Did it ever make sense to move from an old combustion car to a new EV

graememk

Tyres are tyres.

Currently running Goodyear all season vector gen 3 I think. Handle fantastic in the snow.

Coming up on getting a change at 80k km. (Rotated at appropriate times )

All tyres have weight ratings so as long as you stay in spec for your car.

Woodie40

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517963#Comment_121517963

Re: PHEV, my partner is exactly the same as you, she is trading in her EV for a PHEV next month.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517134#Comment_121517134

I'm not sure what point you think you've proven. You selected a thread where most posters who know about and own EVs are giving sound advice about the expected cost of buying an EV, pointing out where savings are to be made, not that the EV will necessarily be cheaper than keeping the 13 year old Diesel which the OP wanted to shift.

Instead of using the OP, you made up your own question and then inserted a comment made by another poster which was in response to the OP...not your made up and irrelevant question. In the case of the OP of that thread, it is likely a new EV would be kept for 10+ years and would therefore be cheaper to own and run over that period of time than keeping an old diesel. No sane person is telling people to ditch their ICE and buy an EV. Only when the ICE is being moved on and a new, or used car is on the cards AND only if the EV is suitable, the EV will be suggested.

You keep pointing out depreciation over 2 years. This is the same for any car and it only matter if the owner sells the car after such a short period of time. Most sensible folk will keep their cars for 5 or 10 years before changing, so it doesn't apply to them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517176#Comment_121517176

No, it won't.😂

You've been too close to the fairy dust this month. 2010 Passat doesn't even reach 30MPG on average.

https://www.fuelly.com/car/volkswagen/passat/2010#:~:text=Based%20on%20data%20from%20110,0.29%20MPG%20margin%20of%20error.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517555#Comment_121517555

Long time lurker, first time poster. Kan u believe him? 🤣

Cyrus

I Kan 😁

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517293#Comment_121517293

How long is a 2010 Passat going to keep going though ?

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518634#Comment_121518634

If the monthly cost to service the loan, plus the running costs of the other (presumably newer) car are less than the cost of running the "debt free" car, then it does make sense to move from one car to the other. This is especially true if you have an expensive service on the way.

tom1ie

Yeah but in the scenario where you are in a perfectly working debt free ICE, it makes no financial sense to purchase a newer car by taking on debt for cheaper running costs.

The cost to service the debt has to be factored in.

Anyway I think that’s been pointed out on this thread previously so I won’t upset anyone by going on about it.

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518438#Comment_121518438

My Audi A4 diesel estate and 5 series petrol needed reinforced tyres, same as my Tesla M3. Nothing special about them, the media and marketing are really doing a job on people.

beggars_bush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517176#Comment_121517176

Only on longer trips

kanuseeme

LoL imitation is the highest form of flattery, ascribing someone else's posts as mine is strange, I am the defender of phevs and hybrids, I am not against EVs, just some of the fantasy stuff, I feel sorry for who purchased recently, I actually received abuse when I mentioned about depreciation on EVs 2 months ago in the bargain thread, in response to another well known who claimed the opposite.

I don't think EV sales in the last couple of years were going to be long term keepers as mostly early adopters want to move on to the next car with different chemistry or some other faff, it might be the case now with the new price drops, that or realise the loss,

going forward how are sales going to be, any purchase I make I do put a lot of thought into resale, 25 years ago I expected to loose 2000 pounds a year, now I buy 2nd hand and sell for profit/no loss or minimal loss, I am sure others are like me who can accept some loss, but not whats happening now.

You used US units and any engine , its a little better when you go imperial and select diesel.

Based on data from 21 vehicles, 638 fuel-ups and 374,601 miles of driving, the 2010 Volkswagen Passat gets a combined Avg UK MPG of 44.03 with a 0.71 UK MPG margin of error.

https://www.fuelly.com/car/volkswagen/passat/2010?engineconfig_id=501&bodytype_id=&submodel_id=

Entirely possible to get 50 mpg.

