Is an electric an option

freddie1970

Hi ..im presently doing a 140km round trip to work everyday and my partner 160km we are both spending 130 a week on diesel over 500 a month ..im just wondering would electric car be viable in our case.and would they represent much of a saving ..with the distance we travel we would have to insure that they could do over 160 with out charging

bmwguy

Have a look at Hyundai ioniq and see what you think. Plenty of threads on them here and a few owners. It might do what you are looking for, but it's tight.

tedpan

Hmmm, you're right on the limit with 160km. I have a 2015 leaf and it does a 110km round trip, would maybe have another 10km range. The 2016/17 updated leaf may do a 160km round trip.

I'm guessing you'll be waiting until Q4.2017/Q1.2018 when many manufacturers will be releasing cars with much further range(300-400km)

Also note that the car companies will advertise a much higher range. I'd remove 20-30% of their estimate to give a more accurate travelling distance.

freddie1970

Am i right in thinking the leaf goes a little further than the ioniq ..if i could charge at work it would work id say

mel.b

What are the roads like - motorway or regional roads? I got 185km from my 30kwh leaf the other day all on regional roads but on motorways you'll struggle (in a leaf). Any chance you can get chargers installed at your work? Otheriwse look at the Ioniq which has more range than the leaf, wait for for new leaf to come out (likely early 2018) or there is the Zoe if you want a small car.

mel.b

freddie1970 wrote: »

Am i right in thinking the leaf goes a little further than the ioniq ..if i could charge at work it would work id say

Other way around, although new leaf coming that should go further.

peposhi

freddie1970 wrote: »

Am i right in thinking the leaf goes a little further than the ioniq ..if i could charge at work it would work id say

The new 40kw Leaf that's coming in September would be with a longer range than the current Ioniq. The current 30kw Leaf is way below compared to a 30kw Ioniq.

If you could charge at work any 24kw Leaf from 141 onwards (+ some 132) would work perfect for you.
Any 30kw Leaf from 161 onwards (+ some 152) would work better.

Ioniq or 40kw Zoe is your best option currently even without work charging facility.

Depending on the budget available - options are there and they suit your commute to a certain (good) extent.

ELM327

Ioniq is probably your best option, unless you want a small car in which case the ZE40 Zoe is a great choice too.

30kWh leaf could also be a choice but (from reports online) you'd be at the edge of the range every day at 160km.

reboot

You may find the range of the Zoe falls by as much as 20% in winter, although it will charge in half the time it takes for a Leaf, at 22 kva street CPs.

ELM327

reboot wrote: »

You may find the range of the Zoe falls by as much as 20% in winter, although it will charge in half the time it takes for a Leaf, at 22 kva street CPs.

Depending on the leaf and Zoe.
22kWh Zoe can charge at 22kW from a SCP, leaf can charge at either 3.3 or 6.6kW. So it's more like a third or a fifth of the time!

Soarer

It'll all depend on the roads you're traveling on. If it's regional roads, you should be able to do it handy enough in both the 30 kWh Leaf and the Ioniq. If it's motorway, the Ioniq is probably your only option until the new Leaf comes out.

That said, even if you only had an extension lead and a granny cable, you could charge it for a few hours in work to get you home.

Whatever you do, don't buy a new current model Leaf in the next few months. With the new one being released, there'll be discounts on the current one as well as the option of the newer one. Plus Nissan should still be giving €4k scrappage.
You'll be waiting a couple of months for an Ioniq if you go that route, what with Hyundai's supply issues.

KCross

Soarer wrote: »

Whatever you do, don't buy a new current model Leaf in the next few months. With the new one being released, there'll be discounts on the current one as well as the option of the newer one. Plus Nissan should still be giving €4k scrappage.

I doubt any Irish dealers are holding stock of new Leaf's and it appears (from the UK forums) that the current Leaf is already short on stock (only certain models/specs available) so there might be little or no deals on the current Leaf when the new one comes out.

The €4k scrappage isn't a dead cert either. Their current €4k scrappage deal , for instance, doesn't apply to the new Micra (according to their website its only €1500) so if the new Leaf is popular they won't have an incentive to give you €4k off, particularly when Ioniq is short on supply leaving the Leaf with the EV market more or less to itself.

