COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

dominatinMC

hmmm wrote: »

The bigger risk here I think is as was mentioned earlier that the J&J vaccine has the same issue. Suddenly that casual "couple of weeks" becomes "a few months". God help us if any issue arises with the mRNA vaccines.

I remember there was a Lyme disease vaccine a few years ago which was pulled for something similar. A good vaccine, rare side effect, people lost confidence.

In the middle of a pandemic the risk/benefit ratio has to change. I can understand why a regulator wouldn't want to put their neck on the line when they know that if we administer a million vaccinations, 5-10 people might be badly affected, but this is a point where a government should be stepping in to say there is a bigger picture which needs to be considered.

It's shocking really. As a scientist myself, you are always striving for perfection, but such an aspiration needs to be tempered during a pandemic! Even the much-vaunted mRNA vaccines with an incredible 95% efficacy are being criticised by some scientists. Ludicrous stuff, especially when you consider that this disease has only been in circulation for 15 months or so. We really can't afford such luxuries at present. At the end of the day, these are very very rare side effects.

KrustyUCC

On RTE radio now if J&J included in same issues as AZ there 35% of all vaccines were expecting over the next few months that can only be used on 60-69 year olds

astrofool

namloc1980 wrote: »

Of course there isn't but it hasn't been widely used on the over 70s at all to date except in narrow circumstances. Another mis-step.

Not another mis-step, a f*ck up by the trials that meant the efficacy of the vaccine in over 70's was virtually unknown. Good that captain hindsight is here to tell us that the results would have been good.

dominatinMC

KrustyUCC wrote: »

On RTE radio now if J&J included in same issues as AZ there 35% of all vaccines were expecting over the next few months that can only be used on 60-69 year olds

FFS. MM better go with the begging bowl to Biden and secure some surplus Pfizer or Moderna.

lucernarian

1huge1 wrote: »

What on earth has the government got to do with this, this kind of comment makes it very hard to take your posts seriously. You post the same stuff every day.

This comment hasn't aged very well given the news about NIAC's pending decisions

namloc1980

astrofool wrote: »

Not another mis-step, a f*ck up by the trials that meant the efficacy of the vaccine in over 70's was virtually unknown. Good that captain hindsight is here to tell us that the results would have been good.

It's been know for some time that AZ if good for over 70s but we have still been not been using it for over 70s except in very narrow circumstances. But shur that's grand I suppose. Good man.

Dressoutlet

Multipass wrote: »

I don’t know how you came to that conclusion. By not using AZ we are delaying opening and costing millions. We’re extending lockdown AND looking for the most expensive vaccines.

Although I don't agree with the over 60s limit on AZ. I most certainly do not think cost of vaccine should be ahead of people's lives

ebbsy

Time for this country to let the UK authorities take over the rollout here.

Pay them to do it.

Hurrache

ebbsy wrote: »

Time for this country to let the UK authorities take over the rollout here.

Pay them to do it.

There's a post from someone with little knowledge of what's been happening in the UK.

Or is it that you're just a loyalist?

hmmm

The graphic around half-way down this page I think is very clear on the risks/benefits. I don't think the data on this has been debunked has it?
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-qa-the-uks-astrazeneca-blood-clot-announcement

E.g.

For every 100,000 50-year olds who receive the vaccine, it means 10.5 fewer ICU admissions every 16 weeks. By contrast, 0.4 (half a person) may experience a dangerous blood clot.

That's not even to mention the other benefits of bringing this pandemic to a close sooner. Weren't we all worried about new variants arising 24 hours ago, how is that risk reduced if we delay our vaccination program? And what about the economic implications of dragging this out to late Summer?

lucernarian

hmmm wrote: »

The graphic around half-way down this page I think is very clear on the risks/benefits. I don't think the data on this has been debunked has it?
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-qa-the-uks-astrazeneca-blood-clot-announcement

E.g.

For every 100,000 50-year olds who receive the vaccine, it means 10.5 fewer ICU admissions every 16 weeks. By contrast, 0.4 (half a person) may experience a dangerous blood clot.

