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Teenager and child shot in Dublin halting site

1356

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,977 ✭✭✭PandaPoo


    You regard halting sites as "first class accommodation"...:D:D

    Travellers in the area near where I'm from were given 6 or so houses, brand new, next to a shopping centre. They've been burned down more times than I can remember, always burnt out cars there, shopping trolleys all over the place, rubbish duped wherever they like around the area. Anyone who knows Nutgrove would know where I'm talking about.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    pilly wrote: »
    It's much more likely to happen in the settled community and when it does a child will be killed cause those guys have an awful lot more fire power.

    Except it has happened and the child didn't die. I'm not sure what this pissing contest is about really. That traveler scumbags are worse than settled scumbags?

    http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/ballyfermot-shooting-brother-six-year-old-gun-3701879

    Edit: And nobody has been charged for it either. Code of silence isn't restricted to travelers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    You regard halting sites as "first class accommodation"...:D:D

    Well they seem to regard living there as first class as houses don't appeal to them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,279 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    They dont pay bin charges or electricity.

    Why are they allowed not pay when others have too?

    they aren't. the ESB have the facilities availible to remove electricity if they don't pay.
    One rule for them and another for settled profile.

    Hush hush now say nothing....

    they are subject to the same rules as us. whether those rules are enforced on them or not is an issue but they are subject to the same rules.
    splinter65 wrote: »
    All the minor children should be taken into care.
    The adults should be given 1 hour to take any belongings and then the place should be bulldozed to the ground.
    Not allowed on the housing list.
    No rent supplement or HAP.
    Any further babies taken into care.

    not financially viable and would likely breach some international and other human rights law.
    eviltwin wrote: »
    I live in the area and I've often wondered why social services don't step in. The adults seem to be barely functional a lot of the time and the kids look badly neglected.

    they haven't got the resources. they are underfunded like a lot of things in ireland.
    splinter65 wrote: »
    Pavee point on the radio this morning telling all of including the Gardai the ambulance and the fire brigade and DCC that we have no choice, we must allow them time to sort their grievances out, why?
    Because feuding like this is part of their culture.

    which station was this on?
    i heard them suggesting for travelers to use the mediation facilities availible.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭222233


    Children should never be subjected to any adult drama and certainly never violence.

    Feeling a bit desensitised hearing news about shootings at this stage, becoming way too common.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    They dont pay bin charges or electricity.

    Why are they allowed not pay when others have too?

    they aren't. the ESB have the facilities availible to remove electricity if they don't pay.



    they are subject to the same rules as us. whether those rules are enforced on them or not is an issue but they are subject to the same rules.



    not financially viable and would likely breach some international and other human rights law.



    they haven't got the resources. they are underfunded like a lot of things in ireland.



    which station was this on?
    i heard them suggesting for travelers to use the mediation facilities availible.

    Would you have any suggestions at all as to how the small innocent children caught up in this drama could be protected from their families?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    PandaPoo wrote: »
    Travellers in the area near where I'm from were given 6 or so houses, brand new, next to a shopping centre. They've been burned down more times than I can remember, always burnt out cars there, shopping trolleys all over the place, rubbish duped wherever they like around the area. Anyone who knows Nutgrove would know where I'm talking about.

    This is it, think the 2 on the left are still out of use, haven't looked for a while.

    https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.2885816,-6.2676542,3a,60y,180h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_SE5IXmVyMNsx4-9adp5rQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    JP Liz V1 wrote: »
    Was the shooter looking for the baby's father?

    Heres the man himself doing some sort of show today at the site.
    II%20%20DSC_8883.jpg

    Looks like a lovely chap

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mediation-talks-offered-to-feud-families-after-baby-shot-in-attack-36401035.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭PeterParker957


    cisk wrote: »
    Heres the man himself doing some sort of show today at the site.
    II%20%20DSC_8883.jpg

    Looks like a lovely chap

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mediation-talks-offered-to-feud-families-after-baby-shot-in-attack-36401035.html

    And his reason for doing that would be ???? Genuinely have no idea!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    And his reason for doing that would be ???? Genuinely have no idea!

