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why dont they move 'homeless' families out of Dublin to rural parts of Ireland?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,321 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Most cities have skyscrapers or similar to combat their population demands.

    Those who were lucky to buy property ages ago in the center, continue to live there and those with the appropriate incomes can buy/rent in the center also. The remainder live in the suburbs and commute in the mornings with the aim that as they get older/promoted/wealthier then they can either buy something closer to the center or move into the countryside.

    Most of the middle-aged professionals (in relationships/married/wChildren) I know, generally want to live in the countryside away from the pollution, noise etc of the city. It's the single people that push for the city areas. But ultimately the closer you are to the center, the more expensive everything is, and therefore out of reach for most.

    So basically, do we think allowing high rise in Dublin would be a major help in our 'crisis'?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,900 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    You can't just build up and expect that to solve the issue. Apartments have regularly been over priced, under sized and terribly built in this country.

    and Ballymun Towers really worked out well didn't it


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You can't just build up and expect that to solve the issue. Apartments have regularly been over priced, under sized and terribly built in this country.

    Building up means more than having an apartment block with 4 floors...

    Having Apartment complexes with 20 floors, and four towers per complex, (along with the services and underground parking common in other countries) would seriously help the situation.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Building up means more than having an apartment block with 4 floors...

    Having Apartment complexes with 20 floors, and four towers per complex, (along with the services and underground parking common in other countries) would seriously help the situation.

    "Under Sized," was meant to mean per unit. Not the building itself.

    Any apartment I've lived in, or been in has always been very small.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    NIMAN wrote: »
    So basically, do we think allowing high rise in Dublin would be a major help in our 'crisis'?

    I do.
    Riskymove wrote: »
    and Ballymun Towers really worked out well didn't it

    And just because it didn't work once means that we can't assess the problems/failures, and implement a better system the next time?

    It's bizarre this attitude that just because something didn't work before, therefore we can't ever do it again with improvements.

    Plenty of countries around the world use apartment blocks. You really believe that we can't create a better apartment complex environment than, say, China?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    Just been hearing on the radio news this morning that some families in the Gresham Hotel in Dublin and other Hotels in Dublin that the hotels will no longer be accepting payments for 'homeless' families from various departments soon ...

    My simplistic view at the moment without thinking about it too hard (gives me a headache) - why dont they move the families out of Dublin to other rural parts of Ireland, not into hotels but do up some of these houses going on the market for 70,000 or whatever it is and ghost estates left by the celtic tiger?

    because while some are willing to do anything to ensure the wellbeing of their families, the majority of them refuse to move outside of a comfort zone. you also then have the fact that some people who are homeless, actually have jobs.

    sure even 25% of people reject houses in Dublin, it would probably be close to 90% if it was Dingle or Dunmanway.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    "Under Sized," was meant to mean per unit. Not the building itself.

    Any apartment I've lived in, or been in has always been very small.

    I've lived in Apartments with the same sq footage for the ground floor of my house. It really depends on the specifications when the apartments are built. I've had both small, large and rather huge apartments before.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,900 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove



    And just because it didn't work once means that we can't assess the problems/failures, and implement a better system the next time?

    Large scale high rise blocks of Social Housing will lead to ghettoisation - that is what they learned

    It isn't just Ballymun btw they have rolled back/demolished a number of such sites around the country

    High rise does hold out potential for improving the general housing situation by providing affordable housing for example or more units in the system

    But ultimately they are not approproiate for life long living or for changing family over time etc

    There needs to be sufficient supply of all types of housing


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,460 ✭✭✭Barry Badrinath


    You can't just build up and expect that to solve the issue. Apartments have regularly been over priced, under sized and terribly built in this country.

    I agree, thats why I chose the word "help" and not "solve".


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,321 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Any apartment I've lived in, or been in has always been very small.

    But those would suit singles and couples without kids rightly.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Atoms for Peace


    The population density of Dublin is relatively small for a capitol city, Berlin is nearly four times more dense.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,873 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    Blimey this post has grown - i started it, goes away from computer for a couple of hours and there are over 60 replies ..


