why dont they move 'homeless' families out of Dublin to rural parts of Ireland?

end of the road

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

I'd love to see some stats on how many of the people in emergency accommodation / on the housing lists are actually people that are / were down on their luck, How many people that had jobs even at say average salaries of 30k ish a piece and lost them, people that had a house and lost it etc...

I reckon it's fcuk all.

you'd reccan wrong. because funnily enough, nothing is black and white in this world.

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

Those people moved home, went back to college or started some sort of adult education, upskilled or got a better job and got back into the market or into private rented accommodation.

yes, some of them did. a large number of them weren't so fortunate.

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

It never seems to be John or Jane single person in these situations It's John & Jane 50 kids.

yes, the media will always cover the most extreme cases because it's what sells and are what get people talking.

Andy From Sligo

some unemployed people might move out of Dublin and down into the countryside (and I mean countryside, 1 bus a week, 56k Dial up non existent broadband, no garda station for 50 miles etc..) and be near fields and decide they like farming and become a farmer and cannot understand why they didnt move sooner!

Andy From Sligo

I am gonna make a brash comment here - people who work in Dublin should be able to live in Dublin (same for other big cities) because what would be keeping long term SW recipients in a city if they are never gonna work in the city?

and if you are talking about then Ireland will become a 2 tier system it already is - everything revolves around big cities and they get their transport, modern facilities, better road infrastructure, most money allocated and as per normal the rest of Ireland (small towns and villages) loose out! and have to make do with services that wouldnt be out of place in a third world country.

Now, when I ask about transport, or broadband, or other useful services or why rural Ireland is still 5 years behind other cities in Ireland a lot of the time I am told that its because we havent got the population that the big cities have (regardless of whether the people in the cities have jobs or not) so if these people up in Dublin are on the Homeless register if dublin or other cities authourities farmed these people out to rural areas of Ireland then the population in rural Ireland will increase and then hopefully with the increased population by rights we will get our better public transport services, better broadband, better health services, Garda stations opened back up, better roads and infrastructure, brought up to the 21st century, modernised and all that because the population will be there yes?

- is my logic right?

end of the road

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

It just annoys me that people give you stick for even the mention of the scroungers which I would believe most these people are.

no, nobody gives you stick for mentioning the few scroungers. you might get stick if you make up things such as "most of the people on the housing list are wasters/scroungers" which the evidence disproves. don't make up things, you won't get stick.

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

What parent lets thier child and grandchildren sleep in hostels. None that's who. Even if you only had a couch to give you would.

nope, some would have no other option but to have their children and grand children sleep in hostels, due to not being in a position to help. again, we come back to the reality that the world isn't black and white.

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

Take away the options, You take whats offered, You get no choice and that's that. You'd soon see the list getting shorter

no you wouldn't. taking away the choice only suits those who just want to have a hard done by rant. the reality is the system self-regulates, where someone doesn't want a house, someone else will take the house.

pilly

topper75 wrote:

You are forgetting that we have a min wage in this country by law. There is no job in Ireland that would see them unable to pay for the commute from affordable villages. Things would get tighter and luxuries would be foregone, but that is what economics is all about - prioritizing expenditure when resources are limited. Alternatively there would have to be a short period of transitional employment and they get work elsewhere.

You genuinely think someone on minimum wage could afford to live in let's say Athlone for example and commute to Dublin?

You're not living in the real world.

Minimum wage is 350 a week. A commute like that would cost at least 100 a week.

pilly

Gatling wrote:

They do it in London quite well ,you live in emergency accommodation or are homeless the council find you a property in a cheaper area ,you get keys and or a train,bus tickets likely In another county and you either accept there and then or they discharge you from their duty care and your off the housing list ,

You're using London as an example after 70 people burnt to death in one of their ghettos last year. Really?

end of the road

yosser hughes wrote: »

No, you couldn't. The vast majority of 'homeless' are there by choice or have never tried in life.
They're not 'down on their luck' Luck had nothing to do with it.
Having kids when you have never had a job and no intention of ever getting one and rely on other workers to support you; is an absolute disgrace.
Apologists and bleeding heart merchants if anything, exacerbate the problem and actually condemn people to a life on welfare. It's infnatilsation and it's not what the original welfare state envisioned. It should never have become a way of life, but it has and this has been propagated by the left who feel a life of welfare is all people want and deserve.

no, the vast majority of those in temporary accommodation aren't there by choice and most of them tried hard in life. they are down on their luck as their circumstances changed hugely. there are no Apologists and bleeding heart merchants, and no amount of ranting about the jobless having children will change the fact that they do and will continue to do so, and those children need support regardless of our opinion of their parents. the amount of people who wellfare has become a way of life for, is very very small, and is blown out of proportion. of course it would be better if those people didn't choose that path, but realistically as they are unreliable and no employer would go near them, they are best left. the "left" haven't been in government in this country for a few years now and still the "wellfare state" continues.