    It’s a sort of war dance.
    “ I’m so angry and frustrated about the grave injustice visited on my family and I that feel I want to strip to the waist and bare knuckle fight any male member of the other family to the death in order to assuage my feelings of fury. Please note how well built I am and how fearsome I look. Verily, I say unto you, I demand satisfaction !”.
    For a man, hours and hours day after day after month after year of doing absolutely nothing ( wouldn’t tidy up the area wouldn’t put a lick of paint on the house wouldn’t pick up the kids broken toys) have to be filled in some way, and creating an imaginary war with another family is quite time consuming, that’s why there’s so many feuds.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭PeterParker957


    splinter65 wrote: »
    It’s a sort of war dance.
    “ I’m so angry and frustrated about the grave injustice visited on my family and I that feel I want to strip to the waist and bare knuckle fight any male member of the other family to the death in order to assuage my feelings of fury. Please note how well built I am and how fearsome I look. Verily, I say unto you, I demand satisfaction !”.
    For a man, hours and hours day after day after month after year of doing absolutely nothing ( wouldn’t tidy up the area wouldn’t put a lick of paint on the house wouldn’t pick up the kids broken toys) have to be filled in some way, and creating an imaginary war with another family is quite time consuming, that’s why there’s so many feuds.

    Sounds bang on to be honest!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,707 ✭✭✭flutered


    they aren't. the ESB have the facilities availible to remove electricity if they don't pay.



    they are subject to the same rules as us. whether those rules are enforced on them or not is an issue but they are subject to the same rules.



    not financially viable and would likely breach some international and other human rights

    they haven't got the resources. they are underfunded like a lot of things in ireland.



    which station was this on?
    i heard them suggesting for travelers to use the mediation facilities availible.
    travelers get mediation, we get jail


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,707 ✭✭✭flutered


    And his reason for doing that would be ???? Genuinely have no idea!
    in rowing/fighting circumstances having one clothes like this is an invitation for a broken jaw


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,279 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    flutered wrote: »
    travelers get mediation, we get jail


    we also get mediation, travelers also get jail.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    AnneFrank wrote: »
    It's much more likely ?, can you back that up with proof ?

    How many times this year alone have there been fatal shootings?

    How many of those have been carried out by travellers?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    There's far higher numbers of settled people in Ireland, and I haven't heard of any cases like this over here before. And a lot more firepower than a shotgun? I'd hazard the majority of Irish gun owners have hunting rifles, not an awful lot more firepower than a shotgun in any case.

    Are you talking out your arse or can you back any of that up?

    How many fatal shootings have there been in Ireland this year alone?

    How many carried out by travellers?

    I'm not talking about the average gun owner with his hunting rifle and well you know that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,547 ✭✭✭Foxhound38


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Creating an imaginary war with another family is quite time consuming, that’s why there’s so many feuds.

    It's all fun and games until a baby gets shot.

    Fcuking hell, what chance has that child got?

    And I can't help but wonder whether Tulsa would be acting on a child in a more traditional setting who's parents were involved in a feud which could and indeed has brought about violence, and if so why not in this case. It's the only chance this child is likely to get.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,237 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    pilly wrote: »
    It's much more likely to happen in the settled community and when it does a child will be killed cause those guys have an awful lot more fire power.

    I wouldn't agree with you there, Philly.
    Apart from Drug Dealers and their ongoing territory wars, shootings over arguments/slights etc are very rare in the settled community.
    Now they (Travellers) usually attack each other physically or with edged weapons, with the machete and the slashhook being favourite, but gun attacks are far from unknown.

    https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/police-appeal-to-those-involved-in-wedding-shooting-come-forward-before-any-more-bloodshed-happens-30985719.html


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    I wouldn't agree with you there, Philly.
    Apart from Drug Dealers and their ongoing territory wars, shootings over arguments/slights etc are very rare in the settled community.
    Now they (Travellers) usually attack each other physically or with edged weapons, with the machete and the slashhook being favourite, but gun attacks are far from unknown.

    https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/police-appeal-to-those-involved-in-wedding-shooting-come-forward-before-any-more-bloodshed-happens-30985719.html

    Now come on, you had to go back to 2015 to find that one.