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Riskymove wrote: »
    Large scale high rise blocks of Social Housing will lead to ghettoisation - that is what they learned

    It isn't just Ballymun btw they have rolled back/demolished a number of such sites around the country

    High rise does hold out potential for improving the general housing situation by providing affordable housing for example or more units in the system

    When did we learn that? Recently? Twenty-thirty years ago? Did we learn any reasons why it occurred?

    And TBH I don't agree with this idea of social housing except where it is severely limited in numbers. Affordable housing along with good terms for investment/payments by those involved makes far more sense to me.
    But ultimately they are not approproiate for life long living or for changing family over time etc

    There needs to be sufficient supply of all types of housing

    Tell that to Asian countries, where houses are solely for the rich (or for people outside the city where land isn't scarce). You'll often find the family, along with grandparents living in the apartment. Apartments are the norm for families living in most cities around the world. Houses aren't really that common, and definitely not affordable for most people with average incomes.

    The difference is this sense of entitlement here. You're entitled to a house when having a family. Meh. You're entitled to a house if you can afford it. If you can't afford it, get an apartment and put up with having so many people in a relatively small area.


  • Registered Users Posts: 511 ✭✭✭tawnyowl


    So far? Athlone to Dublin is slightly less than an hour by car or train. Plenty of options closer to Dublin than Athlone, but even if you went as far as Galway, it's still only a bit above 2 hours travel. You really believe that 1 or 2 hours is too far? :rolleyes:

    Athlone to Dublin Heuston is around 75-90 minutes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,321 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    How come there are high rise complexes around the world that only millionaires can afford to live in?

    These are apartment blocks too.

    Maybe it says something about the people in them than the buildings themselves. Buildings don't turn themselves into ghettos and their occupants into scumbags.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭marklazarcovic


    There are thousands of these people, jobless, homeless.

    Why not,ya know,train these people to like,build stuff.

    Like houses.

    Jobs providing houses made by the formerly jobless homeless.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    tawnyowl wrote: »
    Athlone to Dublin Heuston is around 75-90 minutes.

    Okie dokie. Athlone to Dublin airport by car is less than an hour. The expressway bus is similar. And the train is 75-90 minutes.

    My point still stands.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭Will I Am Not


    I listened to a woman on the radio this morning giving out about the government doing nothing for her. The host explained that the government are paying her hotel bill every month and she said “they would be better off putting that money towards a mortgage for me”
    In a way it makes sense with the figures involved but the bang of entitlement off her was unreal.

    She rang in initially to explain how tough she had it being homeless.
    She is living in a 4 star hotel room paid for by the taxpayer, with her 2 kids and her partner.
    She has no bills, in receipt of social welfare payments, children’s allowance etc. And to top it off her partner works.

    One of her complaints was she had to eat out when she couldn’t go to her parents for dinner. Also complained about having to get up early because the school was too far away.

    I get that there are many genuine cases but this woman and the many more like her need to get a grip on reality. Makes a mockery of actual homeless people imo.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,321 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    I listened to a woman on the radio this morning giving out about the government doing nothing for her. The host explained that the government are paying her hotel bill every month and she said “they would be better off putting that money towards a mortgage for me”
    In a way it makes sense with the figures involved but the bang of entitlement off her was unreal.

    She rang in initially to explain how tough she had it being homeless.
    She is living in a 4 star hotel room paid for by the taxpayer, with her 2 kids and her partner.
    She has no bills, in receipt of social welfare payments, children’s allowance etc. And to top it off her partner works.

    One of her complaints was she had to eat out when she couldn’t go to her parents for dinner. Also complained about having to get up early because the school was too far away.

    I get that there are many genuine cases but this woman and the many more like her need to get a grip on reality. Makes a mockery of actual homeless people imo.

    You may get used to this sense of entitlement, cos its only going to get worse as the years pass.

    Keep handing these folk things, they want more the next time.

    Ireland is a country full of moaners, and its getting worse. From this brigade, to the ones I heard on the radio the other day claiming our hospitals are like Third World hospitals. Sh1t like that makes my blood boil. If these folk had to live in another country for a few weeks, they'd know how good they have it in Ireland.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,873 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    s4uv3 wrote: »
    A lot of posts in this thread giving out about homeless people, the unemployed, and junkies playing the system. Really, imo, it's the system that's completely fuuuuucked. If the system wasn't so lenient and playable, we wouldn't have half these problems.
    Hate the game, not the playaz.

