How will schools be able to go back in September?

byhookorbycrook · 21-06-2020 07:24PM

firemansam4 wrote: »

It's not about our own personal and financial interests here, it's about the interests of children who are missing out on there education.

I have a child who was getting extra help in his class in senior infants, and as much as I've tried my best with home schooling, (and his teacher has been great as much as possible under the circumstances) he needs to get back into normal school routine as soon as is possible.
We are letting our children down if we don't do everything possible to accommodate that.

Do lots of shared reading over the summer, 15 minutes a day , just the two of you and it will stand to him -and making reading a lovely experience, not a chore . Are you aware of the process?
The library system here has set up an electronic “ Borrow Box” and is running the Summer stars program again this year .

Print out the Dolch words and play games with them them like Snap or Go Fish .

Games like Snakes and Ladders teach number names , addition, counting on and back .

Keep it fun , he will need down time before getting back to school . The longer day wipes new first class children out at the best of times .

mcsean2163 · 22-06-2020 12:45AM

Just cannot fathom some of the suggestions here.

For one child families, it could be a lovely/ ok time. For bigger families.... I'm actually in shock about how little my child did in school and how far behind they are. It's getting harder to keep the momentum going with the school work....

We get a homework dump on a Monday. That's it. A big part of school is learning with peers and obviously that's not happening.

No idea why the boggles person is here.

Anyway, just came across this.

[url]htTps://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/06/03/868507524/israel-orders-schools-to-close-when-covid-19-cases-are-discovered?t=1592782970802[/url]

If teachers are going to insist on risk free work, it may be a long time before schools reopen.

lulublue22 · 22-06-2020 09:50AM

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Just cannot fathom some of the suggestions here.

For one child families, it could be a lovely/ ok time. For bigger families.... I'm actually in shock about how little my child did in school and how far behind they are. It's getting harder to keep the momentum going with the school work....

We get a homework dump on a Monday. That's it. A big part of school is learning with peers and obviously that's not happening.

No idea why the boggles person is here.

Anyway, just came across this.

[url]htTps://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/06/03/868507524/israel-orders-schools-to-close-when-covid-19-cases-are-discovered?t=1592782970802[/url]

If teachers are going to insist on risk free work, it may be a long time before schools reopen.

Ive no idea where you are getting the idea that teachers are insisting on risk free work ?? All those involved are asking for are clear guidelines from the dep re a return to work which include the tools and strategies to minimise any risk. Pretty much like any other worker in Ireland.

I would like clear guidance around illness - both for staff and students. Colds / flus are rampant in schools - its easy to confuse initial symptoms with those of Covid. Will schools receive priority testing / is the testing capacity there? Will subs be available from the first day of illness. If not how will that class be accommodated. If a number of children are presenting with runny noses headaches temps sore throats etc where will they stay till they are collected - where will the staff come from to supervise these children - will there be ppe available for those staff . If a child is presenting with any if the above will any siblings need to go home also? If a child is told to self isolate will siblings in the school need to self isolate - what effect does that have on those classes - will those classes need to self isolate? or carry on as normal ? If I need to self isolate due to a case in my class will my children ( different school ) need to self isolate ?
What will be the recommended social distance ? Will the dep supply hand sanitizer / soap ? will the dep increase the capitation grant to cover increased sanitation ? Will the dep supply masks for staff or more likely will staff need to buy their own.
What s the recommendation for children with underlying health conditions - how are their educational needs to be met ? What will be the procedure for staff with underlying health conditions.

It’s practical issues such as these that I’m interested in. It would be great if the dep in conjunction with NPHET could issue some guidance on the return to school. I think that’s all anyone involved in education wants.

Sammy2012 · 22-06-2020 11:12AM

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Just cannot fathom some of the suggestions here.

For one child families, it could be a lovely/ ok time. For bigger families.... I'm actually in shock about how little my child did in school and how far behind they are. It's getting harder to keep the momentum going with the school work....

