Moderation of trans issue and terms

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123501426#Comment_123501426

Yep, the thread has basically become like something out of after hours. But it would have been moderated at some point.. This appears to have gone a day out without any sign of an intervention.

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123501438#Comment_123501438

I have never tried to tell anyone what words they could not use.

You're literally calling for filters to be applied to certain phrases so they get deleted.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123501522#Comment_123501522

Do you object to Boards existing use of filters to obscure (not delete) other terms that cause offence, or only on those you want to be allowed to use without repercussion or even minimal concerns for those to whom it may cause offence?

There are an awful lot of hypocrites here who seem to think they are owed some kind of right to offend others with impunity. The funny thing (in an ironic way) is they are the very same people who'd be the first ones to complain (loudly and bitterly) if someone said something to them they found offensive.

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123501446#Comment_123501446

I think there needs to be a line somewhere beyond which certain phrases or behaviour isn't tolerated. I'm not saying where that line should be, but guidance from moderators and admins would be useful so people can know, going forward, where it lies. That's all.

Large bottle small glass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123501606#Comment_123501606

One of your main supporters in this thread has spent a week defending the right to wear a Hezbollah flag and to kill Tories as artistic freedom.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123501681#Comment_123501681

That’s different (or something)

🤯

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123499334#Comment_123499334

Thanks. Fair play

Hamsterchops

For me human biology still rules, yes call me old fashioned, but give me biology based terms anyday over terms based on feelings and an ideology that I don't believe in.

This whole thing is based on a belief system that runs counter to biology. So if a man decides at (insert age) he feels like he has always been a woman trapped in a man's body, then by the laws of gender identity, everybody MUST now address him as she or her, or fall foul of the laws of the ideology . . .

Any male pronouns are now strictly verboten and will be interpreted as "misgendering" for we must now all believe that he really is now she, and that she is female. Problem is, what if I don't go along with it, or don't believe?

What if I don't believe that Conor is now Debbie? what if I don't believe in gender identity? What if I don't don't believe in the illusion, what if I don't don't believe in preferred pronouns? I mean, must an atheist be forced to believe in God, must everybody also be made to believe in Transubstantiation? Must my kids be taught in school that they might be "born in the wrong body" and that sex is "assigned' at birth.

Hell no, I'm having none of it, for as I said at the top, biology rules 👍

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123501446#Comment_123501446

What is strange is that the absolute opposite of what you're describing is happening. Boards once had a zero tolerance attitude to transphobia, after (I believe their name was Roziess?) a trans user turned pretty aggressive after an awful onslaught of bullying.

Slowly, with the right wing culture of going after an easy minority through needless worrying, overemphasizing the amount of trans individuals that are affecting women, (like the high school soccer ban, which ended up affecting ONE athlete, yet still made headline news) transphobia has been creeping back in to social media and thus is becoming normalised, much the same way shrodingers immigrants are ("They're taking our jobs, but they're only here to scrounge off the system").

Whether you agree that transphobia is on the rise under the radar, I don't really care. It's my perception of the situation and only the owner/admin of the site can judge it for this site.

Why I take "offence on behalf of others", (I assume I would be one of those) is two fold.

1: They're not here to defend themselves because boards has allowed members to be hostile and aggressive to transpeople.

2: I care about minorities, because once one minority gets trounced, the creatures that get amused by this move on to other targets. We've seen it throughout history, it's nothing new. I have friends who are trans and non-binary and I hate that their lives are so hard and I wish people would just leave them the f*ck alone.

More and more young people are questioning their gender, the idea of gender in and of itself and I want to work towards making my corner of the world more welcoming to them. That's it.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123501920#Comment_123501920

It doesn't matter what you believe. It's just basic manners. Refer to people by the term they wish, think why you like and don't be offensive or insulting towards them, it's very simple.

I'm an atheist, I'm not forced to believe any of the stuff you posted, I'm still polite to religious people who do believe.

Hamsterchops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123501950#Comment_123501950

There you go, it doesn't matter what I believe as long as I believe that he is now she, even though I don't believe (and can see otherwise). It's called gaslighting. I must be free to see and acknowledge what see before me, just don't force me to comply with your beliefs, and all will be well 🙏

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123501920#Comment_123501920

Just makes you sound like an ignorant, rude *rsehole to be honest.