I'd still agree with you though, don't buy a new one now with the new Leaf about to be revealed.

oppenheimer1

freddie1970 wrote: »

Hi ..im presently doing a 140km round trip to work everyday and my partner 160km we are both spending 130 a week on diesel over 500 a month ..im just wondering would electric car be viable in our case.and would they represent much of a saving ..with the distance we travel we would have to insure that they could do over 160 with out charging

You'll need work charging with the current models and if you have that a second hand leaf is a good option. Otherwise I'd recommend waiting as it will be too stressful to be driving to the edge of range daily.

I don't know what you are driving, but if you're trading up from old diesel cars to new electric, what you're not paying in fuel you'll pay in depreciation.

KCross

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I don't know what you are driving, but if you're trading up from old diesel cars to new electric, what you're not paying in fuel you'll pay in depreciation.

Its not as simple as that though, is it. You are giving the impression that depreciation on EV is significantly higher than ICE, when its not. It depends on how long he plans to keep the car. Depreciation is a fact of life for any car (ICE or EV).

Put another way, if he decides to stick with ICE and buy a new one of those he is still going to be hit with depreciation.

His commute is significant and the fuel and maintenance savings are also significant. If he keeps the EV for any reasonable length of time he will be quids in.

I agree though that work charging would make his choices much better and the whole experience would be stress free. I'd start with getting an answer to that and then proceed from there.

oppenheimer1

KCross wrote: »

Its not as simple as that though, is it. You are giving the impression that depreciation on EV is significantly higher than ICE, when its not. It depends on how long he plans to keep the car. Depreciation is a fact of life for any car (ICE or EV).

Put another way, if he decides to stick with ICE and buy a new one of those he is still going to be hit with depreciation.

His commute is significant and the fuel and maintenance savings are also significant. If he keeps the EV for any reasonable length of time he will be quids in.

I agree though that work charging would make his choices much better and the whole experience would be stress free. I'd start with getting an answer to that and then proceed from there.

If you actually read what I wrote I said from old diesel to new electric. If it was suggested he should buy a new diesel over an old one for better fuel economy I'd be saying the exact same.

For the vast majority of drivers, buying new or nearly new will rarely save them money. People buy new for lots of legitimate reasons, and I have no problem with that, but you don't buy new to save money.

The OPs objective here is saving money, and the best car to meet that brief for near immediate savings is a second hand leaf. For that to work, work charging would be essential.

Soarer

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

For that to work, work charging would be essential.

No it wouldn't. It'll depend on the journey involved.

mel.b posted above that she got 185km from her 30kWh on regional roads. An actual EV owner giving real world experience. Your opinions and guesswork only confuse matters.

oppenheimer1

Soarer wrote: »

No it wouldn't. It'll depend on the journey involved.

mel.b posted above that she got 185km from her 30kWh on regional roads. An actual EV owner giving real world experience. Your opinions and guesswork only confuse matters.

So one drive, not taking into account the weather or time of day is the basis of giving advice to someone who might be driving this for commuting?

Well forgive me for being a conservative realist. It's not controversial so say setting out on a 160km journey in a leaf is a bit of a gamble. Don't oversell the car.

macnab

Electric vehicles have better range in summer than in winter, partially due to batteries not liking cold and partially due to cabin heating.
My 30kw Leaf will just about do 160km summer driving on motorways at 120kmph, it will just about do 190km on B roads at 80 to 100kmph.
In winter the motorway range can drop to 135km depending on how hilly the terrain and how aggressive i drive.
If you drive behind other traffic and resist overtaking my range can increase by as much as 40km on a full charge.
As for costs, 160km will cost you about €120 a month if you drive fast and pay 20c per kwh for electricity, or about €95 if you take it handy.
If you use night rate electricity you will halve both those figures.
And if you can get a work charger installed you could in thoery reduce your fuel bill to zero, although as 160km is a bit tight for a 30kw leaf you would probably top up the battery at home which could cost you €10 or €20 a month.

bk

freddie1970 wrote: »

Hi ..im presently doing a 140km round trip to work everyday and my partner 160km we are both spending 130 a week on diesel over 500 a month ..im just wondering would electric car be viable in our case.and would they represent much of a saving ..with the distance we travel we would have to insure that they could do over 160 with out charging

freddie1970, you sound like an ideal candidate for an EV.

