqaMhfDn-ydRAx0TCylA

brickster69

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Speaking of Sahin:

COVID-19: Vaccine doses shouldn't be more than six weeks apart, scientist behind Pfizer-BioNTech jab says

Professor Ugur Sahin says the UK should provide evidence to back up its vaccination strategy.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vaccine-doses-shouldnt-be-more-than-six-weeks-apart-scientist-behind-pfizer-biontech-jab-says-12215576

A bit like Ferrari asking Mercedes proof of how the others car goes faster. What's it to do with him, go and ask WHO, UK & EU regulators why they approved it for 12 weeks.

ACitizenErased

brickster69 wrote: »

A bit like Ferrari asking Mercedes proof of how the others car goes faster. What's it to do with him, go and ask WHO, UK & EU regulators why they approved it for 12 weeks.

? Pfizer-BioNTech was approved by EMA for doses between 21 and 28 days.

ACitizenErased

1.1 million doses done by end of March
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1360320443396337667?s=20

D.Q

ACitizenErased wrote: »

1.1 million doses done by end of March
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1360320443396337667?s=20

my god is that some positive ****ing rhetoric :eek:

edit:from MM I mean, not ACE

brickster69

brickster69 wrote: »

A bit like Ferrari asking Mercedes proof of how the others car goes faster. What's it to do with him, go and ask WHO, UK & EU regulators why they approved it for 12 weeks.

It’s more like Ferrari asking why are you running my car with a Hyundai engine and still expecting it to perform like a Ferrari without so much as testing it

Pete_Cavan

brickster69 wrote: »

A bit like Ferrari asking Mercedes proof of how the others car goes faster. What's it to do with him, go and ask WHO, UK & EU regulators why they approved it for 12 weeks.

I think a more accurate analogy would be a government deciding a different service regime for a car against the manufacturers advice and the manufacturer querying that.

JTMan

In the US, Fauci has said, that "virtually everybody and anybody in any category could start to get vaccinated" in April.

Prioritisation for certain groups should end in April in the US.

Hopefully a sign of things to come here when we have enough supply.

brickster69

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I think a more accurate analogy would be a government deciding a different service regime for a car against the manufacturers advice and the manufacturer querying that.

That's totally fair enough. But not from someone who is making a similar product and disputing things when he has no proof to back up his claims. He can only base things on what he knows about his own vaccine.

brickster69

brickster69 wrote: »

That's totally fair enough. But not from someone who is making a similar product and disputing things when he has no proof to back up his claims. He can only base things on what he knows about his own vaccine.

He was talking about his own product and the uk decision to space the Pfizer biontech doses 12 weeks apart

landofthetree

https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1360331979523194881

Cork2021

A very good article in the IT! Just gives an all round picture!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/approach-of-spring-and-summer-can-help-suppress-covid-cases-1.4483326?mode=amp&fbclid=IwAR0Bipv_87aGl_istztl_azeZeLJ4luxoT-MdzUI0SOIuKVuC1SbXiiM0JI

brickster69

Deleted User wrote: »

He was talking about his own product and the uk decision to space the Pfizer biontech doses 12 weeks apart

Ok, he is talking about Pfizer my mistake. Maybe the UK regulators decided on a different service regime for that vaccine based on what they have found out themselves and are happy to advise that. If we remember that everyone was calling the UK crazy when they increased time frame for the AZ vaccine to be increased and now it is accepted.

I think what it comes down to was, that Pfizer never tested or had any data on a longer second dose basis and they were approved on the 28 days basis. Now it seems that up to 6 weeks is acceptable but not certified by the regulators.

Probably best off picking up a phone and speak to the people involved with it in the UK you would of thought, than going to TV disputing it.

brickster69

brickster69 wrote: »

Ok, he is talking about Pfizer my mistake. Maybe the UK regulators decided on a different service regime for that vaccine based on what they have found out themselves and are happy to advise that. If we remember that everyone was calling the UK crazy when they increased time frame for the AZ vaccine to be increased and now it is accepted.

I think what it comes down to was, that Pfizer never tested or had any data on a longer second dose basis and they were approved on the 28 days basis. Now it seems that up to 6 weeks is acceptable but not certified by the regulators.

Probably best off picking up a phone and speak to the people involved with it in the UK you would of thought, than going to TV disputing it.

The UK did not increase the Astra Zeneca vaccine interval. The 12 week gap was qualified. The uk decided to use the 12 week interval for Pfizer before AZ was even approved. I think you have a lot of the details muddled.

ACitizenErased

Cork2021 wrote: »

A very good article in the IT! Just gives an all round picture!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/approach-of-spring-and-summer-can-help-suppress-covid-cases-1.4483326?mode=amp&fbclid=IwAR0Bipv_87aGl_istztl_azeZeLJ4luxoT-MdzUI0SOIuKVuC1SbXiiM0JI

Thats a fantastic piece. I have great time for Paul Cullen. Only person who ever asks proper questions at the briefings. He asked yesterday why we aren't trying harder to open our schools and also pressed on healthcare worker infections and vaccine effects.

