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I want a shutdown NOW!

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13567…40

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    #62
    aido79
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 5,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭aido79


    How long is a lockdown really practical for? I don't think it's the magic solution that a lot of people are hoping for. This all begun in Ireland and every other country with one case. If there is still one unknown infected person after the lockdown then the whole thing starts again.

    More testing and people following proper social distancing protocols would be a more effective strategy longterm in my opinion.


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    #63
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    A question. Do face masks stop you spreading the virus if you have it?

    I understand that they may not stop you contracting.

    If they stop the spread then why arent govt supplying them to households or why dont they legislate to enforce the wearing of them during thos crisis.


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    #64
    CaoinDory
    Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭CaoinDory


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    If my understanding is correct - you get this virus by spending 10-15 mins within two metres or so of someone who is infected.

    I went to the beach yesterday. Everyone on that beach, without fail, stayed at least two metres away from everyone else bar their immediate group (which were mainly their families). Yet, some posters seem to think this is dangerous. On the few occasions I have ventured out, social distancing has been observed pretty much without fail.

    Am I missing something?

    When I went out to do a supply run there was NO social distancing. People were still right behind me when I was queueing at the till. It's great to here that there are some places it's being adhered to but there are definitely places that it is not. That is the problem.


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    #65
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Yakult wrote: »
    Judging by yesterday, I would disagree. Too many people are ignorant and obviously didn't/don't listen.



    Well unless they work in the few businesses that are remaining open (for necessities), we will have to accept what we are given. Hopefully bills can be frozen in the mean time to leviate a lot of worries people have.

    The reality is that they probably have no where to work and for the forseeable future too. So lock down and we get this curbed faster, so people can get back to work faster and life can resume again.
    It might have been an aberration and people just desperate to get out for a while. Saw interviews from some of those out and the strain was very clear. Most seemed to recognise the social distancing rules. We may need more but lockdown is the last throw of the dice. We are not there yet.


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    #66
    CaoinDory
    Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭CaoinDory


    aido79 wrote: »

    More testing and people following proper social distancing protocols would be a more effective strategy longterm in my opinion.

    I agree. But what do we do with the people who are not doing it properly? That is my problem with it. For these people, who seem to think they are above everyone else, I think they would need to be forced into lockdown to make them realise.

    Alot of people are practising social distancing and if everyone would, the country could continue at a slower, but still functioning pace.


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    #67
    granturismo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,901 ✭✭✭granturismo


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    If my understanding is correct - you get this virus by spending 10-15 mins within two metres or so of someone who is infected.

    I went to the beach yesterday. Everyone on that beach, without fail, stayed at least two metres away from everyone else bar their immediate group (which were mainly their families). Yet, some posters seem to think this is dangerous. On the few occasions I have ventured out, social distancing has been observed pretty much without fail.

    Am I missing something?

    The 10-15 minute rule was debunked and then reaffirmed by one of TCD's immunologists rolled out on TV 2 weeks ago. I think he may have got a wrap on the knuckles for saying transfer can take much less than 10 minutes.
    Potentially all it takes is 1 viral particle which could be inhaled within seconds of close proximity or transfer from a surface.

    I went to the Curragh yesterday and have never seen so many people there. I still went for a walk and managed to stay 10m away from other people. I agree with your 2nd paragraph.


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    #68
    FVP3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭FVP3


    STB. wrote: »
    I am in Wexford.

    Shopping centre car parks full over weekend. McDonald's queues all over the shop.

    I have seen the pictures of Wicklow, Waterford, Dublin etc over the weeknd with people seriously taking the píss.

    The inconvenience of staying in all too much sadly. Sounds a lot like what was happening in Italy not 2 weeks ago. The Doctor's coming out openly about the hard decisions they were making about who lives and dies and the scale of the problem to people who refused to take social distancing seriously.


    https://nypost.com/2020/03/10/italian-doctor-at-heart-of-illness-shares-chilling-coronavirus-thoughts/



    They left it too late. They are open about the root cause. They are are asking other countries not to fall into the same trap.

    Hopeless my backside. People will have to be inconvenienced to save as many as possible.

    There would be no way of enforcing a lock down even if we wanted one. The police might try and ban or stop major public gatherings instead. Keeping everybody in their rooms wouldn't work long term and has no exit strategy.