The Hyundai Ioniq should be able to do your 140km commute no bother and you will save a fortune on fuel.

Maybe leave your partner on the Diesel for now and then look at all the new options coming next year for your partner. The Ioniq would also be able to handle 160km, but depending on the roads and time of year might be cutting it close and require a quick top-up. The Leaf 2 coming next year and upgraded Ioniq, Kona, etc. should be able to handle your partners commute easily enough come next year.

BTW I'm basing this all on the assumption that you have two separate cars and you are looking to replace both.

KCross

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

If you actually read what I wrote I said from old diesel to new electric. If it was suggested he should buy a new diesel over an old one for better fuel economy I'd be saying the exact same.

For the vast majority of drivers, buying new or nearly new will rarely save them money. People buy new for lots of legitimate reasons, and I have no problem with that, but you don't buy new to save money.

The OPs objective here is saving money, and the best car to meet that brief for near immediate savings is a second hand leaf. For that to work, work charging would be essential.

I read and understood what you wrote alright. I'm not taking a pop at you just clarifying that your post gave the impression that depreciation on EV was somehow different.

I'm in agreement with you, for once!

Soarer

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

So one drive, not taking into account the weather or time of day is the basis of giving advice to someone who might be driving this for commuting?

Well forgive me for being a conservative realist. It's not controversial so say setting out on a 160km journey in a leaf is a bit of a gamble. Don't oversell the car.

You said work charging is essential. I said it isn't, and gave an example.

Don't start your usual ****e and derail the thread again.

ei9go

The short answer to the initial question is that the 41 kWh Zoe can do either commute, summer or winter.

Anything else as you can see from the thread has an if but or maybe.

However, you need to make sure you get the 7 kWh charger with the Zoe or there are not enough "night rate" hours to charge to 100%

Shefwedfan

I have eGolf and I get a minimum of 140km per day. Normally 150km and I could get more if I didn't drive like a looney.

The new eGolf will go even further. It is more expensive than the other electric cars available but it is a beautiful car to drive. I have to be careful what I say here but it is a class above the other electric cars available.....

As a lot of people on here have said it does depend on your driving

At the moment the depreciation does not seem as high as other cars.

I paid similar money for mine compared to diesel car.

They are a rare beast, at current count I think there is 4 in Ireland including mine

thierry14

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I have eGolf and I get a minimum of 140km per day. Normally 150km and I could get more if I didn't drive like a looney.

The new eGolf will go even further. It is more expensive than the other electric cars available but it is a beautiful car to drive. I have to be careful what I say here but it is a class above the other electric cars available.....

As a lot of people on here have said it does depend on your driving

At the moment the depreciation does not seem as high as other cars.

I paid similar money for mine compared to diesel car.

They are a rare beast, at current count I think there is 4 in Ireland including mine

What's the battery in the new e Golf? 44kwh?

They seem cool and all but you don't get a lot for your money, drive train is weak ass ( 110bhp or so ? ) which annoys me, Golf 2.0tdi's are now making near 190bhp and they release an electric with barely over 100bhp, when Tesla have yokes that can eat Lambo's

I don't know

It's a jack of all trades, master of none for me.

Just thrown together by VW

i3 is way faster, better to drive

Ioniq far more efficient, just as slow, but a lot cheaper and forward thinking imo, I like them.

Leaf is old hat now, but even the new one has 150bhp and 40kwh battery for 25k

Don't see what VW is doing better?

Rare for a reason imo

thierry14

bk wrote: »

freddie1970, you sound like an ideal candidate for an EV.

The Hyundai Ioniq should be able to do your 140km commute no bother and you will save a fortune on fuel.

Maybe leave your partner on the Diesel for now and then look at all the new options coming next year for your partner. The Ioniq would also be able to handle 160km, but depending on the roads and time of year might be cutting it close and require a quick top-up. The Leaf 2 coming next year and upgraded Ioniq, Kona, etc. should be able to handle your partners commute easily enough come next year.