We get a homework dump on a Monday. That's it. A big part of school is learning with peers and obviously that's not happening.

No idea why the boggles person is here.

Anyway, just came across this.

[url]htTps://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/06/03/868507524/israel-orders-schools-to-close-when-covid-19-cases-are-discovered?t=1592782970802[/url]

If teachers are going to insist on risk free work, it may be a long time before schools reopen.

I'm just curious as to what you mean by how far behind your child is? How are you working out that they are behind?
Children are always at different levels so when you say your child is behind I'm just wondering how you have determined this? Not being smart. Just interested.

Deeec · 22-06-2020 11:46AM

Sammy2012 wrote: »

I'm just curious as to what you mean by how far behind your child is? How are you working out that they are behind?
Children are always at different levels so when you say your child is behind I'm just wondering how you have determined this? Not being smart. Just interested.

Sammy some parents cannot get through all the work sent from the school due to having other children also to teach, caring for babies and toddlers, work commitments, caring for disabled or elderly etc. Some children also have learning difficulties and take longer to learn. It is reasonable to expect that some children may be behind other children. Also parents do not know if they are teaching subjects using correct methods ie. my daughter has a different method of doing subtraction than I learned at school.

Its understandable that some parents are worried about this as it has not being made clear ( by my childrens school anyway) whether the work will be covered again next year.

JRant · 22-06-2020 12:05PM

lulublue22 wrote: »

Ive no idea where you are getting the idea that teachers are insisting on risk free work ?? All those involved are asking for are clear guidelines from the dep re a return to work which include the tools and strategies to minimise any risk. Pretty much like any other worker in Ireland.

I would like clear guidance around illness - both for staff and students. Colds / flus are rampant in schools - its easy to confuse initial symptoms with those of Covid. Will schools receive priority testing / is the testing capacity there? Will subs be available from the first day of illness. If not how will that class be accommodated. If a number of children are presenting with runny noses headaches temps sore throats etc where will they stay till they are collected - where will the staff come from to supervise these children - will there be ppe available for those staff . If a child is presenting with any if the above will any siblings need to go home also? If a child is told to self isolate will siblings in the school need to self isolate - what effect does that have on those classes - will those classes need to self isolate? or carry on as normal ? If I need to self isolate due to a case in my class will my children ( different school ) need to self isolate ?
What will be the recommended social distance ? Will the dep supply hand sanitizer / soap ? will the dep increase the capitation grant to cover increased sanitation ? Will the dep supply masks for staff or more likely will staff need to buy their own.
What s the recommendation for children with underlying health conditions - how are their educational needs to be met ? What will be the procedure for staff with underlying health conditions.

It’s practical issues such as these that I’m interested in. It would be great if the dep in conjunction with NPHET could issue some guidance on the return to school. I think that’s all anyone involved in education wants.

NPHET is a red herring in this. They are purely an advisory panel. The failure lies squarely with the DES. They had months like to come up with plans and we've (parents and schools) had nothing from them.

JRant · 22-06-2020 12:11PM

Deeec wrote: »

Sammy some parents cannot get through all the work sent from the school due to having other children also to teach, caring for babies and toddlers, work commitments, caring for disabled or elderly etc. Some children also have learning difficulties and take longer to learn. It is reasonable to expect that some children may be behind other children. Also parents do not know if they are teaching subjects using correct methods ie. my daughter has a different method of doing subtraction than I learned at school.

Its understandable that some parents are worried about this as it has not being made clear ( by my childrens school anyway) whether the work will be covered again next year.

If blended learning is to become a thing then some teaching modules need to be made available online. That ensures children are being thought in broadly the same manner for each classroom. What that would entail I'm not entirely sure, maybe a few zoom sessions between teacher and parents at the start of term to give an outline of expectations. The current adhoc approach is not a workable solution for the teachers or children

Lillyfae · 22-06-2020 12:27PM

JRant wrote: »

NPHET is a red herring in this. They are purely an advisory panel. The failure lies squarely with the DES. They had months like to come up with plans and we've (parents and schools) had nothing from them.

