Did it ever make sense to move from an old combustion car to a new EV

System

This discussion was created from comments split from: EV Depreciation 2023.

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121514452#Comment_121514452

That's the Irish mentality though, a lot have no problem spending a fortune to save a little. The amount of diesels bought after 2008 was madness.

Isn't it the same with EV's though, people spending a years salary for an ID3 etc for the night rate electricity to save €20 a week on fuel. Now looking at €200 a week in depreciation

Dont get me wrong, if you can afford a new car, buy a new car, but buying a new car to save €20-30 a week on diesel/petrol as your motive is madness, you dont buy a new car to save money, better off shopping in Lidl/cut the takeaways etc 😉

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121514547#Comment_121514547

Never buy a new car to save money.

Only consider an EV if your buying a new car either way.

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121514559#Comment_121514559

That's not what posters here have been advising for the last few years, you'll save this much if you buy an EV etc, some even had the spreadsheets out, it's a new car for free.

They are all gone quiet now though 😂🤣

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121514610#Comment_121514610

you are a very infrequent poster if you have been here for years....

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121514610#Comment_121514610

Actually that’s incorrect.

Most posters would have stated you should never buy a new car to save money. I have never seen it tbh.

Maybe the advice over the last 3 years was to buy new because the cost was similar to second hand but in general it was never to buy new to save money.

kanuseeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121514610#Comment_121514610

That and total cost of ownership,

I feel sorry for who listened,

Leaving that aside, can VW keep going with the price drop, do they have the margin to do so?

I believe Tesla could drop another bit and still make money

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121514610#Comment_121514610

Any time anyone comes in talking about changing car because car costs X amount per week in diesel or servicing or tax or whatever, myself and others always say don't change car to save money, because you won't ,just say you want a new car and then the advice will come. Then it's a talk about EV v ICE

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121514610#Comment_121514610

Nonsense, that was always new Ev vs new Ice.

staples7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121514653#Comment_121514653

Agreed I think you maybe thinking of the cost of ownership, servicing, fuel etc.

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516191#Comment_121516191

No no

Not true at all, gaslighting now sorry

Just look through the history, the first search I did for " Total Cost Of Ownership " as Kanusemme highlighted was the buzz word

Many many posters came here and asked the same question over and over and got the same reply as grummpypants posted in this thread

It went like this usually

" I'm spending 70e a week in diesel, I could cut that to 20e in an EV with home charging, should I buy an EV"

[QUOTE]MG has a 7 year warranty

So the saving on tax, insurance, diesel, maintenance could reasonably be around 5k each year.

The above is simple enough back of the envelope figures but it would suggest that if you swap the car pretty much pays for itself over the next 7 [/QUOTE]

Total Cost of Ownership - Diesel to EV. — boards.ie - Now Ye're Talkin'

[QUOTE Grumpypants]The current used market is a bit skewed and prices are a bit higher than normal, so no guarantee of future price. Because the MG is so new there is no long term data to use to predict devaluation, but the old MG has really held its value. In the UK, cars under a year old are being offered the full purchase price to trade it in to the new one.

The new MG has been given a bump in the FMV that PCP give too. So that is generally a good sign that they expect the car to hold its value. EVs do hold a little better than petrol or diesel too. So you are better off getting into a new EV over a new petrol or diesel.

I've just put a deposit on that new MG ZS you are looking at, for the spec on it and the price nothing comes close.

It was €36.5k on the road (that is the car and all the dealer charges etc).

The next cost is the charge point. MG will give you a free charge point box (but not installed). They have installers they recommend and you can claim back €600 in a grant so that installation shouldn't cost you anything extra.

Tax is €120 for an EV. I think the Passat is 200 or 270? So a little extra saving there moving forward.

Final cost is insurance. This should drop, moving from a 12 year old car to a new one with loads of safety features like automatically braking if a pedestrian steps in front of you and MG Pilot to keep you in lane and at the same speed of the car in front on motor ways, it even reads road signs and doesn't let you speed (if that setting is turned on) should net you a lower premium. When I moved from my 2009 A4 it dropped from €700 to the minimum premium of €280. So maybe there is another few hundred of a saving but that one is a bit more individual.

So total initial outlay (cost of car, tax and insurance) is about €37k.

Then the savings start recouping that.

If the Passat does on average 25miles per gallon. And a gallon of diesel is €7.50 (4.5 litres X €1.65)

The ZS does 3.5miles per KW. So it will use 7.15kw to do 25 miles. Even at the most expensive electricity rate of 25cent a KW. You are still looking at just under €1.80 to do the same 25 miles.

If you get on a normal introduction discount rate that could drop to €1.20 or even 0.80 on night rates.

Every 25miles you drive it's almost a fiver in your pocket. Or over your 400km round trip it's €50 saved. If you do that once a week then €50 a week for a year is €2600. And that is just on your one 400km round trip. If you take in all your other day to day driving then that could start heading toward the €3500-€4000 ball park.

2010 Passat needs an annual NCT, New car won't. The passat is also in the age range where maintenance could be in the high hundreds to 1k a year.