I lurked a long time also, only started to post when I got my outlander PHEV.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121519500#Comment_121519500

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520217#Comment_121520217

It looked a bit lower than expected alright. Though most people driving a 13 year old passat won't be getting anywhere near 50mpg for 2 reasons. Ageing cars lose efficiency and most will be doing short journeys not suited to diesel engines, so the operating temp is rarely reached and fuel burning is incomplete, leading to soot building up, loss of power, efficiency and the dreaded dpf issues.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520776#Comment_121520776

I’m driving a 2011 Vauxhall insignia SRI where I regularly get 6L/100km which works out at 47.08 MPG Doing mostly 100kms+ journeys, car serviced when needed tyres changed when needed etc.

It would be very hard for me to justify moving to a different engine type to save a few bob.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521062#Comment_121521062

i presume changing to any car, ice or EV would be hard to justify? financially at least?

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521062#Comment_121521062

You wouldn't save a few bob though. A 2011 insignia is at residual value really and isn't going to depreciate much more. If you were to change to an EV you'd have to move significantly up in years and depreciation costs then enter the chat.

That said, an insignia of that vintage is going to be looking for parts very soon if not already.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521414#Comment_121521414

Sorry I meant I wouldn’t save a few Bob moving to the EV id be better off sticking with ICE- obviously dependent on it not shiting itself anytime soon!

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521062#Comment_121521062

Similar position, have the same diesel car for the last 12 years, doesn't own me a thing and I service/fix most small issues with it myself and know a good mechanic for the big jobs.

I will be buying an EV eventually, not for financial reasons or environment, just because I really like how they drive, so smooth and effortless, but what has stopped me is the price, warranty and tech.

I fully believe this 60kWh standard for almost €40,000 like the VW ID3 and its 8 year/160k km battery warranty and real world 220km motorway range @ 120km/h in Irish winter is gonna be very dated in a few years, they will look like an older Nissan Leaf does now and like the old Nissan Leaf today's EV's will depreciate like crazy. I do think too that any EV not using fireproof battery chemistry like the Chinese blade battery will be unwanted eventually, wouldn't be surprised to see incentives to get them off the road to avoid the risk of a fire with them, even if its not a massive risk, but a risk nonetheless

Anyway with China and its battery/car companies, I am expecting 80+kWh, with 15 year/500k km battery warranties, 300km+ real world motorway range to be available for €25,000 or so by the end of the decade in an ID3 size car. Basically they will be making long term EV's, the ones now are a short term solution rushed to the market to avoid EU fines and are in effect just compliance cars. The non compliance cars will be insanely good

I'll wait for them

fricatus

Just to throw in my own experience here, to answer the question in the title...

Bought classic Hyundai Ioniq in 2018, going from a 2005 2.2l diesel Honda Accord and commuting over 100 km per day.

Here are the actual figures:

Hyundai Ioniq:

Loan: €5,844

Electricity: €400

Tax: €120

Servicing: €150

TOTAL: €6,514

Honda Accord:

Loan: €0

Diesel: €2,500

Tax: €994

Servicing: €600

NCT: €50

TOTAL: €4,144

So you might wonder if I was mad taking on an extra €2,500 in yearly spending. However take into account that I had a clutch problem with the Accord, and I was looking at about €2k to replace, so that already swung it for me. Repair costs had begun to creep up too, and were at least €1,000 a year in the last two or three years.

I was looking at throwing good money after bad, and with a new car under warranty, repair costs weren't going to be anything to worry about, so I knew how much I was paying. Plus, it was just a newer car with way more safety tech. It was also much nicer to drive, even though the interior of the Accord was more premium.

The Ioniq turned out to be the right decision. It's been utterly reliable, apart from the charge port actuator and two door handles having to be replaced under warranty (I got a newer Ioniq as a courtesy car while my own was getting repaired). We still have it, because when I bought my Model 3, my wife wanted to take the Ioniq off me instead of holding onto her own Toyota. It's still going strong (of course it is - it's a six-year-old car!) but what's better again is that it's paid for and costs SFA to run.