Can someone enlighten me here, what are the backgrounds of the people in the DoE? What qualifies them to work there?

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 22-06-2020 12:52PM

JRant wrote: »

If blended learning is to become a thing then some teaching modules need to be made available online. That ensures children are being thought in broadly the same manner for each classroom. What that would entail I'm not entirely sure, maybe a few zoom sessions between teacher and parents at the start of term to give an outline of expectations. The current adhoc approach is not a workable solution for the teachers or children

It doesn't work though, even the parents with the best will cannot get their kids to engage in it long term.

I know many parents who have just given up trying to even get a small amount of work done.

They have given up weeks ago.

Sanjuro · 22-06-2020 01:16PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

It doesn't work though, even the parents with the best will cannot get their kids to engage in it long term.

I know many parents who have just given up trying to even get a small amount of work done.

They have given up weeks ago.

Absolutely this. I've two kids at different stages. My wife and I are trying to juggle looking after the kids and our full time jobs. It's almost impossible to get the kids to engage on a consistent level. Blended learning simply does not work as a long term solution.

Deeec · 22-06-2020 01:31PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

It doesn't work though, even the parents with the best will cannot get their kids to engage in it long term.

I know many parents who have just given up trying to even get a small amount of work done.

They have given up weeks ago.

I agree Zahir Bitter Cellist - it hasnt worked for alot of families. The reason being that their has been no standard set on homeschooling by the DES. Some schools have worked so hard to help parents and make it as easy as possible and some schools have done the bear minimum.( ie 1 email per week)

I would love to see procedures put in place that if homeschooling needs to happen again both schools and parents need to know whats expected of them. I would also love to see schools engage with parents and find out what has worked and what has not worked.

PowerToWait · 22-06-2020 01:57PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

It doesn't work though, even the parents with the best will cannot get their kids to engage in it long term.

I know many parents who have just given up trying to even get a small amount of work done.

They have given up weeks ago.

I can only imagine how difficult it must be for teachers to engage and motivate 30 students, if even the parents cannot motivate or get one or two to engage, even a small bit.

jrosen · 22-06-2020 01:57PM

There is no such thing as a risk free environment. Every aspect of life carries an element of risk.

Teaching is not the only industry with no guidelines. Not saying its ok, just that its a problem across the board.

Our secondary did do surveys but not a peep from the primary.
Blended learning will not become a thing. The curriculum is not set up that way, schools are not set up that way. Not to mention the fact that the government has now basically said almost everyone who has a job is free to return to work. How families are expected to home school their kids while working is beyond me.

iamwhoiam · 22-06-2020 02:03PM

PowerToWait wrote: »

I can only imagine how difficult it must be for teachers to engage and motivate 30 students, if even the parents cannot motivate or get one or two to engage, even a small bit.

Totally different actually . Teachers train for 3-4 years . They know their job and do it well and young children learn via group learning and group play

sideswipe · 22-06-2020 02:04PM

PowerToWait wrote: »

I can only imagine how difficult it must be for teachers to engage and motivate 30 students, if even the parents cannot motivate or get one or two to engage, even a small bit.

Apples v oranges.
Kids in school know why they are there, it's an environment of learning. Kids at home (especially younger ones) find it harder to adapt to home life and school life being mixed together. However they are adaptable so over time they can become more accustomed, thats my experience anyway.

iamwhoiam · 22-06-2020 02:05PM

jrosen wrote: »

There is no such thing as a risk free environment. Every aspect of life carries an element of risk.

Teaching is not the only industry with no guidelines. Not saying its ok, just that its a problem across the board.

Our secondary did do surveys but not a peep from the primary.
Blended learning will not become a thing. The curriculum is not set up that way, schools are not set up that way. Not to mention the fact that the government has now basically said almost everyone who has a job is free to return to work. How families are expected to home school their kids while working is beyond me.

