COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

Vicxas

namloc1980 wrote: »

If AZ is now off the table then that sets back the vaccination programme massively.

No, it doesnt. It just means that over 60's will get AZ exclusively.

If Pfizer and Moderna drop supply forecasts then we're going to be set back.

Multipass

What about the cost, Astrozeneca is far cheaper.
no-ones talking about that. We have unlimited finances now. **** the next generations.

Sofa King Great

Vicxas wrote: »

No, it doesnt. It just means that over 60's will get AZ exclusively.

If Pfizer and Moderna drop supply forecasts then we're going to be set back.

Of course it does. They aren't going to hold off on vaccinating certain over 60s until the supply of AZ arrives in May and June and give the currebt supply of pfizer/modern to under 60s.

Don't forget last week the point was made repeatedly that age is the most important factor.

namloc1980

Vicxas wrote: »

No, it doesnt. It just means that over 60's will get AZ exclusively.

If Pfizer and Moderna drop supply forecasts then we're going to be set back.

We're not giving AZ to over 70s. That hasn't changed unless you can show otherwise. So the only ones getting AZ will be from 60-69.

ACitizenErased

namloc1980 wrote: »

We're not giving AZ to over 70s. That hasn't changed unless you can show otherwise.

Well we will be now

bennyineire

Multipass wrote: »

What about the cost, Astrozeneca is far cheaper.
no-ones talking about that. We have unlimited finances now. **** the next generations.

So you reckon go with the cheapest vaccine which will hold up opening the country and costing the state millions in PUP and lost tax revenue ?

I really hope you don't handle finances on work or for your family

namloc1980

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Well we will be now

Not confirmed yet as far as I know.

Icantthinkof1

namloc1980 wrote: »

We're not giving AZ to over 70s. That hasn't changed unless you can show otherwise.

Surely it would be a silly decision to continue to give the RNA vaccines to the over 70’s and not with AZ considering no one else can take them under 60?
Shouldn’t the RNA vaccines now be given to the 16-59 medically vulnerable?

Elessar

Christ almighty this is infuriating.

The Irish authorities are, as usual, on the extreme end of conservatism with everything to do with this pandemic. After the longest and probably most draconian restrictions on planet earth, they are going ultra-cautious with AZ rather than take the bigger picture into account.

You can be damn sure a lot of over 60s will refuse AZ now, and ultimately they will have to be given another one. Rather than a blanket ban for under 60s they should allow under 60s to take it with a note that these clots are a tiny possible side effect. I'm sure many would still take one.

Otherwise this is going to be a complete shambles, again.

namloc1980

Icantthinkof1 wrote: »

Surely it would be a silly decision to continue to give the RNA vaccines to the over 70’s and not with AZ considering no one else can take them under 60?
Shouldn’t the RNA vaccines should be given to the 16-59 medically vulnerable?

Of course it would be silly but that's what we've been doing all along and wouldn't surprise me if that's what we continue to do.

vienne86

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Well we will be now

How do you know that? I think a changr there is unlikely and most over 70s have their first dose now.

ACitizenErased

vienne86 wrote: »

How do you know that? I think a changr there is unlikely and most over 70s have their first dose now.

Who else are we going to give it to?

muddypuppy

Multipass wrote: »

What about the cost, Astrozeneca is far cheaper.
no-ones talking about that. We have unlimited finances now. **** the next generations.

I hope you're sarcastic :pac:
All of them are cheap enough, much cheaper than keeping everything closed. Hell, most of the cost is how much we are paying GPs to vaccinate anyway, the vaccine itself is anything from 1/3 to 1/8 of that.

namloc1980

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Who else are we going to give it to?

60-69. That's all we have to give it to. Most over 70s have had their first mrna vaccine dose already. We're not going to change midstream.

iamwhoiam

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Well we will be now

How do you know this ? 70 -75 are all due theirs this week so I doubt very much anything will change for them

ACitizenErased

namloc1980 wrote: »

60-69. That's all we have to give it to. Most over 70s have had their first rmna vaccine dose already. We're not going to change midstream.

Okay so stop giving AZ, just give it to 60-69.
And what will cohort 4 use? They'll have to get mRNA from the over 70s group, obviously. So what's going to fill the over 70 gap?

S_D

namloc1980 wrote: »

We're not giving AZ to over 70s. That hasn't changed unless you can show otherwise. So the only ones getting AZ will be from 60-69.

My mam and dad both got AZ Friday. 74 & 78

namloc1980

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Okay so stop giving AZ, just give it to 60-69.
And what will cohort 4 use? They'll have to get mRNA from the over 70s group, obviously. So what's going to fill the over 70 gap?