As for, "So if a man decides at (insert age) he feels like he has always been a woman trapped in a man's body..."

You don't wake up one day and say, "f*ck it, those trans women have it far too easy. I'll give it a shot myself"

No, it's usually a lifetime of pain, torment and confusion. It only because it's become more awareness of what transsexuality is, are more men and women coming out as trans in later life. (I wouldn't say it's more widely accepted)

We probably won't see this as much in the next generation as young transpeople have far more allies than the previous generation would have, and they feel more secure coming out earlier.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123501966#Comment_123501966

No, it's called being respectful towards other people. The same way I don't believe in God but am respectful to those who do.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123501936#Comment_123501936

More and more young people are questioning their gender, the idea of gender in and of itself and I want to work towards making my corner of the world more welcoming to them. That's it.

See this is exactly the wrong way around: for DECADES women have been trying to question gender, to say that just because you're female doesn't mean you have to like pink, be good at looking after children but bad at maths, and the whoel transgender ideology is saying the exact opposite: they're saying that if you like pink and hate maths, that means you ARE a woman - instead of saying that it's perfectly ok for men to like pink and be bad at parallel parking and maths.

It's forcing women into the worst kind of stereotypes, and encouraging those who don't fit those stereotypes to have drugs and surgery to fit a different set of stereotypes. It's the most regressive ideology around!

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123501977#Comment_123501977

That is absolutely untrue!

There's more to being female than liking pink, FFS 😂

You don't honestly believe that liking pink, hating maths and the inability yo parallel park are the leading causes of male to female transition? 😂😂😂

Hamsterchops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123501968#Comment_123501968

Just believe me when I say this …

I do not believe in gender identity / ideology, that's all really. I believe in human biology, science, and that's it.

Others can believe in their own religions or concepts like gender identity, and that's a good thing for them, each to their own beliefs, but must I also buy into things I don't believe in, NO of course not

For me, science & biology rule, as per the Supreme Court ruling in London last month. I agree with everything Lord Hodge said too in his assessment, which I thought to be very balanced and respectful …

El Gato De Negocios

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123501936#Comment_123501936

For anyone not old enough to remember, rozzies was a fuckin mentalist with an obvious personality disorder. To try and paint transphobia on boards as the reason for their behaviour is as disingenuous as it gets tbh but considering the lengths TRAs are willing to go to in order to try and strengthen their position, it's not all all surprising.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123501980#Comment_123501980

There's more to being female than liking pink, FFS 😂

Indeed, that's exactly my point. Being female has exactly nothing to do with liking pink - that's personality. Not sex.

You don't honestly believe that liking pink, hating maths and the inability yo parallel park are the leading causes of male to female transition? 😂😂😂

Not me that says this kind of thing though. Try the founder of Mermaids, Susie Green explaining why her child was a girl and not a homosexual boy, something her husband could not accept. The child liking what the parents felt were little girls' toys (at aged 3 or 4!) was something her husband could not accept because he did not want a gay son. But was ok to accept a trans daughter.

https://youtu.be/dci9rhN9dOY

That's not unusual: the Tavistock scandal came out when a number of counsellors went to Dr David Bell, then medical director for the overall Tavistock and Portland Clinic, because they felt that there was a significant issue with homophobia which was being ignored in favour of a transgender diagnosis, ie that families and children preferred to think their child was trans when instead they were simply homosexual.

Even the gay counsellors who wanted to be allowed to consider internalised homophobia as a possible cause for some children's gender dysphoria were being dismissed as transphobic by their (straight!) colleagues, and found themselves risking being sanctioned for their supposed transphobia.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123502092#Comment_123502092

I was around at that time, and yeah, she definitely did have mental health issues, BUT they were absolutely exacerbated by the bullying they received on boards.

Like, look at the language you're using, what, 20 years later?

"rozzies was a fuckin mentalist"

How in God's name do you think that's ok to talk about ANYONE like that, let alone someone with obvious mental health issues?

This is the slide we're talking about on boards btw.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123502001#Comment_123502001

I never said I didn't believe you, I said it

Just makes you sound like an ignorant, rude *rsehole to be honest.