    I literally was just about to post exactly this! What in gods name are people on about! Of course the the entire thing is a piss take! But if it is there to be abused, people will do it! Like anyone would. Its the system that is the problem, people taking advantage of the system, legally, as if it isnt human nature :rolleyes: it doesnt take just the lowly peasants to do this, sure dont venture capitalists, the vulture funds, everyone push things as far as they can "legally" and often also illegally?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 728 ✭✭✭ethical


    ....of course when the Gov rubberstamps the Right to Abortion,the country will be rid of all the homeless problems!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,321 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    I literally was just about to post exactly this! What in gods name are people on about! Of course the the entire thing is a piss take! But if it is there to be abused, people will do it! Like anyone would. Its the system that is the problem, people taking advantage of the system, legally, as if it isnt human nature :rolleyes: it doesnt take just the lowly peasants to do this, sure dont venture capitalists, the vulture funds, everyone push things as far as they can "legally" and often also illegally?

    I suppose you're right.

    Apple are meant to pay 12.5% tax but pay 0.05% cos they can. Same logic I guess.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    NIMAN wrote: »
    If these folk had to live in another country for a few weeks, they'd know how good they have it in Ireland.

    They're never going to live in another country because they can't live that far from Dublin. If the countryside is too far, then another country is beyond them, :rolleyes: (although they might be enlightened from their sun holiday to Ibiza).


  • Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭PistolsAtDawn


    They could be mixed in estates with working people

    So some people have to work so they can afford to pay for a house while these wasters get a house for free right next door. Fuk that, I say put the parents back on the streets and the kids up for adoption. Probably not a popular opinion on here but my opinion none the less.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    ethical wrote: »
    ....of course when the Gov rubberstamps the Right to Abortion,the country will be rid of all the homeless problems!

    Hardly. Unless they can get welfare support to pay for the abortion. Will it count as a disability benefit?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭Will I Am Not


    Here’s the link if anyone wants to listen.
    She comes in after the first caller...

    http://www.98fm.com/podcasts/Dublin_Talks/98FMs_Dublin_Talks/64348/Woman_Claims_Homeless_People_Are_Scamming_The_System


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,562 ✭✭✭✭Green&Red


    Pelvis wrote: »
    National unemployment is approx 6%. Are you saying the majority of those in or waiting for social housing are unemployed?
    Absolutely


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,388 ✭✭✭Cina


    Here’s the link if anyone wants to listen.
    She comes in after the first caller...

    http://www.98fm.com/podcasts/Dublin_Talks/98FMs_Dublin_Talks/64348/Woman_Claims_Homeless_People_Are_Scamming_The_System

    Mm, I think I'll pass. I don't like listening to things that make me want to go on murderous rampages.


  • Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭PistolsAtDawn


    A lot of them also work and their place of work is more than likely Dublin. If they are having difficulty affording somewhere to live in Dublin, I doubt they'd be able to afford the commute.

    I doubt many of them are working.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,844 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    Move them to Sligo.

    I'd rather be homeless.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 983 ✭✭✭Stephen Strange


    Step 1: Build wall around Cork. It will be the greatest wall ever built.

    Step 2: put homeless people in Cork, along with all people from Cork who had previously escaped.

    Step 3: Profit???


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Many country people have to move far away from their home and families to attend third level or secure employment.

    Life often involves making sacrifices to better oneself.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭Dr Crayfish


    I have lots of friends who ended up in places like Cavan, Laytown, Stamullen wherever the f*ck that is, Clonee etc, all from Dublin 5 area. They all commute to work.
    Why should social housing recipients get to live in their desired area if people breaking their bollocks working can't?


  • Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭PistolsAtDawn


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Because, even homeless people have family and friend ties and I think its unfair to give somebody a housing option so far outside the city they are from.

    I and many others like me had to leave my home county to get work, why can't these bums do the same. How is that unfair on them?