Andy From Sligo

pilly wrote: »

You're using London as an example after 70 people burnt to death in one of their ghettos last year. Really?

im pretty sure the people who lived there , before what happened there were quite happy there - ghetto dont come into it. in reality i think someone/something started the fire there , wrong building materials were used - that tragedy had nothing to do with a ghetto or anything along them lines i dont think ... in fact i never ever heard anything about those flats being a part of a ghetto ...

that was a very good idea what the council done moving them people into the flats a lot of them were not from British decent and from what I here there was quite a good sign of community in them flats before the fire as well as after the fire .

yosser hughes

end of the road wrote: »

no, the vast majority of those in temporary accommodation aren't there by choice and most of them tried hard in life. they are down on their luck as their circumstances changed hugely. there are no Apologists and bleeding heart merchants, and no amount of ranting about the jobless having children will change the fact that they do and will continue to do so, and those children need support regardless of our opinion of their parents. the amount of people who wellfare has become a way of life for, is very very small, and is blown out of proportion. of course it would be better if those people didn't choose that path, but realistically as they are unreliable and no employer would go near them, they are best left. the "left" haven't been in government in this country for a few years now and still the "wellfare state" continues.

You are part of the prob;em. Your attitude is that people are to be pitied rather than encouraged. Your solution is more welfare with no hard questions rather than actual incentives to work and pay your own way.
Well meaning but dim individuals have led us down the welfare rabbit hole and created a class of people infantilised by the state. Who feel the state should provide them with everything.Personal responsibility is an alien concept.
The 'left' are pervasive right throughout our society.The left wing mindset is hugely influential in our media and legal circles. We have never had a right wing government and don't have one now either.

pjohnson

pilly wrote: »

You're using London as an example after 70 people burnt to death in one of their ghettos last year. Really?

They would be overjoyed if this happened here. Wouldn't have to send them to "rural" Ireland then!

Big Bag of Chips

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

blame the irish catholic church for that as well their ethos used to be "go forth and multiply" and are against contraception -

Really??

How many of these families with 3+ children go to mass every week? Or are afraid to use contraception because of the church?

I'd guess little to none.

pilly

Andy From Sligo wrote:

that was a very good idea what the council done moving them people into the flats a lot of them were not from British decent and from what I here there was quite a good sign of community in them flats before the fire as well as after the fire .

It was a good idea moving them into flats that were built with sub standard material because it was cheaper?

Now I know you're on a wind up or incredibly stupid.

cursai

yosser hughes wrote: »

You are part of the prob;em. Your attitude is that people are to be pitied rather than encouraged. Your solution is more welfare with no hard questions rather than actual incentives to work and pay your own way.
Well meaning but dim individuals have led us down the welfare rabbit hole and created a class of people infantilised by the state. Who feel the state should provide them with everything.Personal responsibility is an alien concept.
The 'left' are pervasive right throughout our society.The left wing mindset is hugely influential in our media and legal circles. We have never had a right wing government and don't have one now either.

You're right but it's unpalatable and not warm and cosy enough.
Giz a job. Go on.

Gatling

pilly wrote: »

You're using London as an example after 70 people burnt to death in one of their ghettos last year. Really?

Yes I am ,

And it works

Gatling

end of the road wrote: »

no, the vast majority of those in temporary accommodation aren't there by choice and most of them tried hard in life.

This is only your assumption though

_Brian

marklazarcovic wrote: »

There are thousands of these people, jobless, homeless.

Why not,ya know,train these people to like,build stuff.

Like houses.

Jobs providing houses made by the formerly jobless homeless.

Bit the problem is they don’t want to be trained, they’re already getting everything for free so why work for the same things.