Cork2021

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Thats a fantastic piece. I have great time for Paul Cullen. Only person who ever asks proper questions at the briefings. He asked yesterday why we aren't trying harder to open our schools and also pressed on healthcare worker infections and vaccine effects.

True, not too many will ask those questions in fear of being vilified by his or hers peers

Deathofcool

ACitizenErased wrote: »

1.1 million doses done by end of March
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1360320443396337667?s=20

If we are currently on 248,284 up to Tuesday and with 7 weeks or so left in Q1 we are going to have to average 121,673 or so per week to make the 1.1 million target.

As an aside the moderna number is still at 1893 doses administered, anyone any ideas on this?

Water John

Deathofcool wrote: »

If we are currently on 248,284 up to Tuesday and with 7 weeks or so left in Q1 we are going to have to average 121,673 or so per week to make the 1.1 million target.

As an aside the moderna number is still at 1893 doses administered, anyone any ideas on this?

Good to have a high target. We'll have to get to about 200/250K per week right through the second quarter. Not sure we'll get to that level until April.

ACitizenErased

Think we're doing 80k next week (12000 85+, 25000 HCW, 42500 LTRC) as a minimum so I think 1.1 million is achievable as it ramps up

brickster69

Deleted User wrote: »

The UK did not increase the Astra Zeneca vaccine interval. The 12 week gap was qualified. The uk decided to use the 12 week interval for Pfizer before AZ was even approved. I think you have a lot of the details muddled.

The Pfizer jab is recommended for 4 weeks for the second dose because it was only tested for that time frame. If they had time to test different intervals then approval would have been delayed by two months or longer, so this is the data they have. No evidence to say that it will be less effective.

If 12 weeks is equal or better we will see, but obviously there would be some sort of scientific advice and strong evidence that there is.

Russman

Deathofcool wrote: »

As an aside the moderna number is still at 1893 doses administered, anyone any ideas on this?

I think they only got c3,600 doses of Moderna and used them to trial out 3 of the mass vaccination centres. They gave out those 1893 first doses mostly to GPs and held back 50% for the second dose. Might even be this weekend that the second doses are administered.

brickster69

brickster69 wrote: »

The Pfizer jab is recommended for 4 weeks for the second dose because it was only tested for that time frame. If they had time to test different intervals then approval would have been delayed by two months or longer, so this is the data they have. No evidence to say that it will be less effective.

If 12 weeks is equal or better we will see, but obviously there would be some sort of scientific advice and strong evidence that there is.

Again you are exposing your lack of knowledge. The Pfizer vaccine was qualified for 21 to 42 days. But you seem to know better than Ugur Sahin.

It’s ok to admit you are wrong you know

funnydoggy

People say pubs, I say the cinema. I wanna go to the MAXX screen in Mahon Point and watch a movie while gorging myself on popcorn, sharing the room with a hundred or so people and not worrying about a stupid virus.

ACitizenErased

funnydoggy wrote: »

People say pubs, I say the cinema. I wanna go to the MAXX screen in Mahon Point and watch a movie while gorging myself on popcorn, sharing the room with a hundred or so people and not worrying about a stupid virus.

Agree, Mahon Point maxx seats are ridiculously comfy

brickster69

Deleted User wrote: »

Again you are exposing your lack of knowledge. The Pfizer vaccine was qualified for 21 to 42 days. But you seem to know better than Ugur Sahin.

It’s ok to admit you are wrong you know

The data for EU, UK & USA approval was based on a second dose of 21 - 28 days because that was the only data they had from phase 3 trials to submit. If it has been recommended after that up to 6 weeks fair enough, if another qualifies it for 3 months then that is it's decision.

If the UK strategy is to get as many people vaccinated at once then that is it's decision based on strong evidence to do so.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/955846/annex-b-comparison-between-1-and-2-dose-prioritisation-for-a-fixed-number-of-doses.pdf

Polar101

Covid breathalysers might be a thing soon - the company developing them says their device takes a sample in 15 seconds, and analyses it in three. The result (positive/negative) is based on "biomarkers" found in the sample, which are compared to samples from Covid patients.

I don't know - sounds very interesting, but I wonder how reliable it will be. They will have results from field tests in the Netherlands soon, and an EU certificate this month, so they'll be able to start producing the devices very soon.

https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/rapid_covid_breath_test_devices_developed_in_finland/11788674

bodhrandude

hmmm wrote: »

I don't like new threads, it normally takes years for a thread to get to this point. I only want to use threads which have been around for years.

You need to see the Glastonbury 'Chat' forum in Efestivals, the covid thread is 2,568 pages long.

Micky 32

funnydoggy wrote: »

People say pubs, I say the cinema. I wanna go to the MAXX screen in Mahon Point and watch a movie while gorging myself on popcorn, sharing the room with a hundred or so people and not worrying about a stupid virus.

The movie ‘No Time To Die’?

Hmmzis

Read the SA paper on the AZ/Oxford 'results'.

