Moderation of trans issue and terms

taxAHcruel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123503257#Comment_123503257

Perhaps. I guess we will not know without trying it? I suspect you might be wrong though just based on my own experience of creating a similar sub forum for very similar reasons.

My experience of it - though in admittedly a very different context - was that it attracted people who wanted to debate the issues on both sides and did not much care for what words or language were used during the debate.

Which means that while it might be "unwelcoming" for people who do struggle when certain common terms and phrases are used - it did result in quite rigorous and useful debate between people who were more invested in discussing the issues and less invested in discussing the form the debate took.

So I dunno. As I said my original position was just to ask the mods if they had considered it. But you have pushed me to consider upgrading it to a "lets try it and see" recommendation :)

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123503202#Comment_123503202

Really? You don't see anything similar in suggesting all men are abusers and murderers, so we should isolate them from society and your assumption that trans women are sexual offenders?

Pretty sure it's obvious to everyone else.

Raichų

mother of God. Can we not all just get along together? Can’t we just be friends?

Trans folks are no harm to you. Just like gay people are no harm. I know some people can’t believe that, it’s ok, but you’re wasting your time trying to rectify their own issue with the aforementioned.

Look, this is an evolution from when society were worried that gay men would be tryna rape them or touch kids or whatever other silly things they thought were going to happen.

This talk of changing rooms is also stupid. Oh no the trans people might see the naked ladies- what about the potential lesbians in the room are you not worried about them spying on you? What would exclude them from wanting to do so more than a trans person?

I mean it’s silly. Just more pearl clutching bullshit. I’ve bigger problems to take with things like “birthing person” and “chest feeding” than I ever will with people just living their best life.

Also it demonstrates a significant amount of ignorance to suggest that you’re happy to call “John” by “Jane” if that’s what they want- but it’s not what they want it’s what they believe. They are not a man. They are a woman. That’s their belief. That’s how they feel.

Look, anyone who wants to get an idea of how a trans person feels, if you’re a manly man, go get your wife’s fanciest clothes, put on her makeup, get your nails done and see how you feel.

If you feel weird and out of place and like you don’t belong in the clothes and skin you’re in right now, congratulations you now understand (to some extent) how a transgender individual might feel being forced to behave as someone they’re not.

How you feel is largely irrelevant as well. It’s not about you. That’s the thing. Would you be happy if someone followed you around pointing out how wrong you are all the time?

Well you see science said you’re not a woman because you’ve got a penis so…

yeah, science also says god ain’t real. But you know what lads? I’m not gonna go down to my nanny’s house and start lecturing her and throwing her holy water and rosary beads in the fcuking bin am I?

You’d want to grow up every single one of you. 17 pages and 3 days going back and forth accusing each other of every type of infraction and demanding each other are various types of “phobes”.

For all the talk about what trans people want- do you think they want this crap? This circus every time they’re fcuking mentioned?

Call me crazy lads- but I think transgender people just want to be left alone.

taxAHcruel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123503268#Comment_123503268

I would have a few suggestions but probably not worth writing one of my apparently famed "walls of text" about unless the mods actually expressed and interest in starting such a forum. At which point I would be happy to throw in some ideas based on my previous experience of having created a very similar sub forum for quite similar reasons on another (religion related) site.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123503257#Comment_123503257

Agreed - and only someone interested in minimising them, would want a hand in running such a forum.

Probably offer themselves up to mod it as well, just to be sure they thoroughly protect and uphold the "rights" of anyone who wants to be as disrespectful and demeaning towards trans people as they wish.

OscarMIlde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123503293#Comment_123503293

It's interesting you dismissed me saying I would be uncomfortable as a woman being naked with a biological man as pearl clutching bullshit.

You don't seem to show the same disdain for the reply to me which was concerned about how a transwoman with breasts would feel getting changed in a men's changing room.

Why is one groups concerns can be dismissed out of hand, but the other groups are to be treated with the greatest respect and cannot be questioned.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123502972#Comment_123502972

You are posting regularly on a thread saying a band are grand to show support for terrorists and to tell people to kill politicians.

Yet you are horrified that people are upsetting people's feelings by words.

So showing support for terrorists and calling for murder is alright, but saying bad words is terrible.

I am greatly bemused by that logic

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123503475#Comment_123503475

Would you ever stick to the topic at hand?

I believe in artistic freedom, and I believe that transgender individuals should be left the f*ck alone. It's not rocket science, not are they mutually exclusive.

Sorry you edited your post after I quoted you.

So showing support for terrorists and calling for murder is alright, but saying bad words is terrible.

I am greatly bemused by that logic

You can take up that first point in the other thread, it has nothing to do with moderation of anti trans rhetoric on boards.ie

And I couldn't give a fiddler's about your ignorance.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123503402#Comment_123503402

You didn't answer me either when I asked how you would know if a trans man was using the same changing room as you.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123503486#Comment_123503486

So if they stood up on stage and said kill all the trans people that would be okay?

It would only be artistic freedom so it's okay?

Politicians are people and so are trans people.

What would be the difference?

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123503293#Comment_123503293

If your nanny was a cultist who was trying to impose her beliefs and ideology on me then you can rest assured I'd have something to say to her.

You're right though, transgender people do just want to be left alone to live their lives.

With that in mind, why does this topic keep coming up ad nauseam?

Hamsterchops

Is it my imagination or do trans rights trump all other rights! The last five or six years in particular and the trans activists have been very loud and very noisy as they bash up against women's rights groups like Sex Matters & For Women Scotland.