    You can't just leave out the drug dealers when talking about the settled community, they are a part of the settled community whether we like it or not. And the facts don't lie, they've killed far more people this year than travellers have.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,446 ✭✭✭LollipopJimmy


    they aren't. the ESB have the facilities availible to remove electricity if they don't pay.



    Just on this, having worked for one of the suppliers for a long time and sitting near the sales and revenue team I always got wind of the goings on, disconnections on halting sites required numerous visits usually and a cost for extra crew plus local Gardai. If the Guards didn't accompany the crew the disconnection often didn't happen. Also we had many cheques from the HSE clearing debts. Most of this big debts were ran up due to interference with meters rather than just non payment of bills also, magnets, dangerous bypassing and physically smashing the esb meters.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,237 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    So I had to go back 2 years to find a Traveller shooting at a wedding? Can you find me a similar example of a murder at a wedding of regular settled people?
    Can you fnd examples of settled people bring slash hooks to funerals?
    Considering Travellers make up only a half of 1% of the population, there should be hundreds of examples for you to choose from.
    I exempted drug dealers from the equation, because they are criminals first and foremost.
    99.9% of settled people are not criminals.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,166 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Just on this, having worked for one of the suppliers for a long time and sitting near the sales and revenue team I always got wind of the goings on, disconnections on halting sites required numerous visits usually and a cost for extra crew plus local Gardai. If the Guards didn't accompany the crew the disconnection often didn't happen. Also we had many cheques from the HSE clearing debts. Most of this big debts were ran up due to interference with meters rather than just non payment of bills also, magnets, dangerous bypassing and physically smashing the esb meters.

    Que?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,237 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Que?

    A strong magnet, placed on the side of a meter, can slow it down and reduce the number of units showing on the meter as having been used.
    Usually found out when the culprit miscalculated the date, and forgets to remove it before the meter man arrives to take a reading!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,446 ✭✭✭LollipopJimmy


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    So I had to go back 2 years to find a Traveller shooting at a wedding? Can you find me a similar example of a murder at a wedding of regular settled people?
    Can you fnd examples of settled people bring slash hooks to funerals?
    Considering Travellers make up only a half of 1% of the population, there should be hundreds of examples for you to choose from.
    I exempted drug dealers from the equation, because they are criminals first and foremost.
    99.9% of settled people are not criminals.

    So you exempted the ones that skew your stats?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    Rumour has it they caught the wrong man... maybe even the wrong person altogether...


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    cisk wrote: »
    Heres the man himself doing some sort of show today at the site.
    II%20%20DSC_8883.jpg

    Looks like a lovely chap

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mediation-talks-offered-to-feud-families-after-baby-shot-in-attack-36401035.html

    So am i reading this right:

    The misfortunate baby that was shot is this chaps nephew (i.e. his twin brothers son).
    Who is reported to be 17.
    With the mother is reported to be 29.


    Was there a statutory sexual assault there i wonder.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    So am i reading this right:

    The misfortunate baby that was shot is this chaps nephew (i.e. his twin brothers son).
    Who is reported to be 17.
    With the mother is reported to be 29.


    Was there a statutory sexual assault there i wonder.

    The 17 yr old is the child's uncle


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    eviltwin wrote: »
    The 17 yr old is the child's uncle

    Exactly.
    Whose twin is the father?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,237 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    So you exempted the ones that skew your stats?
    OK, so you don't like the fact that I didn't include the Kinnehan/Hutch type feud into the general settled population, when comparing with the Traveller population tendency for violent array.
    Can you explain away this statistic.
    Travellers are 0.6 of 1% of the population of Rep. of Ireland.
    Traveller males are 10% of the male prison population.
    Traveller women are 22% of the female prison population.

    Those figures are from the Probation Service, in case you think I made them up.
    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/disproportionate-number-of-travellers-in-prison-population-1.3263524%3fmode=amp


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Exactly.
    Whose twin is the father

    The twin of your man there I took it, not the twin of the 17 yr old


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    And his reason for doing that would be ???? Genuinely have no idea!