Over 70s are higher up the hierarchy in Group 3 so they come before Group 4 unfortunately. There's going to be a delay to Group 4 undoubtedly.

ACitizenErased

namloc1980 wrote: »

Over 70s are higher up the hierarchy in Group 3 so they come before Group 4 unfortunately. There's going to be a delay to Group 4 undoubtedly.

They're not going to stop a group in progress

For all the talk of how ridiculously conservative we are in Ireland, we are not alone here. Regulators in most of Western Europe, Australia and Canada have made similar decisions. These are medical experts scrutinising the data, and I trust that they know what they're doing here.

astrofool

namloc1980 wrote: »

We're not giving AZ to over 70s. That hasn't changed unless you can show otherwise. So the only ones getting AZ will be from 60-69.

They've been using AZ on > 70's homebound (and as required) for a while now, AZ had been earmarked for cohort 4, but the guidelines changed a few weeks ago. Cohort 4 was going to use the AZ supply as it came in, but that will be updated, clinically, I don't believe there's any reason not to use AZ on > 70's anymore now that the efficacy data has been coming in and looks good.

Sky King

Elessar wrote: »

You can be damn sure a lot of over 60s will refuse AZ now, and ultimately they will have to be given another one. Rather than a blanket ban for under 60s they should allow under 60s to take it with a note that these clots are a tiny possible side effect. I'm sure many would still take one.

I totally agree with this. Make them available to anyone who understands statistics.

namloc1980

ACitizenErased wrote: »

They're not going to stop a group in progress

What are they going to give them? A placebo or leave the in flight Group 3 short?

josip

funnydoggy wrote: »

How far could this set us back?

A month at most; July supply of others will be sufficient to replace AZ, plus everyone ends up fully dosed a little sooner.

Lumen

Sky King wrote: »

Make them available to anyone who understands statistics.

That's not going to use up much in the way of supply.

ACitizenErased

namloc1980 wrote: »

What are they going to give them? A placebo or leave the in flight Group 3 short?

They'll give over 70s AZ and give group 4 RNA, not sure why this is hard to get

dominatinMC

Amidst all the doom and gloom, can I just say thank fcuk for Pfizer! Originally thought of as the "high-end" vaccine, it's now turning out to be the workhorse. Here's hoping that they can stick to, or better yet revise upwards, their delivery schedule.

namloc1980

astrofool wrote: »

They've been using AZ on > 70's homebound (and as required) for a while now, AZ had been earmarked for cohort 4, but the guidelines changed a few weeks ago. Cohort 4 was going to use the AZ supply as it came in, but that will be updated, clinically, I don't believe there's any reason not to use AZ on > 70's anymore now that the efficacy data has been coming in and looks good.

Of course there isn't but it hasn't been widely used on the over 70s at all to date except in narrow circumstances. Another mis-step.

stephenjmcd

The way I see it, the only logical thing to do now to keep this on any sort of track would be,

- No more Pfizer or Moderna for over 60s dose 1. Dose 2 only to complete the vaccination

- All over 70s awaiting dose 1 are re routed to MVC for AZ, along with 60-69.

That allows Pfizer & Moderna to be used for dose 2 for those who need it while allowing the rollout to continue down the age groups.

There's pros and cons,
Pros
-Can quickly move through the at risk 16-69
- Probably brings the 50-59 forward & keeps things largely on track

Cons
- longer for those above 60 who get AZ to be fully vaccinated however based on the experience of the UK partial protection should be sufficient for the majority & the 12 week gap shouldn't be an issue.

- Whatever way they go I don't see how the June target is met. Also don't think they'll get near 180k doses this week or next given the logicisatal changes required required any of the options


Oh and if someone u60 wants AZ get them to sign a waiver. I'll sign it tomorrow if they want

lbj666

Russman wrote: »

So, if the figures in post #8606 are correct, there are 483,100 people between 60 & 69 in the country. That would mean 966k doses required.
We've already administered 233k AZ - presumably they're mostly first doses, would there be much overlap with the 966k above ?
We'll still probably need around a million AZ shots in total, give or take.

lbj666 wrote: »

Ya i thinking this may not significantly effect rollout on a broader level than we might think. 233k you say will be getting their 2nd dose in June. 483k 60-69s will get theirs before that, so thats your AZ allocation til end of June used up more or less.

Problem is do you really ring fence AZ and AZ only for one of the last remaining real at risk groups and how much it would prolongue things. NIAC have advised already about oldest first regardless, so they might stay out of the logistical bit of that.

For those who just joined this isnt as big an issue regarding vaccine availability as people might think, we are only due to get 960k in total Astra Zeneca by end of June, off course there are other factors to consider.