why dont they move 'homeless' families out of Dublin to rural parts of Ireland?

Oranage2

It seems obvious to what's needed to solve the homeless problem.

We need a state of the art gated community with a mixture of semi-detached houses and modern spacious apartments depending on the recipients needs. The community should be fully serviced with it's own garda station, hospital and school.

Other services should include:

- Alcohol and drug rehabilitation centre that offers daily house visits and counseling, but also for the poor individuals who are not quite ready to get clean, methadone and other substitutes are available (judgmental free).

- Supermarket that delivers free of charge (of course)
- Social welfare/post office
- School run service that bring your children to and from school
- Takeaways with a wide selection of international cuisine and daily unemployed discounts

It just seems so obvious i'm surprised the government hasn't already made these facilities and hired 100s of staff to provide these services.

Fann Linn

Oranage2 wrote: »

It seems obvious to what's needed to solve the homeless problem.

We need a state of the art gated community with a mixture of semi-detached houses and modern spacious apartments depending on the recipients needs. The community should be fully serviced with it's own garda station, hospital and school.

Other services should include:

- Alcohol and drug rehabilitation centre that offers daily house visits and counseling, but also for the poor individuals who are not quite ready to get clean, methadone and other substitutes are available (judgmental free).

- Supermarket that delivers free of charge (of course)
- Social welfare/post office
- School run service that bring your children to and from school
- Takeaways with a wide selection of international cuisine and daily unemployed discounts

It just seems so obvious i'm surprised the government hasn't already made these facilities and hired 100s of staff to provide these services.

Well considering the same govt is paying a couple of million to a hotel for 14 families, all of your list above mightn't be so far fetched.

Idbatterim

Daisy78 wrote: »

From a budget and planning perspective it makes far more sense to invest in higher density conglommerations than rural areas when it comes to infrastructure, jobs,etc. Our flawed planning system has allowed dispersed development right across the country with a proliferation of one off houses in rural areas. And every one of these households expects to be first in line when it comes to investment in infrastructure, they want their cheap house but they also want their broadband, water, good roads and access to well paying jobs,etc. There needs to be some expectation management and realism here, there is only so much money in the pot and it has to be spent in areas where the benefits are maximised in terms of the population served.

absolutely true and look a the pittance that is contributed in LPT .18%, i.e. less than one fifth of one percent!!!

do not put any social affordable housing in high rise though. I would not have them in there. For more reasons than they might just leave the deep fat fryer on...

Idbatterim

Daisy78 wrote: »

They have high rise developments in other European cities which function perfectly well. We need to get over our hangups about high rise buildings in this country.

BUT BUT BUT BAllymun! christ look at these towers in london, new york, thousands of cities across the world, the most prestigious places to live in cities! We run a bad experiment, but hundreds of howriya's in them and then write off tower living :rolleyes:

the "left" haven't been in government in this country for a few years now and still the "wellfare state" continues.

Im not sure about! over 50% income tax over E34,000 spectacular euro! Welfare recipients in budget 2017 received an extra E5 a week, more than those on 34,000 received in a usc cut, which was something like E4.50. Pretty left wing to me...

Andy From Sligo

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Really??

How many of these families with 3+ children go to mass every week? Or are afraid to use contraception because of the church?

I'd guess little to none.

drummed into them from a young age lol

Wheeliebin30

Oranage2 wrote: »

It seems obvious to what's needed to solve the homeless problem.

We need a state of the art gated community with a mixture of semi-detached houses and modern spacious apartments depending on the recipients needs. The community should be fully serviced with it's own garda station, hospital and school.

Other services should include:

- Alcohol and drug rehabilitation centre that offers daily house visits and counseling, but also for the poor individuals who are not quite ready to get clean, methadone and other substitutes are available (judgmental free).

- Supermarket that delivers free of charge (of course)
- Social welfare/post office
- School run service that bring your children to and from school
- Takeaways with a wide selection of international cuisine and daily unemployed discounts

It just seems so obvious i'm surprised the government hasn't already made these facilities and hired 100s of staff to provide these services.

I fooken love this!!!!!!