That's not even to mention the other benefits of bringing this pandemic to a close sooner. Weren't we all worried about new variants arising 24 hours ago, how is that risk reduced if we delay our vaccination program? And what about the economic implications of dragging this out to late Summer?

Yeah I felt that a restriction was incoming, but honestly surprised by the high barrier (60+) for AZ being proposed. It has clear benefits for administration at host ages, particularly 50+ when the alternative is people waiting longer to get any vaccine.

Multipass

Dressoutlet wrote: »

Although I don't agree with the over 60s limit on AZ. I most certainly do not think cost of vaccine should be ahead of people's lives

This would be hilarious if it wasn’t so tragic. We’re now at a situation where you have to be left at risk of the big bad covid because of a minute chance of an adverse reaction. Whatever happened to saving lives from covid no matter the cost?
And secondly, a broken deeply indebted economy kills people on a massive scale. This Monopoly money being frittered around now is going to kill our children and our grandchildren.

ebbsy

Hurrache wrote: »

There's a post from someone with little knowledge of what's been happening in the UK.

Or is it that you're just a loyalist?

I go for medical treatment in the UK twice a year Mr. Thicko, I know exactly what is happening there.


Thicko, just like your ould lad.

lbj666

For those asking whether people who got AZ already will be recommended for their 2nd dose , in all likelyhood yes. These are people in either high risk of exposure (remaining HCWs) or high risk of severe illness(Cohort 4-7).

There is enough eligible for AZ vaccine to use up whats expected between now and end of June. If AZ only and only AZ is ring fenced for 60-69s its likely to mean delay in finishing that cohort by a couple of weeks, but making more progress than planned elsewhere in parrallel.

The alternative is to give what jab is available at while working down this group, but meaning AZ is going to be on the shelf until its time for the 2nd dose. Other cohorts waiting for jabs that they are eligible for ,but were used by 60-69 will have to wait and remember you may aswell count 2x for every pfizer jab given the 2nd dose is so soon after.

So the question is which is more important, getting 60-69 done as quickly as possible and sacrifice a few weeks in the overall rollout or not.

lbj666

hmmm wrote: »

The graphic around half-way down this page I think is very clear on the risks/benefits. I don't think the data on this has been debunked has it?
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-qa-the-uks-astrazeneca-blood-clot-announcement

E.g.

For every 100,000 50-year olds who receive the vaccine, it means 10.5 fewer ICU admissions every 16 weeks. By contrast, 0.4 (half a person) may experience a dangerous blood clot.

That's not even to mention the other benefits of bringing this pandemic to a close sooner. Weren't we all worried about new variants arising 24 hours ago, how is that risk reduced if we delay our vaccination program? And what about the economic implications of dragging this out to late Summer?

the graphics are flawed because it does not separate unlying illness and those that dont.
So its over playing the risk for normally healthy but under playing it for those with underlying illness.

BUT;

Anyone who thinks they are in the low exposure category from now on, forget about it .


Edit: i forgot to say it only compares ICU to severe side effects. so every CST event fell in the severe but on the other side it doesn't even get into hospitalisations or long covid etc.

Turtwig

hmmm wrote: »

The graphic around half-way down this page I think is very clear on the risks/benefits. I don't think the data on this has been debunked has it?
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-qa-the-uks-astrazeneca-blood-clot-announcement

E.g.

For every 100,000 50-year olds who receive the vaccine, it means 10.5 fewer ICU admissions every 16 weeks. By contrast, 0.4 (half a person) may experience a dangerous blood clot.

That's not even to mention the other benefits of bringing this pandemic to a close sooner. Weren't we all worried about new variants arising 24 hours ago, how is that risk reduced if we delay our vaccination program? And what about the economic implications of dragging this out to late Summer?

That's UK data. While I would expect ours to be similar, it may not be. I'll wait to see what NIAC announce before suggesting it's disproportionate.