Daisy78

Riskymove wrote: »

Dravokivich wrote: »

You can't just build up and expect that to solve the issue. Apartments have regularly been over priced, under sized and terribly built in this country.

and Ballymun Towers really worked out well didn't it

They have high rise developments in other European cities which function perfectly well. We need to get over our hangups about high rise buildings in this country.

RobbingBandit

To hell or to Connaught eh OP

Daisy78

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I am gonna make a brash comment here - people who work in Dublin should be able to live in Dublin (same for other big cities) because what would be keeping long term SW recipients in a city if they are never gonna work in the city?

and if you are talking about then Ireland will become a 2 tier system it already is - everything revolves around big cities and they get their transport, modern facilities, better road infrastructure, most money allocated and as per normal the rest of Ireland (small towns and villages) loose out! and have to make do with services that wouldnt be out of place in a third world country.

Now, when I ask about transport, or broadband, or other useful services or why rural Ireland is still 5 years behind other cities in Ireland a lot of the time I am told that its because we havent got the population that the big cities have (regardless of whether the people in the cities have jobs or not) so if these people up in Dublin are on the Homeless register if dublin or other cities authourities farmed these people out to rural areas of Ireland then the population in rural Ireland will increase and then hopefully with the increased population by rights we will get our better public transport services, better broadband, better health services, Garda stations opened back up, better roads and infrastructure, brought up to the 21st century, modernised and all that because the population will be there yes?

- is my logic right?

From a budget and planning perspective it makes far more sense to invest in higher density conglommerations than rural areas when it comes to infrastructure, jobs,etc. Our flawed planning system has allowed dispersed development right across the country with a proliferation of one off houses in rural areas. And every one of these households expects to be first in line when it comes to investment in infrastructure, they want their cheap house but they also want their broadband, water, good roads and access to well paying jobs,etc. There needs to be some expectation management and realism here, there is only so much money in the pot and it has to be spent in areas where the benefits are maximised in terms of the population served.

Dr Crayfish

The Grenfell tower may have been of a poor standard but it was by no means a ghetto, its pretty much next to Notting Hill, lovely area of affluent people and social housing, they seem to do it well in London. I would gladly have lived there when I was in London but it was out of my pay range!
The likes of the nearby Trellick tower started off as social housing and now the flats sell privately for a fortune. So high rise buildings can work.
Anyway we can’t keep comparing any high rise schemes to Ballymun, sooner or later we’ll have to build up.

Daisy78

Daisy78 wrote: »

From a budget and planning perspective it makes far more sense to invest in higher density conglommerations than rural areas when it comes to infrastructure, jobs,etc. Our flawed planning system has allowed dispersed development right across the country with a proliferation of one off houses in rural areas. And every one of these households expects to be first in line when it comes to investment in infrastructure, they want their cheap house but they also want their broadband, water, good roads and access to well paying jobs,etc. There needs to be some expectation management and realism here, there is only so much money in the pot and it has to be spent in areas where the benefits are maximised in terms of the population served.

When I lived in Xi'an, I lived in a 26 floor apartment tower. There were four towers in the complex. Private security at the gates. Inside the complex, there was a supermarket, dry-cleaners, and a management office. Small park area with outdoor public toilets. Secure underground parking. Outside the complex itself, to service the other 6 similar complexes nearby, there was a small cinema, access to the metro/subway (5 mins walk), a few other supermarkets, a larger department store nearby, police station, etc.

Now... I'm wondering why China can build these apartment towers quickly, with substandard materials in many cases, but Ireland (as a 1st world nation), cannot, and can't seem to conceive of doing it better.

Ahh, because it was done badly in the past, and therefore we cannot ever improve on the past... :rolleyes:

nice_guy80

Deleted User wrote: »

Lets take Athlone instead.
houses available? check. Yup. and plenty of land nearby for more.
school needs more pupils? Need, no. Space for more, yes. Could easily reopen another two schools to compensate if needed.
small village shop? check. Plenty.
village pub? check. Plenty.
sports facilities - check. Plenty.
school bus scheme? Yup. Available. Needed? Only if you decide to live in the countryside.

It's funny the way many posters here talk about moving them to the countryside and then picks a tiny village or a town that's completely rundown as an example.