MG has a 7 year warranty. So you just need the service.

So the saving on tax, insurance, diesel, maintenance could reasonably be around 5k each year.

The above is simple enough back of the envelope figures but it would suggest that if you swap the car pretty much pays for itself over the next 7 years.[/QUOTE]

Henry Ford III

Passat diesel will do 50+mpg

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517134#Comment_121517134

An EV is a no brainer if you do significant annual mileage and can charge at home on night rate but an MG ZS and a VW Passat aren’t really comparable vehicles. A VW ID.4 or even an ID.7 would be more comparable than the MG.

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517220#Comment_121517220

How is it a no brainer to lose €200-€300 a week in depreciation?

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517252#Comment_121517252

Will a new petrol car not also loose that same €2-300 per week in their first year?

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517258#Comment_121517258

Not if you keep your old Passat

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517293#Comment_121517293

That’s a different argument. No need to sell a car to buy a new car to save money.

Of someone’s buying a car, irrespective of ice or EV, then that’s when you do the sums.

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517300#Comment_121517300

Sure that's what I posted above, did you read the reply the poster got?

He asked a question of should I buy an EV and sell the old Passat and was told yes, free car, 50e a week fuel saving, 10e a week tax, 20e servicing etc etc

You didn't see all those threads?

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517134#Comment_121517134

Are you taking the piss?

The first reply on that thread is this "Do you have any monthly repayments on the Passat?

If not and you own it outright you would have to factor in the monthly payments on the cost of paying back the EV which will probably wipe out any fuel savings etc.

However if you are buying a new car/nearly new you’ll have repayments anyway?

Unless you are buying in cash?"

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517408#Comment_121517408

Grumpypants with the calculations a few replies down is the reply I saw most for a time

Keep your current petrol or diesel car was usually met with distain

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517434#Comment_121517434

Look, I'm sure you'll find multiple one off posters saying something stupid like that, but the vast majority here would never advise buying a new Ev or Ice to save money, and to be fair the consensus on that thread was that buying a new Ev versus keeping the Passat won't save money.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121514627#Comment_121514627

Joined the Site on 18th December. Yeah, I’m here years 😂😂

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517355#Comment_121517355

That thread recommended keeping the Passat by my reading.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517434#Comment_121517434

its all in your head, in nearly all cases keeping an old car with no monthly repayments is cheaper than buying new, be that EV or ICE, i doubt anyone argued otherwise.

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517565#Comment_121517565

From a few, but that's a recency bias, by last year word was out.

Go back to 2018-2020 threads when the VW ID range hype was high and pre war and you get lots of posters in favour of spending big to save big.

Unkel, Kcross, BK, ELM327, Soarer, read those posts

"300km per week commuting and presumably another 100-150km in the evenings and at the weekend?

So, about 400km/wk and lets assume 50 weeks/yr so about 20k km's per year. Is that about right for you?

You are well within the range of the current Leaf (50-60km per day) all year round, so you should be able to do all that driving on your home charger.

Distance: 20k km's

Electricity costs: 7c/kWh (assumes you get night rate which is free to get)

Petrol cost: €1.34/l

Focus l/100 km: 7l/100km (is that accurate?)

Leaf: 16kWh/100km (assuming your commute is not all motorway)

Mash all those together gives you fuel costs as follows:

Focus: €1876

Leaf: €224"

Worth getting a EV for this commute? — boards.ie - Now Ye're Talkin'

Is an electric an option — boards.ie - Now Ye're Talkin'

AMKC

My uncle traded in a 2009 Ford Mondeo that I am quiet sure he owned as he had it from new for a 231 Brand new MG4. Loves the MG4.

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517645#Comment_121517645

He's gonna love it long time 🤣

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517583#Comment_121517583

im not sure what you are trying to prove, posts above again are clearly illustrating a fuel cost saving?

Furze99

A factor that will become more relevant in time is the Bata Mór / Big Stick that government will increasingly wield to 'persuade' motorists to decommission their ICE vehicles and oblige them to put their money in EVs. Whether VAT, car tax or carbon & excise taxes on fuel, fully expect them to beat people over the head. What will slow this down/ hold it back is if large numbers keep their petrol/ diesel cars for the moment, as you can't pee off the electorate too much. But once a critical mass is reached, I'd expect the Bata Mór to be wielded on the obstinate motorists left!

Take the new proposed bill on reducing speed limits across the board on the grounds of road safety... the cold eye would say this is as much to do with EV strategy, as slowing speeds will make EV batteries last longer and more attractive. Devious lot are this crowd!

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517645#Comment_121517645

Doubly blessed.

He had an old car that probably didn't owe him anything and the funds to buy a new one.

However most people don't keep a new car for 14 years and are on a treadmill of trying to balance trade in values and availability of finance.

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517686#Comment_121517686

And disregarding the massive depreciation we are now seeing.

Did you see the posters totting up the fuel savings advising posters, that a 43k EV might be worth 18k after less than 2 years?