I'm still cautiously optimistic it was RTE mistaking under 60s in the general population. That all cohorts above that including those under 60 years in cohorts 4 and 7 will still be offered AZ. Who knows though will have to wait and see?

IRISHSPORTSGUY

Elessar wrote: »

Christ almighty this is infuriating.

The Irish authorities are, as usual, on the extreme end of conservatism with everything to do with this pandemic. After the longest and probably most draconian restrictions on planet earth, they are going ultra-cautious with AZ rather than take the bigger picture into account.

You can be damn sure a lot of over 60s will refuse AZ now, and ultimately they will have to be given another one. Rather than a blanket ban for under 60s they should allow under 60s to take it with a note that these clots are a tiny possible side effect. I'm sure many would still take one.

Otherwise this is going to be a complete shambles, again.

I'm hoping the backlash will be strong and the government will force them to re-adjust the age restrictions to something more proportionate. Madness.

Miike

The DayDream wrote: »

Turns out they were dead right. I knew the rollout would be a shambles in this country but what a joke we really are.

Whatever about the rest of your post but this is a global problem not an Irish one.

Edit: Am I the only person fascinated by this thread in the sense that in the mornings it's civilized balanced discussion and then by the evening it's like a cocaine fueled cock-fight?

is_that_so

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

I'm hoping the backlash will be strong and the government will force them to re-adjust the age restrictions to something more proportionate. Madness.

Where is this backlash going to come from?

Russman

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

I'm hoping the backlash will be strong and the government will force them to re-adjust the age restrictions to something more proportionate. Madness.

Who gets to decide what’s appropriate on a medical issue ?

Multipass

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

I'm hoping the backlash will be strong and the government will force them to re-adjust the age restrictions to something more proportionate. Madness.

There won’t be a backlash - Irrational health anxiety has become a national pastime, and they’ve moved on from fear of covid onto fear of the vaccines. I’m almost looking forward to the next wave, when side effects from Pfizer get publicity.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

is_that_so wrote: »

Where is this backlash going to come from?

Communication from constituents
Social media reaction
The media
TDs (hopefully Cabinet Ministers) with a bit of cop on

Some scientists in their cushy public sector jobs needs to touch base with the real world here.

maviesk

Vaccine press conference at 7.30pm..

User1998

hmmm wrote: »

Allow people to sign waivers and get the AZ vaccine if there is unused surplus.

The idea that a "couple of weeks" delay in the vaccination programme is trivial is unreal. A quarter of the country is out of work.

There shouldn’t even be a waiver. The chance of blood clotting is so small. If thats the case then you should be signing a waiver for every prescription/medicine/vaccine you ever take.

Ridiculous

Rebelbrowser

maviesk wrote: »

Vaccine press conference at 7.30pm..

Given Fergal Bowers story was published at lunchtime and there's been no confirmation since I wouldn't be surprised if its a different story at this press conference. Clearly there has been a lot of talking since 1pm. Whatever issues we can see with this decision, those involved in the vaccine rollout will have seen many fold more. Hopefully sense has prevailed and its over 55s or 50s.

funnydoggy

Where's the press conference happening online?

Russman

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Communication from constituents
Social media reaction
The media
TDs (hopefully Cabinet Ministers) with a bit of cop on

Some scientists in their cushy public sector jobs needs to touch base with the real world here.

Replace medical experts with effective mob rule ?

IRISHSPORTSGUY

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Communication from constituents
Social media reaction
The media
TDs (hopefully Cabinet Ministers) with a bit of cop on

Some scientists in their cushy public sector jobs needs to touch base with the real world here.

Some of us are quite happy to trust the experts here. Again, it's not just Ireland. Most of Western Europe, Canada and Australia are doing similar. It's not going to impact the rollout as badly as some are claiming.

bodhrandude

funnydoggy wrote: »

Where's the press conference happening online?

I presume RTE News Now or something like that.

Turtwig

Russman wrote: »

Replace medical experts with effective mob rule ?

You got it in one!:D What couldn't go wrong with this?