The kids are all out playing and mixing now anyway . In playgrounds , play dates , out on greens and young teens in parks .
Summer camps set up and ready to go and training and matches soon will be played .

Deeec · 22-06-2020 02:06PM

PowerToWait wrote: »

I can only imagine how difficult it must be for teachers to engage and motivate 30 students, if even the parents cannot motivate or get one or two to engage, even a small bit.

With respect I dont think you have a clue how difficult it is - I can get my children to engage. However it is difficult for me to teach 3rd class and senior infants ( Im not a teacher ) and look after a busy 2 year old ( all while doing my finance job from home where I am expected to work 6 hrs per day).

the corpo · 22-06-2020 02:12PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

The kids are all out playing and mixing now anyway . In playgrounds , play dates , out on greens and young teens in parks .
Summer camps set up and ready to go and training and matches soon will be played .

Some kids are. Loads aren't.

iamwhoiam · 22-06-2020 02:15PM

the corpo wrote: »

Some kids are. Loads aren't.

Yes , I don’t know other areas but all around here and parks we go to in South Dublin kids are in playgrounds and mixing on greens etc

jrosen · 22-06-2020 02:18PM

June 29th will see summer camps open. Unfortunately some camps have decided not to proceed this Summer and some places who host other camps will also not run. I believe the application and clearance process was incredibly slow and some clubs have simply opted out and are focusing on just getting themselves up and running for the new sports year.

So parents who rely heavily on camps to get them through the long summer break could find themselves with no camp spot.

jrosen · 22-06-2020 02:19PM

the corpo wrote: »

Some kids are. Loads aren't.

Cant go 5 mins where we live without seeing kids. All out playing. All age groups. Teens I have probably seen less than younger.

Lillyfae · 22-06-2020 02:20PM

Lillyfae wrote: »

Can someone enlighten me here, what are the backgrounds of the people in the DoE? What qualifies them to work there?

Just going to answer myself, partially. Had a quick look and most of the Ministers of the last 20 years have been teachers.

This is a big problem. School principals are teachers, and are not simply overseeing their teaching staff, they're also overseeing IT, planning, facilities etc etc etc. I'm going to hazard a guess and say that probably most staff members of the DoE are Arts (or teaching?) graduates, with no real expertise in the planning or management of education systems, or any other systems.

It's the same all over government, although I'll admit it's becoming a bit more varied over the last few terms. Teachers who have been on sabbatical for 30 40 years while they pursue a political career running the country.

You need to hire people with the correct knowledge for the job that they're doing. A principal needs far more knowledge than that of teaching alone in order to run a school, and needs the assistance of more than a secretary in doing so. One person or more to oversee IT/ facility etc, depending on the size of school. In the Department, they need specialist buyers for equipment and supplies, healthy and safety specialists, senior IT/ facility personnel..... I could go on. You can't just hire general arts/ teaching graduates and stick them into the Department because it seems like they might be relevant to the area. This is the biggest problem I think. And I don't believe that you can promote a teacher to a principal unless they have relevant, extra education in running a centre of education.

khalessi · 22-06-2020 05:23PM

Lillyfae wrote: »

Just going to answer myself, partially. Had a quick look and most of the Ministers of the last 20 years have been teachers.

This is a big problem. School principals are teachers, and are not simply overseeing their teaching staff, they're also overseeing IT, planning, facilities etc etc etc. I'm going to hazard a guess and say that probably most staff members of the DoE are Arts (or teaching?) graduates, with no real expertise in the planning or management of education systems, or any other systems.

It's the same all over government, although I'll admit it's becoming a bit more varied over the last few terms. Teachers who have been on sabbatical for 30 40 years while they pursue a political career running the country.

You need to hire people with the correct knowledge for the job that they're doing. A principal needs far more knowledge than that of teaching alone in order to run a school, and needs the assistance of more than a secretary in doing so. One person or more to oversee IT/ facility etc, depending on the size of school. In the Department, they need specialist buyers for equipment and supplies, healthy and safety specialists, senior IT/ facility personnel..... I could go on. You can't just hire general arts/ teaching graduates and stick them into the Department because it seems like they might be relevant to the area. This is the biggest problem I think. And I don't believe that you can promote a teacher to a principal unless they have relevant, extra education in running a centre of education.