Yes! Lets pick Longford, because it's a hole and easier to pass off as impossible. Or a village in the middle of nowhere, because Dubliners are really going to love that.

sorry for picking a village I actually think needs more families to move into the area. Abbeylara is a lovely village by the way with a great history.
I could have picked any village in the midlands or west
or any larger town in the midlands or west

nice_guy80

there are apartment blocks built in Stockholm from the 1930s that are among the most desirable places in the city to live
they were very well designed and very well built and are still quality buildings to this day.
with communal washing/drying, bike parking and storage facilities
the building is run by a committee of the property owners
and a mix of unit types - retail units, open studio apartments, one bedroom, two bedroom, three bedroom

why can't we do that properly in towns and cities across Ireland?

nice_guy80

nice_guy80 wrote: »

sorry for picking a village I actually think needs more families to move into the area. Abbeylara is a lovely village by the way with a great history.
I could have picked any village in the midlands or west
or any larger town in the midlands or west

I know... but when you pick a small town/village, then you get the inevitable objections about being stuck in the bog. Typically, the smaller places have been hit hardest by the recession and people leaving for greener pastures, which means the town has often turned into a bit of a dive with nothing to offer people. Longford, for example, has turned into such a dive. Whereas many of the towns on/near the Dublin-Galway motorway have plenty of services and potential for growth.

Doesn't matter though. Nobody is going to force them to live outside Dublin. Everyone is apparently entitled to live in areas far too expensive for them to afford...

weldoninhio

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

blame the irish catholic church for that as well their ethos used to be "go forth and multiply" and are against contraception - maybe they would like to contribute to the homeless situation .. come to think of it why dont they if they dont already - why does it fall back to the government/tax payers to sort out homeless people .... surely the churches in ireland can buy up some properties across ireland and house people if they dont already .. the churches in Ireland seem to have a lot of money ... especially the catholic ones

I don’t think Steo, Jacinta and their kids Shakira, Beyoncé and Britney are big church goers.

NIMAN

nice_guy80 wrote: »

there are apartment blocks built in Stockholm from the 1930s that are among the most desirable places in the city to live
they were very well designed and very well built and are still quality buildings to this day.
with communal washing/drying, bike parking and storage facilities
the building is run by a committee of the property owners
and a mix of unit types - retail units, open studio apartments, one bedroom, two bedroom, three bedroom

why can't we do that properly in towns and cities across Ireland?

Sound too much like common sense, thats why.

Dr Crayfish

nice_guy80 wrote: »

there are apartment blocks built in Stockholm from the 1930s that are among the most desirable places in the city to live
they were very well designed and very well built and are still quality buildings to this day.
with communal washing/drying, bike parking and storage facilities
the building is run by a committee of the property owners
and a mix of unit types - retail units, open studio apartments, one bedroom, two bedroom, three bedroom

why can't we do that properly in towns and cities across Ireland?

I would have no problem with lots and lots of apartments in Dublin, people will live in them if they're a decent standard. However if you ever read any of the one off housing threads here, it seems about half the population of Ireland can't deal with even having neighbours near their dwelling, like some weird social illness, never mind being in a tower. Management fees can be quite steep in apartments here though. Does anyone know if social welfare people pay management fees or does the welfare pay them for them too?

Dr Crayfish

NIMAN wrote: »

Sound too much like common sense, thats why.

A large percentage of people in Ireland won't live anywhere near other people is why. Why would they want to live in an apartment in their one horse town when they can build a massive ugly mansion in the countryside?

weldoninhio

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

I would have no problem with lots and lots of apartments in Dublin, people will live in them if they're a decent standard. However if you ever read any of the one off housing threads here, it seems about half the population of Ireland can't deal with even having neighbours near their dwelling, like some weird social illness, never mind being in a tower. Management fees can be quite steep in apartments here though. Does anyone know if social welfare people pay management fees or does the welfare pay them for them too?

“Pay” hahahaha, are you crazy. They’re ENTITLED to live there, they don’t pay.

NIMAN

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

A large percentage of people in Ireland won't live anywhere near other people is why. Why would they want to live in an apartment in their one horse town when they can build a massive ugly mansion in the countryside?

There's absolutely no need for a block of apartments out in small villages and towns. I have no issue with big houses in the countryside, they are not involved in this debate at all.

But there is a need in Dublin. And same for all big cities where land and space is at a premium.