    This gentleman was to be seen on the RTE News clip last night,shouting abuse in the direction of the camera.
    It appeared to be more about the presence of the media than the actual violent event.
    What is most perplexing about this scenario,is the apparent suggestion that some form of soft-mediation be engaged in before,or instead of a proper criminal investigation.
    If the authorities concede this principle in relation to this group,then a very dangerous precedent will have been set.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,446 ✭✭✭LollipopJimmy


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    OK, so you don't like the fact that I didn't include the Kinnehan/Hutch type feud into the general settled population, when comparing with the Traveller population tendency for violent array.
    Can you explain away this statistic.
    Travellers are 0.6 of 1% of the population of Rep. of Ireland.
    Traveller males are 10% of the male prison population.
    Traveller women are 22% of the female prison population.

    Those figures are from the Probation Service, in case you think I made them up.
    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/disproportionate-number-of-travellers-in-prison-population-1.3263524%3fmode=amp

    It's not that I didn't like anything but if you're going to compare then compare properly. These Kinahan-Hutch types you refer to are 'settled people' so need to be included in comparisons. I'm not sticking up for travellers here, I think they are the cause of many/all of their own problems and happily hide behind culture and so called racism when in actual fact they do not want to integrate or be part of a society of mutual respect.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    Female has now been arrested in connection with this shooting.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Vincent Vega


    I really don't understand why across the board discrimination, blanket statements and overall ridicule of Travellers seem to be allowed much greater leeway by Mods than other forms of hatred :confused:

    If anybody came on here and put forth generalisations about say, ' all those africans' or 'them jews' they'd be dealt with much more swiftly.

    It's in every single thread.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,397 ✭✭✭✭Digital Solitude


    pilly wrote: »
    How many fatal shootings have there been in Ireland this year alone?

    How many carried out by travellers?

    I'm not talking about the average gun owner with his hunting rifle and well you know that.

    How are we to infer you're talking about fatal shootings by a subsection of the gun owning settled population by referring to what you're talking about as "it" and "those guys" ffs

    I dunno how many shootings there are, maybe it's just their culture? Whatevver subsection of gun owners it is you're on about


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,279 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Just on this, having worked for one of the suppliers for a long time and sitting near the sales and revenue team I always got wind of the goings on, disconnections on halting sites required numerous visits usually and a cost for extra crew plus local Gardai. If the Guards didn't accompany the crew the disconnection often didn't happen. Also we had many cheques from the HSE clearing debts. Most of this big debts were ran up due to interference with meters rather than just non payment of bills also, magnets, dangerous bypassing and physically smashing the esb meters.

    oh i know the tricks used, but it still stands that you do have the facility to remove electricity for non-payment. it's up to the relevant supplier to use it.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭marklazarcovic


    I don't really understand all the facilities being offered to them to settle a family argument,all this help being offered and recommend costs money, for them to sort a family argument. It's actually bonkers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭Red_Wake


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    OK, so you don't like the fact that I didn't include the Kinnehan/Hutch type feud into the general settled population, when comparing with the Traveller population tendency for violent array.
    Can you explain away this statistic.
    Travellers are 0.6 of 1% of the population of Rep. of Ireland.
    Traveller males are 10% of the male prison population.
    Traveller women are 22% of the female prison population.

    Those figures are from the Probation Service, in case you think I made them up.
    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/disproportionate-number-of-travellers-in-prison-population-1.3263524%3fmode=amp

    Tbf, at least he acknowledges that comparing travellers to violent gangs is more fair than comparing them to people.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,446 ✭✭✭LollipopJimmy


    oh i know the tricks used, but it still stands that you do have the facility to remove electricity for non-payment. it's up to the relevant supplier to use it.

    Suppliers have to get the ESB to do it, it's not always done, in fact it's hardly ever done on halting sites and all the while the bills are going up and up until eventually it's done or the bill is paid by the HSE or DSP.

    Some halting sites are now having the bills paid by the CoCo who have had to install check meters inside locked steel cabinets. The lengths companies and coco's are having to go to to stop electricity and gas being interfered with on halting sites is laughable


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,279 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    I don't really understand all the facilities being offered to them to settle a family argument,all this help being offered and recommend costs money, for them to sort a family argument. It's actually bonkers.

    if it helps any bit to de-esculate a potentially violent situation then it's money well spent.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    I really don't understand why across the board discrimination, blanket statements and overall ridicule of Travellers seem to be allowed much greater leeway by Mods than other forms of hatred :confused:

    If anybody came on here and put forth generalisations about say, ' all those africans' or 'them jews' they'd be dealt with much more swiftly.