Wheeliebin30

Idbatterim wrote: »

BUT BUT BUT BAllymun! christ look at these towers in london, new york, thousands of cities across the world, the most prestigious places to live in cities! We run a bad experiment, but hundreds of howriya's in them and then write off tower living :rolleyes:

Im not sure about! over 50% income tax over E34,000 spectacular euro! Welfare recipients in budget 2017 received an extra E5 a week, more than those on 34,000 received in a usc cut, which was something like E4.50. Pretty left wing to me...

Name your party so?

Youre full of spunk, give us the solution.

Andy From Sligo

pilly wrote: »

It was a good idea moving them into flats that were built with sub standard material because it was cheaper?

Now I know you're on a wind up or incredibly stupid.

good idea moving a large amount of people into one relatively small place, although personally I am not a huge fan of high rise flats - the intention was not there to move them into flats knowing that one day a fire like that was going to happen - yes the foresight was bad, the using the cheaper flammable covering was bad, the legislation of not putting sprinklers in flats is a bad idea - but as I say, you have a huge amount of people you have to house in one small area then high rise flats are the way to go

Doltanian

These moochers don't want to move to the country because they wouldn't have everything so convenient and shock horror they might have to actually work like the rest of the country men and women.

Lyra Fangs

wakka12 wrote: »

Because, even homeless people have family and friend ties and I think its unfair to give somebody a housing option so far outside the city they are from.

I'm living in a city far away from where I'm from. I had to come here to get a job in order to be able to pay for food, etc. Why should I have to remove myself from my support network in order to pay my way but homeless people shouldn't have to even when it's for a free house??

Andy From Sligo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

good idea moving a large amount of people into one relatively small place, although personally I am not a huge fan of high rise flats - the intention was not there to move them into flats knowing that one day a fire like that was going to happen - yes the foresight was bad, the using the cheaper flammable covering was bad, the legislation of not putting sprinklers in flats is a bad idea - but as I say, you have a huge amount of people you have to house in one small area then high rise flats are the way to go

The problem with larger apartment blocks in the UK/Ireland is that, in the past, they've tended to follow the same philosophy. Grimy, small apartments, with paper thin walls, and share access for the whole floor. There's been little to no consideration for the numbers of people involved, except in the more expensive (and privately controlled/built) apartment blocks. I've found that there is often very little difference between UK/Irish apartment blocks and the really cheap apartments you find in Ibiza...

However, when you go to countries like China, Japan, or the US, which has a longer history of doing apartment blocks, you'll be faced with more of a choice. In the US, the cramped blocks for those with less money.. and the more spacious blocks for those with plenty of money. Plenty of ****ty apartments around... but that comes down to earlier constructions, bad planning, and less investment initially...

Considering the amounts of money that are being talked about in relation to this housing "crisis", and the relatively low numbers in trouble, it makes sense that we'd have the investment needed to build relatively cheap apartment blocks with better planning... Although, I'm getting the feeling that sense is in short supply these days.

Lyra Fangs

Lyra Fangs wrote: »

I'm living in a city far away from where I'm from. I had to come here to get a job in order to be able to pay for food, etc. Why should I have to remove myself from my support network in order to pay my way but homeless people shouldn't have to even when it's for a free house??

Because you're working, earning a salary, and must be punished for those "privileges"...

Andy From Sligo

RobbingBandit wrote: »

To hell or to Connaught eh OP

dont say same thing - connaught not that bad lol

1eg0a3xv7b82of

If u have a council house or are on a council house waiting list, When u need the state to feed cloth and house you and yours, u can consider yourself a failure in life.
These people have given up on life and as a result are failures

Andy From Sligo

Deleted User wrote: »

When I lived in Xi'an, I lived in a 26 floor apartment tower. There were four towers in the complex. Private security at the gates. Inside the complex, there was a supermarket, dry-cleaners, and a management office. Small park area with outdoor public toilets. Secure underground parking. Outside the complex itself, to service the other 6 similar complexes nearby, there was a small cinema, access to the metro/subway (5 mins walk), a few other supermarkets, a larger department store nearby, police station, etc.

Now... I'm wondering why China can build these apartment towers quickly, with substandard materials in many cases, but Ireland (as a 1st world nation), cannot, and can't seem to conceive of doing it better.