I haven't mentioned insurance or tyres because the costs of those didn't change. I'm very sceptical of articles in the press saying that people are paying double for tyres or insurance with an EV, because it hasn't been my experience. Maybe that's because we've gone from one normal-sized saloon/hatchback to another each time. Maybe if you're going from a Corolla to a massive SUV then tyres and insurance are going to go up, but that's because you bought an SUV, not because you bought an EV.

(Neither car has gone on fire either)

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521593#Comment_121521593

Good example and it does work for you, you made the correct decision on those numbers as your using the cars fully capabilities everyday to the max with that over 100km commute, but its a second car in your house, you have another car for the long journeys?

In a 1 car household, an EV that can't go more than 150km at motorway speed probably wouldn't work lets be honest.

I don't get your figures though did the Ioniq 2018 only cost €5,844 to buy?

SteelyDanJalapeno

You can cherry pick numbers and examples to back up your own argument/agenda.

My ID3 has probably depreciated about 35% or less over our 2.5 years of ownership.

In that period I've saved absolutely minimum 6k in fuel, I'm going on today's prices and comparing to the most fuel efficient combustibles out there.

I'll keep my car for 10 years, at that stage I'll have roughly cancelled out the price of the car in fuel savings so the net cost ignoring maintenance and tyres will be zero.

Equivalent ice will be 60k (car price plus fuel).

Does it still not make sense?

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521581#Comment_121521581

Is it a skoda vrs?

StudentDad

I've been driving a few years now and in that time I've never been tempted to buy a new car, full stop. Nevermind, an ev. Cars are a ridiculous waste of money. I'll spend those monies on living, thanks.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521693#Comment_121521693

Nothing wrong with that attitude either. But you’re in a car motoring forum so most would be “into” cars in the same way you’re into “living” 😁

StudentDad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521726#Comment_121521726

I'd have no problem buying a new car if the govt. dumped vrt and got rid of the massive tax bill that comes bundled with buying a new car and of course solving the depreciation problem :)

waterwelly

One thing to consider with older cars is downtime, breakdowns and reliability.

On older vehicles I can find I've to drop it to the garage the night before, then get somebody to follow me over to get me home. Then the next day you've to arrange a lift or make some arrangement.

Then there's times they need a part, so it's back for a second visit.

The NCT can be the same, multiple trips and visits flaffing about with it.

Newer cars generally avoid most of this.

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521663#Comment_121521663

As long as nothing goes wrong with it

You gonna try and get an extended warranty or risk it?

What mileage will be on it after 10 years?

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521671#Comment_121521671

No it's alarmingly average, Auris d4d

SteelyDanJalapeno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521978#Comment_121521978

250k - 300k

Something can go wrong with all cars EV or not, I removed that from the calcs

The battery warranty on the ID is 7 years or 160k, will consider extending it closer to that time.

Gumbo

For those driving 1996 VW red i’s worried about being forced into an EV.

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121522079#Comment_121522079

I think the warranty is 8 years or 160K Kms and it can’t be extended to my knowledge.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521062#Comment_121521062

Regularly achieving 6L/100km on long journeys in many modern diesel cars is what I would expect, as that is what the engine is designed for....long journeys, where the the operating temp is achieved and maintained for most of the journey. It's the shorter journeys that kill the efficiency. The average for that car is 7L/100km. Are you commuting 100km+ per day? I know plenty of my colleagues are doing that mileage daily and then some.

@6L/100km with Diesel costing €1.65/L, that's €9.90/100km. Rounding to a tenner, it's €50 per week (not bad at all), or €2,500 per year.

The thing is, anecdotally speaking...the colleagues doing around 100km return commute per day are telling me they spend a lot more than €50 per week on fuel. The oldest diesel is a 2016 Octavia which are supposed to be achieving the same as your insignia.