    It's in every single thread.

    Because IMO
    - most Irish people have exposure to the negative aspects of Traveller culture

    - they aren't a separate race to majority, it's a cultural difference*

    - there is massive issues in the culture

    - travellers are very traditionally Irish Catholic in a lot of ways also from what I have seen they tend to be fairly vocal of their dislike of the other groups that boards deems protected classes e.g LGBTQ, other religions, non-white people.

    - traveller stuff isn't " trendy" in Ireland

    I'm fairly politically incorrect and not arguing for tighter moderation but the constrast is interesting between them and other groups.

    * Which leads to the questions like. If an American dislikes African-American culture but is fine with Africans immigrants is that racism?the two groups have very different socio-economic outcomes after all


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭PeterParker957


    I don't really understand all the facilities being offered to them to settle a family argument,all this help being offered and recommend costs money, for them to sort a family argument. It's actually bonkers.

    if it helps any bit to de-esculate a potentially violent situation then it's money well spent.

    No. It's not.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    I really don't understand why across the board discrimination, blanket statements and overall ridicule of Travellers seem to be allowed much greater leeway by Mods than other forms of hatred :confused:

    If anybody came on here and put forth generalisations about say, ' all those africans' or 'them jews' they'd be dealt with much more swiftly.

    It's in every single thread.

    It's incredibly hard for mods to be consistent because there are so many and they don't have the exact same opinions. They do their best but it's a tough gig. I do take your point though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,279 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    No. It's not.

    it absolutely is . especially if it prevents another yesterday.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭PeterParker957


    No. It's not.

    it absolutely is . especially if it prevents another yesterday.

    Giving them money will not prevent another yesterday.

    Enforcing the law will.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,446 ✭✭✭LollipopJimmy


    Giving them money will not prevent another yesterday.

    Enforcing the law will.

    I think you may have misread something, there's no cash incentive here


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,279 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Giving them money will not prevent another yesterday.

    Enforcing the law will.

    i believe in enforcing the law as well. i have been saying it needs to be enforced for years. however, the mediation may also help in de-escalating a situation, so i have no problem on money being spent on it.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    I think you may have misread something, there's no cash incentive here

    Counselling and Mediation services do not come cheaply,and are often priced at a level which puts them far beyond those who are most in need of them.

    It would also be interesting to find out of there are any Counsellors or Mediators with Traveller specific backgrounds,as given the,supposedly unique,aspects of Traveller Culture which regularly culminate in "feuds" around the State.

    Unless Counselling/Mediation is being provided pro-bono,then cash is most definitely an issue in this.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,317 ✭✭✭✭Snake Plisken


    I really don't understand why across the board discrimination, blanket statements and overall ridicule of Travellers seem to be allowed much greater leeway by Mods than other forms of hatred :confused:

    If anybody came on here and put forth generalisations about say, ' all those africans' or 'them jews' they'd be dealt with much more swiftly.

    It's in every single thread.

    Lol you haven’t read much of the Jew hating threads on boards they run and run, until certain anti-Semite gets challanged he reports the post and the thread eventually gets shutdown due the hurt feelings of said individual!
    As for this traveller situation no doubt somebody from one of these rival families is going to pay with their lives, unless the Guards tackle the issue and arrest the main culprits!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,446 ✭✭✭LollipopJimmy


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Counselling and Mediation services do not come cheaply,and are often priced at a level which puts them far beyond those who are most in need of them.

    It would also be interesting to find out of there are any Counsellors or Mediators with Traveller specific backgrounds,as given the,supposedly unique,aspects of Traveller Culture which regularly culminate in "feuds" around the State.

    Unless Counselling/Mediation is being provided pro-bono,then cash is most definitely an issue in this.

    That's still not 'giving them money', letting then shoot the arse off one another all over the city and having guards waste time sitting outside halting sites will cost a lot more. The mediation will cost a lot less than the cost of the technical bureau, the armed units and hospital spaces used yesterday


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