Ahh, because it was done badly in the past, and therefore we cannot ever improve on the past... :rolleyes:

one of the biggest things you need is an effective 24hr private security firm and you need amenities close by and you need to keep maintenance tip top condition when things like lifts go wrong, smashed windows, broken lighting , non working cctv then if they arent repaired almost instantly thats when the place becomes run down and that when you have real problems with these high rise flats and unsociable carry on's

Andy From Sligo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

one of the biggest things you need is an effective 24hr private security firm and you need amenities close by and you need to keep maintenance tip top condition when things like lifts go wrong, smashed windows, broken lighting , non working cctv then if they arent repaired almost instantly thats when the place becomes run down and that when you have real problems with these high rise flats and unsociable carry on's

I guess I'm a bit of an optimist. I genuinely believe that if you let people know that this is their last chance at help, that their responsibility to keep the place unbroken/clean is tied to their continued existence there, that they will play ball, and seek to keep the place. If they don't, then kick em out and replace them with another family/unit. If they're given a clean, well-organized/planned block with the facilities/services on-site or nearby to maintain the place properly.

Kick out enough families/people and word will get around that there is no messing about with the terms of habitation.

The problem with this country is the unwillingness to draw a line, which says you're ****ed if you cross it. Instead, there's always another line, and another, etc.

Andy From Sligo

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

I would have no problem with lots and lots of apartments in Dublin, people will live in them if they're a decent standard. However if you ever read any of the one off housing threads here, it seems about half the population of Ireland can't deal with even having neighbours near their dwelling, like some weird social illness, never mind being in a tower. Management fees can be quite steep in apartments here though. Does anyone know if social welfare people pay management fees or does the welfare pay them for them too?

trouble is, if you did get decent standard high rise apartments/flats whatever you want to call them they will still be too costly to rent because its in the city - so your back to square one . Whats needed is affordable well built and serviced flats so maybe the flats would be better off built out of city centres and be more affordable to rent - then move all the people who cannot afford to rent in the city centres and the 'homeless' families to them

Andy From Sligo

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

A large percentage of people in Ireland won't live anywhere near other people is why. Why would they want to live in an apartment in their one horse town when they can build a massive ugly mansion in the countryside?

many people say "oh when I win the lotto, I am gonna live in a mansion" - well most mansions are huge and cold need a lot of cleaning and maintenance and are really not that cosy and comfortable ... mind you on the other had i suppose if you won big on the lotto you just get people to do the maintenance and the cleaning for you ... and turn the heating up LOL

Andy From Sligo

NIMAN wrote: »

There's absolutely no need for a block of apartments out in small villages and towns. I have no issue with big houses in the countryside, they are not involved in this debate at all.

But there is a need in Dublin. And same for all big cities where land and space is at a premium.

yes but flats should be cheap to rent (because they have no garden etc) but if you build flats in the cities they will be automatically dear to rent because of the location ... - so that again doesnt help people on a low income in the cities that need housing -

Now if you are talking about people needing cheap accommodation and have no job in the city, or have no intention of working at all or will never get a job then they really can get by without living in the city and move out of the city .. and these ones who have their rent subsised or paid for it must be better for whoever is paying rent allowance to have these people live in cheaper property than pay their premium rent on a city location/property no?

Andy From Sligo

Oranage2 wrote: »

It seems obvious to what's needed to solve the homeless problem.

We need a state of the art gated community with a mixture of semi-detached houses and modern spacious apartments depending on the recipients needs. The community should be fully serviced with it's own garda station, hospital and school.

Other services should include:

- Alcohol and drug rehabilitation centre that offers daily house visits and counseling, but also for the poor individuals who are not quite ready to get clean, methadone and other substitutes are available (judgmental free).

- Supermarket that delivers free of charge (of course)
- Social welfare/post office
- School run service that bring your children to and from school
- Takeaways with a wide selection of international cuisine and daily unemployed discounts

It just seems so obvious i'm surprised the government hasn't already made these facilities and hired 100s of staff to provide these services.

seems obvious .. but then again at a huge cost wouldnt it be ... that then makes it look un-attractive!

Andy From Sligo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

seems obvious .. but then again at a huge cost wouldnt it be ... that then makes it look un-attractive!

And there's no endgame. With all the benefits, it'll just produce more people intent on getting similar benefits. I think we have enough issues with the current welfare state.

TBH I suspect we're ****ed. This crisis will just give rise to an expensive short-term answer, without considering how we would deal with it happening again in the future, and it'll be shelved as being something for future governments to solve.