    Politicians in the west are clear about their strategy, it is flattening the curve. Not killing the virus, or stopping it, like in Wuhan. They clearly don't think that is possible in the West.

    Although possible elsewhere, I don't think we could even police large gatherings here though, although that might be desirable. If a group of 20+ teenagers take over a beach then the police are not going to be able to do much. There are parts of Ireland where there is no

    If there was an official lockdown then the teen and other gatherings would still take place but a bored compliant population would be stuck in their rooms.

    Instead the best we can do, which wont work either, is to reduce groups to 2-5. Germany has just tried that.


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    #69
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    CaoinDory wrote: »
    When I went out to do a supply run there was NO social distancing. People were still right behind me when I was queueing at the till. It's great to here that there are some places it's being adhered to but there are definitely places that it is not. That is the problem.

    I did notice in Tesco that the queues ran side by side the other day which looked silly although the store layout gave few alternatives. But again, if the 10-15 mins is accurate, no one was queuing for that long.

    I just have a bit of a pain with people saying "we have to do this" and "we have to do that". I'll take my advice from the experts. They know what they are doing whereas a lot of people on here seem to be in a state of panic about the situation.

    It's bloody serious, no doubt, but I've confidence in the authorities and I'm not sure hitting the nuclear button is necessary just yet or sustainable in the long term if this does go on for months.


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    #70
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    aido79 wrote: »
    How long is a lockdown really practical for? I don't think it's the magic solution that a lot of people are hoping for. This all begun in Ireland and every other country with one case. If there is still one unknown infected person after the lockdown then the whole thing starts again.

    More testing and people following proper social distancing protocols would be a more effective strategy longterm in my opinion.

    1 infects 4 which then rises exponentially.

    We have 40,000 cases backlogged for the past week or so.

    Its the only solution. Otherwise it will run rampant and overwhelm our limited health system.

    And when that happens, the doctors have to decide who gets the ventilators and who does not. That means there will a age/suitability cut off point and people are morphined to death to ease the fact that they cannot breathe, in isolation, with no family members present.

    I hope that underlines the gravity.


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    #71
    FVP3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭FVP3


    granturismo wrote: »
    The 10-15 minute rule was debunked and then reaffirmed by one of TCD's immunologists rolled out on TV 2 weeks ago. I think he may have got a wrap on the knuckles for saying transfer can take much less than 10 minutes.
    Potentially all it takes is 1 viral particle which could be inhaled within seconds of close proximity or transfer from a surface.

    I went to the Curragh yesterday and have never seen so many people there. I still went for a walk and managed to stay 10m away from other people. I agree with your 2nd paragraph.

    Most people where adhering to the rules when I went for a walk yesterday, teenage groups were not.


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    #72
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    STB. wrote: »
    There are NO EXPERTS.

    We can only learn from the mistakes of other countries.

    People might get a fuzzy feeling about it'll all be grand. Wait a few weeks, there will be no positives if this gets out of the control of our limited health system.

    The simple matter is we don't have a handle on our exact numbers of infections due to a problem with the scale of testing and lab work required. That is not a good start.

    Well I'll put it this way , I will listen to the advice coming from the WHO and our own public health experts as opposed to doom merchants on Boards .
    They may not be experts on this particular virus but their expertise is based on studies of pervious pandemics and transmission of infection.


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    #73
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    STB. wrote: »
    1 infects 4 which then rises exponentially.

    We have 40,000 cases backlogged for the past week or so.

    Its the only solution. Otherwise it will run rampant and overwhelm our limited health system.

    And when that happens, the doctors have to decide who gets the ventilators and who does not. That means there will a age/suitability cut off point and people are morphined to death to ease the fact that they cannot breathe, in isolation, with no family members present.

    I hope that underlines the gravity.

    What's your medical field,expertise and qualification?

    Are you suggesting you are in a better position that Dr. Holohan and Dr. De Gascun to make a decision on a lockdown?


  • Options
    #74
    FVP3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭FVP3


    STB. wrote: »
    1 infects 4 which then rises exponentially.


    We have 40,000 cases backlogged for the past week or so.



    Its the only solution. Otherwise it will run rampant and overwhelm our


    limited health system.


    And when that happens, the doctors have to decide who gets the ventilators and who does not. That means there will a cut off point and people are morphined to death to ease the fact that they cannot breathe, in isolation, with no family members present.



