Moderation of trans issue and terms

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507882#Comment_123507882

A quirke of the site rules prohibit pointing out who the anti-trans posters are, although it is plainly obvious.

You can’t call a racist “a racist” either, same goes for a bigot etc. It’s seen as attacking the poster, not the post.

I just don’t get why these people don’t just own it, why the charade and pretence? Are they ashamed of their views that they have to dress them up as fake concern and denial?

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507893#Comment_123507893

The site really is on its last operational legs. I don't think it's good enough if flame-baiting is only in some forum specific charters. I think it should be in the sitewide rules, which should be pinned to the main front page.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507906#Comment_123507906

A convenient quirk it would seem, let's you off the hook for providing any evidence of what you're saying.

Kind of like the way nobody can provide any evidence of the anti trans posting that's supposedly rampant all over the site.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507906#Comment_123507906

More often than not, they just don't want to be seen as "the bad guy", from my experience.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507911#Comment_123507911

You could always ask your trans friends?

OscarMIlde

I mean we've aleady been told that the phrase 'men cannot give birth' is transphobic despite it being a factual statement.

That's the level of allowable discourse some posters on this thread want, to imply that any reference to biology or truth is transphobic.

Asking society to wholesale deny reality and demonise anyone who doesn't is not a workable strategy for trangender people. Sooner or later something in life will come along to remind them of their actual biology (say a transwoman with prostate cancer) and they will have to deal with that. Pretending and burying one's head in the sand is not a viable way to deal with dysphoria. Pretending that it is is unfair to transgender indivduals and unfair to people whose rights are being impinged upon in support of this false reality.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507906#Comment_123507906

So show us the transphobic posts then?

This really is a complete farce.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507922#Comment_123507922

The whole issue is that there is a separation between biology and gender. I honestly get the feeling you're so close to understanding the trans issues from a trans perspective.

Not one trans person I know are blind to the fact that they are not the sex they were born, one reason being medical of course.

But they are asked to be treated socially as if they were.

One day I hope you can have a conversation with a trans individual about their life. I can see it completely opening your eyes.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507908#Comment_123507908

I think the site rules and forum specific rules are broad enough to cover all eventualities. Just look at the CA rules for example. It may not mention flamebaiting specifically but it's covers the types of posts you are talking about.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507937#Comment_123507937

Ok, have you a link to the site rules? I don't believe they do, which is why many posts disparaging minorities in general are allowed.

OscarMIlde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507757#Comment_123507757

I couldn't believe it when Dr Upton described biological sex as a "nebulous term which doesn't really mean anything". I would not want to be treated by a doctor who takes that view.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gx07xdpw5o

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507868#Comment_123507868

'When it comes to moderating trans issues and posts in general, moderators should be free to use their judgement to weigh up the intent.'

But they already are free to use their judgement to weigh up the intent. It's the whole point of a moderators job to do just that.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507940#Comment_123507940

I can't post a link for some reason on the device I am on, it just refreshes the page. Thee forum specific rules are pinned at the top of every forum.

Hamsterchops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507896#Comment_123507896

So then what you are saying is that I MUST refer to Isla Bryson as she, and to Lia Thomas as she, whilst also taking the Dr Upton side (in the Fife tribunal), because if I don't go along with it my posts would be seen as derogatory. I think that's what you're saying.

In other words, I must comply.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507937#Comment_123507937

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507947#Comment_123507947

Here are the rules for CA:

2: Do not post any material that you know or should know is hateful, abusive, harassing, false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, vulgar, obscene, profane, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or illegal.

3: You are free to express your views in a forceful manner provided you remain civil. Hate speech, insults, and purposely inflammatory remarks (i.e., trolling) will not be tolerated. Do not post threats or state or imply that any individual or group is deserving of harm. If we tell you to refrain from behaviour that we regard as uncivil, or that in our view detracts from a productive discussion, do so or face revocation of your posting privileges.

Are these what you're talking about? I should mention at this time, I am not discussing moderation of CA, but using this as an example given to me of rules that should already do the job.

Do not post any material that you know or should know is hateful, abusive, harassing, false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, vulgar, obscene, profane, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or illegal.

Seems simple enough. I would add in

Do not post any material that you know or should know is hateful, abusive, harassing, false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, vulgar, obscene, profane, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, derogatory towards an individual or group of people or illegal.

That's all.

I can't find the site rules, which is never great for a site, tbf.

OscarMIlde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507933#Comment_123507933

You said it was transphobic to say men cannot give birth. You didn't even couch it that to say it would be transphobic to go up to a pregnant transman and declare that with no good cause; that I could understand and agree with.

You said that statement, in and of itself, was transphobic.

That's a ridiculous statement. The entire underpinnning of sexual dimorphosm in humans (which evolved as a way to preserve viable mitochondria, the prerequisite for eukaryotic cells) is that one sex has motile gametes and the other large immobile gametes. Women as the sex that can give birth evolves from that distinction.

No one should have to pretend otherwise for fear of offending someone who would like to live as the opposite sex to which they were born.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507954#Comment_123507954

What a mad idea.

Having to play by a sites rules and standards!

Everything we do, EVERYTHING, we must comply with the rules in place there.

Play snooker? You must comply with the rules of the house.

Drive? You must comply with the rules of the road.

Bravo. This feels like a great breakthrough.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507964#Comment_123507964

Ok, I hear all of that, but...

None of what you say negates the fact it is transphobic to say men cannot give birth when in fact they can.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507944#Comment_123507944

To my knowledge it is currently not against the rules to post with the intent to be derogatory towards an individual or a minority grouping, which has led to many posts attacking or undermining minorites like trans people, travellers, Roma gypsys etc.

OscarMIlde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507974#Comment_123507974

Men cannot give birth. That is a biological function in humans that is unique to the female sex.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507982#Comment_123507982

Ah, one day you'll have a chat with a trans man who's a father and they might change your mind. I believe you're close to opening it. For the record, I believe the statement, "Fathers can give birth" to be true.

But I'll leave this part of the discussion. It has nothing to do with the topic at hand, moderation of trans issues and terms.

Hamsterchops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507971#Comment_123507971

Snooker & compliance, like female pool, where the two trans identifying "women" recently got permanently banned, why?

archfi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507987#Comment_123507987

Oh that's part of the genocide dontchaknow, innit.

OscarMIlde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507986#Comment_123507986

I'm a molecular biologist. I'm not going to believe impossible things that conflict with the entire underpinning of complex life on earth.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507963#Comment_123507963

I would say point three in the existing rules covers it all.

You could argue that rule isn't enforced in some situations, which is exactly what this thread is about.

Hamsterchops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507982#Comment_123507982

Well you and I may think that, but our belief is purely a biological belief which has been superseded by the rules of Transideology!!

Apparently.

kippy

What is a man?

Mickeroo

Thread closed.

This is just going round in circles at this stage and honestly I'm not really sure what the point is other than to post somewhere the CA charter doesn't apply so people from both sides can spout whatever bile they want at each other.

Go enjoy your bank holiday or something.