To answer you, the people in the area are not just arts graduates they are very highly qualified in areas such as social policy and other areas and some have postgraduate and doctorates in the relevent areas. Also many ofthem go on and study following employment in the civil service so you couldnt be more wrong.They have a variety of qualifications

khalessi · 22-06-2020 05:28PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

The kids are all out playing and mixing now anyway . In playgrounds , play dates , out on greens and young teens in parks .
Summer camps set up and ready to go and training and matches soon will be played .

Children dont put their hands up in the majority of homes to speak or line up Von Trapp Family style to enter or leave, but they do in school to maintain safety. SO regardless of what is happening outside schools there are rules and policies they follow in school and whatever requirements are needed in Spetember they will follow regardless of their behaviour outside school

Lillyfae · 22-06-2020 05:31PM

khalessi wrote: »

To answer you, the people in the area are not just arts graduates they are very highly qualified in areas such as social policy and other areas and some have postgraduate and doctorates in the relevent areas. Also many ofthem go on and study following employment in the civil service so you couldnt be more wrong.They have a variety of qualifications

Where can this information be found? And why do you think they can’t seem to run their department with all these post grads and doctorates they have? Because I wikid the ministers and they were just that- teaching and arts graduates. At least the ministers get voted out and reshuffled every so often. Civil service personnel can be there for 100s of years.

mcsean2163 · 22-06-2020 05:31PM

Sammy2012 wrote: »

I'm just curious as to what you mean by how far behind your child is? How are you working out that they are behind?
Children are always at different levels so when you say your child is behind I'm just wondering how you have determined this? Not being smart. Just interested.

I have great regard for the teacher of our child who is lovely but we were given one third of the curriculum to do in two weeks of one subject. That's what I mean, I assumed the class was doing ok but it was only when I did the homework that I found how far behind the class were and hence my child.

I had until June 8th to return to work, it was the best paid job I ever had.

I'm now seriously considering being a stay at home Dad, at least for the next six months. I considered the social side the important thing at this time but was genuinely shocked at the level of academic education the kids received. Maybe that's normal, I don't know.

khalessi · 22-06-2020 05:34PM

mcsean2163 wrote: »

I have great regard for the teacher of our child who is lovely but we were given one third of the curriculum to do in two weeks of one subject. That's what I mean, I assumed the class was doing ok but it was only when I did the homework that I found how far behind the class were and hence my child.

I had until June 8th to return to work, it was the best paid job I ever had.

I'm now seriously considering being a stay at home Dad, at least for the next six months. I considered the social side the important thing at this time but was genuinely shocked at the level of academic education the kids received. Maybe that's normal, I don't know.

Too much academic or not enough?Too easy or too hard?

iamwhoiam · 22-06-2020 05:43PM

khalessi wrote: »

Children dont put their hands up in the majority of homes to speak or line up Von Trapp Family style to enter or leave, but they do in school to maintain safety. SO regardless of what is happening outside schools there are rules and policies they follow in school and whatever requirements are needed in Spetember they will follow regardless of their behaviour outside school

Did I say they wouldn’t ? I was stating a fact , nothing more nothing less .

khalessi · 22-06-2020 05:56PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Did I say they wouldn’t ? I was stating a fact , nothing more nothing less .

As am I.

Lillyfae · 22-06-2020 05:58PM

khalessi wrote: »

Children dont put their hands up in the majority of homes to speak or line up Von Trapp Family style to enter or leave, but they do in school to maintain safety. SO regardless of what is happening outside schools there are rules and policies they follow in school and whatever requirements are needed in Spetember they will follow regardless of their behaviour outside school

Should be no issues re health and safety for teachers then.

How will schools be able to go back in September?

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