And doubling down on your "belief" won't change my mind.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123502159#Comment_123502159

Surely somebody with mental health issues was totally unsuitable for the position of moderator, and that was the problem? I'm not justifying people being unpleasant, but let's face it, being a moderator does require the person to be able to put up with a certain amount of aggro - I've been a mod myself on a big site with a lot of traffic, at the time, so I do know what it's like.

And how can a moderator be "bullied" anyway? FFS they're moderators - it's like complaining about a sheepdog being bullied by the sheep (which can actually happen, I've seen it - but that's the point: such a dog can't be an effective sheepdog, and complaining about the bullying isn't the solution.)

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123502193#Comment_123502193

Who said she was a mod?

Besides boards was very different back then. Being a mod was seen as to serve the community, because it was often good fun with mod beers, pizzas etc.

And yes, mods were sometimes bullied. And the bullies were often dealt with quickly by the excellent owners/admin that were here at the time.

But that didnt stop the bullies re-regging and keeping at it. They boasted about it on other fora, FFS.

To say mods are never bullied or shouldn't be bullied really shows how you see victims. Honestly, you fool no one.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123501681#Comment_123501681

What possible relevance do you think this comment has to what is being discussed in this thread?

For the record, I couldn't have any less interest in any Boards.ie users views on the various conflicts going on around the world. I do not and have never offered any opinion on those conflicts here myself, nor do I read or engage in any discussion about them here. Even if I wanted to, I certainly wouldn't do so on this site. So I have literally no clue which poster's character you're trying to impugn with this comment. Nor do I care.

Respectfully requesting that you stick to the topic at hand. Thank you.

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123501606#Comment_123501606

Is that right? How do you know this? A few of you folks make an awful lot of assumptions about other people. I don't think I've ever reported a post on this site, except once when I thought a post was defamatory to someone else. Neither have I reported any of the posts calling us "transphobic bigots". For what it's worth, I'm not a fan of any kind of swear filters, because this situation is what they lead to. People trying to shut discussions down because they are offended by it. But, it's not my site. So, I don't get to set the rules.

And just looking at some of the language being used on this very thread. Is it okay to say "you sound like an ignorant, rude *rsehole" but not okay to say "you are an ignorant, rude *rsehole"?

Is it okay to use the word *arsehole so long as the letter 'a' is asterisked out?

Don't be a dick obviously only applies to one side of these discussions

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123502162#Comment_123502162

You talk about the decline of the posting standards across the website yet are then the first person to start insulting others on the thread that disagree with you.

Maybe apply some of your own logic to your own posts? This above comment adds absolutely nothing to the thread other than to insult the poster you replied to.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123501641#Comment_123501641

Exactly. And that line needs to be clearly drawn.

I think some Boards users still mistakenly believe that they have some kind of inherent right to say whatever they want on this site, with absolutely no regard to whom they could offend. I made my original post because I feel it's reached an unacceptable level, and is being allowed to go on unchecked.

It's been said many times by Boards.ie mods themselves, that no one has "the right to free speech" here, and this is a private site, not a democracy. By signing up, users agree to its rules, and one of those, is to be respectful to transgender people. I posted the screen shot to it upthread. While anyone can make and error and break a rule at times, or do so unknowingly, what is going on here is now going way beyond that.

Ultimately, it's the current CA mods and Admin team who need to come to a decision on what exactly are Boards.ie policies on this, and enforce them once and for all. However in my view, if they allow the current standard of posting to continue, well, it is they who are letting the transgender community down.

Now, it's a bank holiday weekend, I'm away, and my family are getting pissed off at me being online here. So happy Saturday for now.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123502245#Comment_123502245

Agreed.

But I also see no need to show respect to someone who refuses to show respect to a minority. 🤷

Maybe it could be cleared up with a mod instruction? 🤔

El Gato De Negocios

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123502159#Comment_123502159

A mentalist is a mentalist whether they are white, brown, yellow, male, female, trans, or alien.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123502267#Comment_123502267

That's a repulsive way of describing someone with mental health issues.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123501973#Comment_123501973

It's odd how you and others make these things points about respecting people who have beliefs you don't share yet the evidence portrayed in your (collective) posting suggests otherwise.