Andy From Sligo

Doltanian wrote: »

These moochers don't want to move to the country because they wouldn't have everything so convenient and shock horror they might have to actually work like the rest of the country men and women.

with some people it might prompt them to get a bit healthier and shed some weight ... so you live in the countryside , your nearest shop is about a mile away but your dying for your packet of fags and your small staple grocery items, but you dont own a car and theres only a bus oce a day / week ... then if your desire is so great you gonna have to get off yer fat ass and walk to the shop ... but here is the incentive, you will find that people out in the shticks (i believe city folk use the eloquent word cultchies) often walk on the side of the road (no pavements here tonto) and very normally because culchies are more friendly than people from the big cities they actually have the time of day to see someone walk on the grass verges and very normally pull over and ask if you wanna lift - I know this will feel very alien to people who live in big cities, actually someone waving or saying hello or offering you a lift ) but thats what we are like

Andy From Sligo

Deleted User wrote: »

I guess I'm a bit of an optimist. I genuinely believe that if you let people know that this is their last chance at help, that their responsibility to keep the place unbroken/clean is tied to their continued existence there, that they will play ball, and seek to keep the place. If they don't, then kick em out and replace them with another family/unit. If they're given a clean, well-organized/planned block with the facilities/services on-site or nearby to maintain the place properly.

Kick out enough families/people and word will get around that there is no messing about with the terms of habitation.

The problem with this country is the unwillingness to draw a line, which says you're ****ed if you cross it. Instead, there's always another line, and another, etc.

I suppose the magic thing to do here in these situations is a plan , and to date I dont know of anyone anywhere who has ever done this effectively, there must be an answer out there - but what goes on is that you have a troubled anti-social family and all the councils seem to do (and they I reckon think its a solution) is move them out and they cant of course make them homeless ... so what do they do? - they move them to another area (of their present location or somewhere else in the country) ... so all this is doing is moving problems from one area , to another - theres got to be another solution apart from locking the whole family up - but thats what I have seen , and to be honest some of these families couldnt care less where they live ... so when they have been moved to their location then its not long they start 'fitting in' and start robbing stuff or having parties at 4am or mugging people. - so this is also going back to what someone else was saying about keep the crim's in the big city because rural ireland dont want them kind of families living in their area (NIMBY) - but yeah if dublin authorities decided "your rent is high, your living in a big city, no-one in the family works , your on benefits and allowances and there is no need for you to live in a big city with high rent we are going to move you to cheaper accommodation away from the city" - well then this is can and does happen - next thing your quaint / sleepy little rural village with no Garda station becomes infected with scrotes

Andy From Sligo

Deleted User wrote: »

And there's no endgame. With all the benefits, it'll just produce more people intent on getting similar benefits. I think we have enough issues with the current welfare state.

TBH I suspect we're ****ed. This crisis will just give rise to an expensive short-term answer, without considering how we would deal with it happening again in the future, and it'll be shelved as being something for future governments to solve.

it will be something for the future governments to say "we are still cleaning up the mess the last government left behind" - as an excuse of course, when they cant fix it either

Oranage2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And there's no endgame. With all the benefits, it'll just produce more people intent on getting similar benefits. I think we have enough issues with the current welfare state.

TBH I suspect we're ****ed. This crisis will just give rise to an expensive short-term answer, without considering how we would deal with it happening again in the future, and it'll be shelved as being something for future governments to solve.

With our general elections every 4 years or so short term solutions are all our government offer as that's what the people want or else they'll vote for another party that will offer shorter term solutions with out ever dealing with long term and better impacting decisions.

Idbatterim

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Name your party so?

Youre full of spunk, give us the solution.

full of spunk? lol! I dont have a party, used to vote FG. In terms of housing, I would now agree more with some of the parties on the left, selling off state land, to private developers, who will then sell the most profitable property type for the highest price, totally understandable. I dont blame them, I blame the total dereliction of duty by FG and FF...

You cannot have this insane situation we have here where some are housed for near free and others earning low or even moderate incomes are being hammered with private market rates. Get the state back involved in building. Nama can borrow for near nothing. Developers dont have risk so will be happy with a lower margin. The states opposition to this is ideological...

Idbatterim

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

it will be something for the future governments to say "we are still cleaning up the mess the last government left behind" - as an excuse of course, when they cant fix it either

I dont know about that, the only thing that is going to change, will be whether it is FF or FG as the senior party!