BTW I'm basing this all on the assumption that you have two separate cars and you are looking to replace both.

Agree

OP has to go electric

Save a fortune, car will pay for itself and perfect candidate for 2018's 40 -50 kwh ev's which do those journey's easy.

la ultima guagua

Shefwedfan wrote: »

......if I didn't drive like a looney......:p

O/T but genuine question

Are there any other BEV drivers here that dont drive in the fashion ?

( Sometimes it seems that MadLad, Unkel & DB@Y do it all the time )

Soarer

la ultima guagua wrote: »

O/T but genuine question

Are there any other BEV drivers here that dont drive in the fashion ?

( Sometimes it seems that MadLad, Unkel & DB@Y do it all the time )

Me.

I like to get up to speed relatively quickly, but from then, I like to try keep the power dot as close to neutral as possible.

That's probably because my battery is only at 75% capacity, and my GoM is next to useless. Once I get a cheap android device, I'll LeafSpy it to the car, and I can keep an eye on actual percentage.

ELM327

Soarer wrote: »

Me.

I like to get up to speed relatively quickly, but from then, I like to try keep the power dot as close to neutral as possible.

That's probably because my battery is only at 75% capacity, and my GoM is next to useless. Once I get a cheap android device, I'll LeafSpy it to the car, and I can keep an eye on actual percentage.

be wary though, that the battery will go to 0 before leafspy says.
I generally find that I hit "0%" on the fast charger display when the leafspy SOC is showing 5-7% or more.
The car does not allow you to access the full charge.

Shefwedfan

thierry14 wrote: »

What's the battery in the new e Golf? 44kwh?

They seem cool and all but you don't get a lot for your money, drive train is weak ass ( 110bhp or so ? ) which annoys me, Golf 2.0tdi's are now making near 190bhp and they release an electric with barely over 100bhp, when Tesla have yokes that can eat Lambo's

I don't know

It's a jack of all trades, master of none for me.

Just thrown together by VW

i3 is way faster, better to drive

Ioniq far more efficient, just as slow, but a lot cheaper and forward thinking imo, I like them.

Leaf is old hat now, but even the new one has 150bhp and 40kwh battery for 25k

Don't see what VW is doing better?

Rare for a reason imo

The eGolf comes with 35.8kWh battery.

Have you driven one? no idea on the i3 but it is miles better than both the Leaf and the Ioniq to drive

I had a 2ltr TDi Golf, not sure what Bhp but it was fast. The eGolf is nipper, handles better and far nicer to drive. The additional extra included is a bonus as well.

Drive one and you will see what they are doing better.

I mentioned rare but I should have said rare in Ireland. They are flying out the doors in every other country. The waiting list is huge for them but similar here to a new Tdi. I checked

P.S A Tesla is 90k car, not sure how you can compare?

unkel

Nonsense. Ioniq can easily do 160km even if most of the commute is at motorway speeds, even in winter. OP should take one for a test drive, do his commute and report back here

People who do a daily 160km commute will save a fortune in an EV. His weekly 130 in diesel will go down to 20 in electricity

oppenheimer1

unkel wrote: »

Nonsense. Ioniq can easily do 160km even if most of the commute is at motorway speeds, even in winter. OP should take one for a test drive, do his commute and report back here

People who do a daily 160km commute will save a fortune in an EV. His weekly 130 in diesel will go down to 20 in electricity

Sure it could go to zero if you abuse the public charging network. 160km is still a little tight on the range even for the Ioniq, with not much of a comfort buffer.

The OP is clearly cost conscious, recommending a brand new car is hardly a way to save money. He spends 3K in diesel per year yet you're recommending a car that will depreciate by €15k over three years?!

Unless the OP has work charging or an appetite for depreciation there is little to be gained yet in moving to EV. All cost savings will be gobbled up by depreciation. The most cost effective thing to do would be to hold onto the current car unless it's failing. Maybe in 2 years look at a used Ioniq and if he's comfortable commuting essentially with the fuel light on for 2/3 of the time.