  • Registered Users Posts: 852 ✭✭✭oxygen


    Step 1: Build wall around Cork. It will be the greatest wall ever built.

    Step 2: put homeless people in Cork, along with all people from Cork who had previously escaped.

    Step 3: Profit???

    Strep 4 : Make the people from Cork pay for it!
    :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,844 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Move all those homeless Dubs to Mayo. It might improve their chances of winning an All Ireland.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Riva10 wrote: »
    why dont they move 'homeless' families out of Dublin to rural parts of Ireland?
    "Out of sight, out of mind springs" to mind. Bit of embarrassment to tourists I suppose.
    Or you can always claim "NIMBY"

    Not an embarrassment, just a needless expense to the taxpayer


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If you can't provide for yourself, you shouldn't be bringing kids into the world that you can't provide for.

    I keep hearing this on boards as if having kids is a conscious choice


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    I keep hearing this on boards as if having kids is a conscious choice

    Is it an unconscious choice then?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Dublin is now a major hub, with all the jobs and the attractiveness that it offers for workers, families etc.

    Obviously it will always be hard to house people who think they are automatically entitled to a house in this European capital, where house prices and rents are sky high and every property is over-subscribed.

    Got to thinking, how do other major European cities handle these issues? Surely Paris, Rome, Madrid, Barcelona, London, Manchester, Amsterdam, Copenhagen etc all have people who want houses in the centre of the city, near everything.

    How do their Governments handle this?

    they dont.....their situations are far worse than here.


    number of rough sleepers -

    London - 7,500
    Paris - 30,000
    Madrid - 700

    Dublin - 184

    and yet theres anarchy over the Dublin figures. if anything, it shows the government are actually doing a great job here to keep the numbers so low.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭Dr Crayfish


    I keep hearing this on boards as if having kids is a conscious choice

    You can excuse one accident, maybe even 2, but people with 3 or 4 kids who can't afford them must be braindead, or trying to work the system. It's not the 1950s, contraception is available.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I keep hearing this on boards as if having kids is a conscious choice

    Responsible use of birth control seems to work for the rest of us. :rolleyes:


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    If you can't provide for yourself, you shouldn't be bringing kids into the world that you can't provide for.

    splinter65 wrote: »
    Is it an unconscious choice then?

    The problem isn't in having kids. But if that's how you feel, you can throw that up on a few posters for the repeal referendum. Doesn't help much after the fact though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,873 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    they dont.....their situations are far worse than here.


    number of rough sleepers -

    London - 7,500
    Paris - 30,000
    Madrid - 700

    Dublin - 184

    and yet theres anarchy over the Dublin figures. if anything, it shows the government are actually doing a great job here to keep the numbers so low.

    I agree with that! this "homeless" issue has been blown way out of proportion, as is typical here, the bleeding heart brigade and RTE might do well to focus on bigger scandals, like the following. I have the largest amount of sympathy for workers being killed on rent or ridiculous property prices!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    The problem isn't in having kids. But if that's how you feel, you can throw that up on a few posters for the repeal referendum. Doesn't help much after the fact though.

    Is abortion the only answer for people who don’t want/can’t afford kids?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,599 ✭✭✭sashafierce


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,935 ✭✭✭TallGlass


    Building up is a good idea but not a solution.

    And it isn't just people/families refusing to go down the country, it's people refusing to move either side of the River Liffy within Dublin.

    What's to say, the same people won't just refuse an apartment, because they want a house and a garden for the 10 children.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭Will I Am Not


    I have lots of friends who ended up in places like Cavan, Laytown, Stamullen wherever the f*ck that is, Clonee etc, all from Dublin 5 area. They all commute to work.
    Why should social housing recipients get to live in their desired area if people breaking their bollocks working can't?

    The mind boggles. People move out of Dublin and commute there to work because they can’t afford it so their tax money can be used to house people that don’t work in that area?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Is abortion the only answer for people who don’t want/can’t afford kids?

    2 of you seem to be rather extreme in suggesting they are adding to the problem, why not provide an extreme solution in response?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭AnneFrank


    lots of sympathy here, sure why not send them to a camp with gas showers,
    it worked for me


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