The main thing is, they lack data, they need more. They also are noting the difference in endpoint qualifications between J&J and Oxford and are raising a valid point there, the vaccines might be much closer than the released numbers would suggest.

The nAB titer drops look a bit more prominent than for Pfizer/BNT and Moderna. The overall picture there looks to be that the nAB response for the SA variant is below the correlate of protection. If we take the 60% efficacy as a yard stick then for that in the PSV assay that would read at around 200-300ish, and for the LV assay a 1:16 dilution. The signal is still there, it's just too low and from the first graphs it doesn't look like the booster at 4-6 weeks did much of anything as the rise in titers looks very similar to what J&J had without a booster (still climbing at day 57). It makes the 12 week boost interval look even more of a reasonable approach.

I think the decision to jab 100k people and monitor them for outcomes is a very sound approach and since they will use J&J alongside AZ/Oxford we should have a much better picture in the comming months of the utility of both vaccines in the field against that variant and also how they stack up to each other. My laymans take on them both would be that after the single dose J&J might be ahead a bit but once the booster at 12 weeks kicks in then AZ/Oxford should pull ahead.

One odd, even surprising, thing I noticed was the distinct lack of differences between titers in those who were vaccinated and got a breakthrough infection. I would have expected a very distinct difference there, since the other way around there is a huge difference.

funnydoggy

Micky 32 wrote: »

The movie ‘No Time To Die’?

God yes!!

McGiver

Skyfloater wrote:

Is the EMA still waiting for J&J to submit their request for approval, and if so, it begs the question why? Surely the data they sent to the American FDA is the exact same for us Europeans. The EMA should be offering to fill out the paperwork for J&J, not passively waiting for the application to arrive in the post.

EMA is working on the rolling review of several vaccines.

Rolling review of the J&J data started in December.
Rolling review of the Novavax data started on 3 February.
Rolling review of the CureVac data started today.

This was done with all vaccines so far. Rolling review starts ahead of the application. EMA doesn't sit idle! The application itself must be done by the pharma company.

All US based or affiliated pharma companies first seek FDA approval, then Canadian and then only EMA approval. That's the practice.

Micky 32

https://www.rte.ie/news/newslens/2021/0211/1196561-covid-maths/

Crazy!

Wolf359f

Micky 32 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/newslens/2021/0211/1196561-covid-maths/

Crazy!

Rough coke can calculation, that 1 can of coke is the same volume as 3.48bil cans of coke in coffins for the victims.

Why do RTE decide to run an article like that?
We've heard it before in the movie Outbreak:
You have to love its simplicity. It's one billionth our size and it's beating us
Granted it's smaller than that on multiple scales, but viruses have always been small, maybe RTE just learned that.

Micky 32

Wolf359f wrote: »

Rough coke can calculation, that 1 can of coke is the same volume as 3.48bil cans of coke in coffins for the victims.

Why do RTE decide to run an article like that?
We've heard it before in the movie Outbreak:
You have to love its simplicity. It's one billionth our size and it's beating us
Granted it's smaller than that on multiple scales, but viruses have always been small, maybe RTE just learned that.

I think i heard once that 50,000 of these viruses can fit on the head of a needle. :eek:

JTMan

McGiver wrote: »

The application itself must be done by the pharma company.

EMA are expecting the application from J&J in "days".

Russman wrote: »

I think they only got c3,600 doses of Moderna and used them to trial out 3 of the mass vaccination centres. They gave out those 1893 first doses mostly to GPs and held back 50% for the second dose. Might even be this weekend that the second doses are administered.

Around 40% of GP's, who did did not get the Moderna vaccine, are getting their first dose on Sunday in the Phoenix Park, but this time GP's are been given the AZ/Oxford vaccine.

Sky King

JTMan wrote: »

EMA are expecting the application from J&J in "days". .

Class. So what's the timeframe till approval?

is_that_so

Sky King wrote: »

Class. So what's the timeframe till approval?

AZ was 17 days.

mean gene

Yevon wrote: »

According to the Irish Times we have received 16,800 doses of Moderna since the initial dose of 3,600. All of it has been kept in stock for use this week on the over 85s.

Looking forward to the next few weeks and watching the effort ramp up. I'm hoping it will really give people a boost and help ease the fears of the older generation in particular.

Hopefully they'll actually tell the over 85s most are in limbo

giveitholly

Plenty of vaccines on the way according to the very positive Luke O'Neill

https://twitter.com/laoneill111/status/1360514307180670978?s=19

snotboogie

I see Chile got close to 1% of their population getting a shot in a single day last week. They would only be the third country to hit that number after Israel and the UAE. I think this is the magic number countries need to be hitting. Israel are now at 72 shots given per 100 and UAE are at 50, Chile are already at 10 having only ramped up this month. Herd immunity will be achieved somewhere around 150 to 160. The UK are still only at 22 and the US are only at 15. While both are getting plaudits for their rollout this month it would take them over a year to reach herd immunity at their current pace.

We only need 50k per day to hit that 1% number.