    I hope that underlines the gravity.

    That 40,000 cases isn't a backlog, you keep saying that, it is the number we have agreed to test this week because testing criteria has been loosened. Most will not have CV.

    Anyway, Leo says no:
    https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/were-following-south-korean-model-in-coronavirus-fight-varadkar-plays-down-talk-of-lockdown-in-ireland-39067488.html

    We probably need to do more in terms of tracing though, but the general thrust of his statements is where we are.


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    #75
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    smelly sock wrote: »

    If they stop the spread then why arent govt supplying them to households or why dont they legislate to enforce the wearing of them during thos crisis.

    To answer your question, there are not enough and the frontline staff need them more than some idiot that can't get the concept of social distancing.


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    #76
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    FVP3 wrote: »
    There would be no way of enforcing a lock down even if we wanted one. The police might try and ban or stop major public gatherings instead. Keeping everybody in their rooms wouldn't work long term and has no exit strategy.

    Politicians in the west are clear about their strategy, it is flattening the curve. Not killing the virus, or stopping it, like in Wuhan. They clearly don't think that is possible in the West.

    Although possible elsewhere, I don't think we could even police large gatherings here though, although that might be desirable. If a group of 20+ teenagers take over a beach then the police are not going to be able to do much. There are parts of Ireland where there is no

    If there was an official lockdown then the teen and other gatherings would still take place but a bored compliant population would be stuck in their rooms.

    Instead the best we can do, which wont work either, is to reduce groups to 2-5. Germany has just tried that.

    This is all nonsense.

    Confinement and shut down of non essential services is the next stage after social distancing. It is part of the flattening of the curve plan.

    The government has emergency powers now at its disposal.

    It is going to happen. Limited numbers will not play ball even when the gravity of whats facing us is explained. They can be policed.


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    #77
    The One Doctor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,339 ✭✭✭The One Doctor


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    If my understanding is correct - you get this virus by spending 10-15 mins within two metres or so of someone who is infected.

    I went to the beach yesterday. Everyone on that beach, without fail, stayed at least two metres away from everyone else bar their immediate group (which were mainly their families). Yet, some posters seem to think this is dangerous. On the few occasions I have ventured out, social distancing has been observed pretty much without fail.

    Am I missing something?

    Posters think everything is dangerous. Boards is worse than WhatsApp for sowing worry. Shutdown Boards and WhatsApp and many problems would-be solved.


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    #78
    CaoinDory
    Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭CaoinDory


    STB. wrote: »
    It is going to happen. Limited numbers will not play ball when the gravity is explained.

    I agree. Once again it is a minority of people who are just self centred and are gonna cause disaster. But sure what's new.


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    #79
    aido79
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 5,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭aido79


    CaoinDory wrote: »
    I agree. But what do we do with the people who are not doing it properly? That is my problem with it. For these people, who seem to think they are above everyone else, I think they would need to be forced into lockdown to make them realise.

    Alot of people are practising social distancing and if everyone would, the country could continue at a slower, but still functioning pace.

    That's the biggest problem so far. I don't think the severity of the situation has sunk in with some people. I honestly don't know what the best course of action is. I just don't think a longterm shutdown is practical.


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    #80
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    To answer your question, there are not enough and the frontline staff need them more than some idiot that can't get the concept of social distancing.

    Oh. Ok. So the face masks are effective? If people where them then even during a "lockdown" they should be exempt?


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    #81
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    The One Doctor wrote: »
    Posters think everything is dangerous. Boards is worse than WhatsApp for sowing worry. Shutdown Boards and WhatsApp and many problems would-be solved.

    If only all the experts on Boards and WhatsApp offered their services to the HSE, this would be sorted in days


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    #82
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    STB. wrote: »
    There are NO EXPERTS.
    .

    You know this isn't the first virus that can be transferred between humans, yes?


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    #83
    FVP3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭FVP3


    The r0 of this virus is 2-3 max, where is the 4 coming from?

    And that is in conditions where it is business as usual, which isn't where we are. We have closed pubs, restaurants, and most shops, enforced social distancing in many places, and so on.


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    #84
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,585 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    aido79 wrote: »
    How long is a lockdown really practical for? I don't think it's the magic solution that a lot of people are hoping for. This all begun in Ireland and every other country with one case. If there is still one unknown infected person after the lockdown then the whole thing starts again.