Shouting and demanding forced speech and chanting mantras like "transwomen are women" have been very counter productive IMO.

And YES, the trans must have their rights & protections, but so too must women & girls, blind people, deaf people, amputees, wheelchair users, those of religious faith of whatever denomination, they should all have their rights protected & respected, including people who identify as trans.

Just wish they (the activists) wouldn't be so fricking loud and abusive about getting their own way.

Biology rules.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123503514#Comment_123503514

More pertinently, would they be banned from boards for using such anti trans rhetoric? Because that is what this thread is meant to be discussing, not Kneecap and some imaginary statements.

baxterooneydoody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123503293#Comment_123503293

I see I got a mention, thanks. I can see no problem with trans men and women being left alone.

The problem is when the language used is coercive in wanting others to conform to their way of thinking, as you yourself has said its their "belief and feelings".

Now beliefs and feelings are fine but mean absolutely nothing to me as I won't do anything to go out of my way to hurt their beliefs and feelings but neither will I ever believe a man can be a woman or vice versa.

It's absolutely nonsensical to bring feelings and beliefs into scientific debate, it's akin to thoughts and prayers on Facebook after another school shooting in America.

Let trans people feel and believe what they want and may they live a long and happy life believing it but not to the detriment of my faith in science

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123503530#Comment_123503530

Because they're under attack especially over the last few years?

High profile bans, like the ban on high school trans girls playing soccer, which affected... ONE individual.

The right wing Christofascists are going after Trans people so when they feel effectively empowered, they'll go after more minorites. The gays? The disabled? They're already going after them. So yes, it's important that trans rights are recognised as human rights, because when we stop fighting, who knows who they'll come after next?

As for your pithy, "biology rules", it's not a million mile stretch from the claim of "Nature rules", "it's Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" bollockology that the right were using during the equal marriage referendum.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123503530#Comment_123503530

It's your imagination.

Raichų

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123503402#Comment_123503402

because that’s what it is.

Oscar how many times have you shared a changing room with a transgender person?

I don’t want your life story I want a straight answer?

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123503531#Comment_123503531

I would hope they would be banned if they said such things.

Based on your logic then I would expect you to be defending them.

Raichų

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123503521#Comment_123503521

if you’ll notice though the majority of these cult like people are not even trans! No one here vehemently defending and getting outraged on their behalf are trans.

Are any of you even LGBT actually?

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123503630#Comment_123503630

When they do that, you'll find out

OscarMIlde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123503628#Comment_123503628

It's not pearl clutching. I wouldn't be comfortable sharing a changing room with a member of the opposite sex. I am entitled to that feeling, and I should be entitled to a single sex environment for changing. If transwomen are uncomfortable changing with men, which I understand, then why not advocate for a third changing room in which they can change. Why should women have to give up our single sex spaces. Why our our feelings not as valid as those of transwomen?

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123503530#Comment_123503530

I'd say it's more you're a tad infatuated with complaining about transgender people rather than rights of others being ignored. The disproportionate obsession with transgender people is from those taking jabs at them

For Petes Sake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123503024#Comment_123503024

It goes back to what I said previously. Some people just want a bit of decency and basic manners for a small, vulnerable and well targeted group in society.

The other group couldn't give a f*ck about who they offend, and they're allowed to let loose on here yet if I push back on them, I'm the one warned. You don't really care about who you offend then, do you?

What are you concerned about if you sanction people for intentionally deadnaming and deadgendering someone? Someone in this very thread blamed trans people for 'the realities of women being dismissed, minimised or outright denied'.

Are you telling me you're worried if someone took offence to you sanctioning that? According to that poster rape, sexual assault, domestic violence etc aren't threats to those realities, but trans people.

And now in the 'transgender man (which is incorrect)' thread, you have posters defending a 16 year old trans child being subjected to a horrible campaign from anti-trans whackjobs in the States.

Why don't you tell us what the line is here? That might be a starting point? Because at the moment it feels like anyone can have carte blanche to say whatever they want because 'f*ck your feelings'.

However, I call Conor McGregor a r*t and I get sanctioned for it.

Raichų

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123503547#Comment_123503547

Who’s trying to take away your beliefs? I certainly am not. I don’t care what you believe. I just don’t really understand why what you believe is more valid than what someone else does.

I know Santa Claus isn’t real, but I’m not going to go tell my 7 year old that. It’s pointless, will just upset him and make me an arsehole.

It’s not far removed from telling a trans person they’re biologically a man or woman. It’s pointless, will just upset them and make me an arsehole.

For Petes Sake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123503521#Comment_123503521

Because some people are just c*nts. That's the reality.

They take pleasure in punching down on small vulnerable sections and they haven't the manners they were born with.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123503663#Comment_123503663

How would you know if a trans man was using the same changing room? Seeing as you say you have no issue sharing with Trans men.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123503650#Comment_123503650

It would be artistic freedom so I know your opinion.

But yes to go back on topic then I don't see any convincing argument that has been put forward to update the rules of boards.

Raichų

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123503663#Comment_123503663

that’s some life story, it’s a shame when you were telling it to me you couldn’t include the instances where you’ve been subjected to a trans person invading your female only space?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123503680#Comment_123503680

You think posters should be allowed to post transphobic stuff?

Hamsterchops

But what qualifies as transphobic?

Any examples …

As mentioned in a previous post I posted the dictionary definition of a woman on boards last year and got myself banned, due to it being deemed to be transphobic (at that time).