Worth getting a EV for this commute?

newboard

Hey all,
I'm sure this has been asked many times but just wanted to seek advice in relation to my own personal circumstances.

I'm soon to have a longer commute (around 250km - 300km a week total, rather than currently being able to cycle to/from work) and am wondering is it more economical to get a EV for this.

I currently drive a 01 1.4L Focus that probably won't last much longer, at least not with a bit of work done on it.

There would be off-street parking at home, and there's a charging station around 10-15 minutes walk from my place of work (Harold's Cross, in case anyone's familiar with the particular charging station and its level of demand).

I don't want an EV just for the sake of it (even though I think they're great!),I'd like something that will require minimal maintenance and running costs but my main goal here is to maximise savings over the next 3-4 years.

Am I better off sticking with cheap petrol cars, or should I look at getting a loan for a EV (<€10k)

Thank you

waynegalway

newboard wrote: »

Hey all,
I'm sure this has been asked many times but just wanted to seek advice in relation to my own personal circumstances.

I'm soon to have a longer commute (around 250km - 300km a week total, rather than currently being able to cycle to/from work) and am wondering is it more economical to get a EV for this.

I currently drive a 01 1.4L Focus that probably won't last much longer, at least not with a bit of work done on it.

There would be off-street parking at home, and there's a charging station around 10-15 minutes walk from my place of work (Harold's Cross, in case anyone's familiar with the particular charging station and its level of demand).

I don't want an EV just for the sake of it (even though I think they're great!),I'd like something that will require minimal maintenance and running costs but my main goal here is to maximise savings over the next 3-4 years.

Am I better off sticking with cheap petrol cars, or should I look at getting a loan for a EV (<€10k)

Thank you

Rather than a weekly total, what would be your daily commute, and what would be the longest single trip you’d have to do?

KCross

300km per week commuting and presumably another 100-150km in the evenings and at the weekend?

So, about 400km/wk and lets assume 50 weeks/yr so about 20k km's per year. Is that about right for you?

You are well within the range of the current Leaf (50-60km per day) all year round, so you should be able to do all that driving on your home charger.


Distance: 20k km's
Electricity costs: 7c/kWh (assumes you get night rate which is free to get)
Petrol cost: €1.34/l
Focus l/100 km: 7l/100km (is that accurate?)
Leaf: 16kWh/100km (assuming your commute is not all motorway)


Mash all those together gives you fuel costs as follows:

Focus: €1876
Leaf: €224

newboard

KCross wrote: »

300km per week commuting and presumably another 100-150km at the weekend?

So, about 400km/wk and lets assume 50 weeks/yr so about 20k km's per year. Is that about right for you?

I included a weekend estimate in the mileage. Weekdays would be around 50km roundtrip and I wouldn't do a whole lot on the weekends, so I think 300km/week would be accurate.

You are well within the range of the current Leaf (50-60km per day) all year round, so you should be able to do all that driving on your home charger.

Hmm, didn't realise that it'd only get me 50-60km. Is that being very safe? I wouldn't want to have to charge during the day just for the sake of the last few kms.

Distance: 20k km's
Electricity costs: 7c/kWh (assumes you get night rate which is free to get)
Petrol cost: €1.34/l
Focus l/100 km: 7l/100km (is that accurate?)
Leaf: 16kWh/100km (assuming your commute is not all motorway)


Mash all those together gives you fuel costs as follows:

Focus: €1876
Leaf: €224

Thanks - I'm not sure what mileage I get out of the Focus tbh but it'd likely be on the lower end of its potential efficiency given that the car would need some maintenance work done to it currently.

By your numbers and the 300km/week fuel would be around the €1500 mark per year.

So the other factors that have to be considered are;

Saleability of the car - i.e the car would would be an asset that could be sold on at a later point (but the resale value may be pretty low in 3-4 years?).
Motor tax - €120/year (?) versus €400/year for Focus
Maintenance - what's the average spend on maintenance per year for a Leaf?

Thank you

waynegalway

newboard wrote: »

Hmm, didn't realise that it'd only get me 50-60km. Is that being very safe? I wouldn't want to have to charge during the day just for the sake of the last few kms.