    More testing and people following proper social distancing protocols would be a more effective strategy longterm in my opinion.


    In my case I don't see it as a magical solution, but I do see it as a way to both reduce the spread and identify those infected. It's all about avoiding a surge in cases that overwhelms the health system.

    If everybody stays home for 2 weeks, the symptoms will show for those who have it, and they can get the treatment they need, while not transmitting to (many) others.

    I don't get the idea that a lockdown might be necessary in future, but not yet - what are the conditions that make a lockdown necessary that do not exist right now?

    It reminds me of the saying about the best time to plant a tree - the best time was 20 years ago, the second best time is today.


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    #85
    aido79
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 5,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭aido79


    STB. wrote: »
    1 infects 4 which then rises exponentially.

    We have 40,000 cases backlogged for the past week or so.

    Its the only solution. Otherwise it will run rampant and overwhelm our limited health system.

    And when that happens, the doctors have to decide who gets the ventilators and who does not. That means there will a age/suitability cut off point and people are morphined to death to ease the fact that they cannot breathe, in isolation, with no family members present.

    I hope that underlines the gravity.

    I understand all of that but how long do you lockdown for? Until a vaccine or cure is found?


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    #86
    CaoinDory
    Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭CaoinDory


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    You know this isn't the first virus that can be transferred between humans, yes?

    I think what that person means is there are no experts I'm this specific virus yet as it is so new.


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    #87
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    smelly sock wrote: »
    Oh. Ok. So the face masks are effective? If people where them then even during a "lockdown" they should be exempt?

    They are only effective if they are N95 /N99 and worn properly. Which to date I haven't outside of a hospital environment see anyone wear them correctly. Far better to keep your distance. Masks and gloves ( wearers of these really amuse me) give a false sense of security. Better left for the frontline services.


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    #88
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Well I'll put it this way , I will listen to the advice coming from the WHO and our own public health experts as opposed to doom merchants on Boards .
    They may not be experts on this particular virus but their expertise is based on studies of pervious pandemics and transmission of infection.


    Doom merchants! Get your head out of the sand. You obviously have no idea or refuse to acknowledge whats coming down the tracks.

    HERES your EXPERT advise - we are struggling right now to even keep up with the testing phase and we don't have a handle on our numbers.

    "We have a simple message for all countries: TEST TEST TEST

    You must test and isolate

    You cannot fight a fire blindfolded and we cannot stop this pandemic if we do not know who is infected."

    WHO Director 16 March, 2020


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i_95rKQa6M


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    #89
    physioman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,239 ✭✭✭physioman


    There has been a massive overreaction to the beach/park situation. I went to the beach yesterday with kids and yes it was busy, car park was busy but the thing people aren't getting is that cars were coming and going at different times. On the beach nobody was within 3 metres of each other. It was a joy to see the happiness on people's faces and the quality family time people were having.

    It's common sense really. Wash your hands properly and frequently. Keep the physical distance.


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    #90
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    CaoinDory wrote: »
    I think what that person means is there are no experts I'm this specific virus yet as it is so new.

    Yes ,but they are going on like everyone's opinion is equally valid. This sort of "let's have a balance of opinions" crap that gets random anti vaxxers on television to give their views.

    In this case I'm going to side with the people who have been studying virus' for their careers.

    Some lad in an office job somewhere might end up blurting out what turns out to be the best advice , but hindsight is great isn't it? What about the other 50,000 lads who's advice turned out to be horse ****? How do we pick which of the 50,001 is the right one? I'll stick with the best odds, the people dealing with this stuff every day.


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    #91
    FVP3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭FVP3


    STB. wrote: »
    This is all nonsense.

    Confinement and shut down of non essential services is the next stage after social distancing. It is part of the flattening of the curve plan.

    Source for confinement being part of the plan? Leo just said it wasn't, he was trying the Korean methodology - South Korea didn't even shut the schools.

    The shut down of non essential services is already happening.
    The government has emergency powers now at its disposal.

    Limited numbers will not play ball even when the gravity of whats facing us is explained. They can be policed.

    The emergency powers will allow them to shut pubs and other large gatherings.

    Full lockdown isn't enforceable so it isn't going to happen. If it does happen a lot of middle class people will be indoors eating their pasta, while their dogs grow fat, while the feral youth kick balls against the door. Parts of Dublin are not policable now.


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