Saleability of the car - i.e the car would would be an asset that could be sold on at a later point (but the resale value may be pretty low in 3-4 years?).
Motor tax - €120/year (?) versus €400/year for Focus
Maintenance - what's the average spend on maintenance per year for a Leaf?

A 24kWh LEAF (the smallest battery version you can get) is good for anywhere between 100-130km from a full charge. I think the 50-60km mentioned was a calculation of your daily commute, not an indication of the range of the car.

If your round trip is 50-60km per day and you’re thinking of putting in a charge point at home, then an EV would be an excellent choice for you (as long as you’re aware that trips longer than 100km will take a bit of planning).

On resale: you could pick up a LEAF for anywhere between 10-14k for a decent 2nd hand one. Let’s say 12k for argument sake. If you’re saving around 2k per year between fuel and tax, keeping it for 4/5years will almost have paid for itself. The battery pack will always be worth something, so even a scrap LEAF will be worth more than a scrap petrol/diesel car, all things being equal. Not being funny, but what’s your current car worth? I’ve seen breakers yards getting 2-3k just for the battery from scrap LEAFs.

Maintenance is usually cheaper than a normal car, as there are fewer serviceable parts (no oil change/filter, no air filter, no antifreeze, no gearbox/clutch. A service is usually in the €120 range, done once a year to tick a box on the service record, which is needed to keep the warranty in place. The service involves a visual inspection, change of pollen filter, battery health check and that’s about it. Like any car, tires will need replacing, as will brake fluid and pads/discs. Because the car uses regenerative braking to slow the car down, wear and tear on brake discs/pads is lower than on a normal car. For example, I had my LEAF inspected by Nissan before I bought it, and after 53,000km, it still has 80% of original brake pads in place.

KCross

newboard wrote: »

Hmm, didn't realise that it'd only get me 50-60km. Is that being very safe? I wouldn't want to have to charge during the day just for the sake of the last few kms.

Sorry, I should have been clearer. I was referring to your commute not the range of the car. You will get 100-120km from the 24kWh Leaf unless your commute is motorway. You are only using half that range so it will be perfect for you all year round, bearing in mind that range is reduced in cold or wet weather so you need that spare capacity.

newboard wrote: »

By your numbers and the 300km/week fuel would be around the €1500 mark per year.

Based on 300km/week and 15k/yr the updated figures would be:
Focus: €1407
Leaf: €168

newboard wrote: »

So the other factors that have to be considered are;

Saleability of the car - i.e the car would would be an asset that could be sold on at a later point (but the resale value may be pretty low in 3-4 years?).

As is for every car. EV's are not depreciating like they used to. The EV market is small right now and it is only going to grow so I don't think you have anything to worry about but you have to satisfy yourself on that one.

Just check the secondhand prices and you'll see for yourself.

newboard wrote: »

Motor tax - €120/year (?) versus €400/year for Focus

Yes, €120 motor tax on EV.
There is a distinct possibility that M50 tolls will be free for EV at some stage this year so if thats a toll you use then keep an eye out for the Minister's announcement on that.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105701437&postcount=19

newboard wrote: »

Maintenance - what's the average spend on maintenance per year for a Leaf?

Depends.
If the car is out of warranty then there is no point in servicing it at all.
If it is in warranty you should service it once a year with main dealer to keep the warranty current. That will cost ~€120 depending on the dealer. Its really only an inspection and change the cabin filter. No servicing as such.

Outside of main dealer service the maintenance is just tyres the same as your focus.

zilog_jones

KCross wrote: »

If the car is out of warranty then there is no point in servicing it at all.

I wouldn't say it's completely maintenance free. It's still got hydraulic brakes, suspension and and liquid cooling like any other car. Though most of that won't require attention every year (annual inspection is probably still a good idea).

KCross

zilog_jones wrote: »

I wouldn't say it's completely maintenance free. It's still got hydraulic brakes, suspension and and liquid cooling like any other car. Though most of that won't require attention every year (annual inspection is probably still a good idea).

Sure, it isn't maintenance free (I don't think I said it was) but the question was, what is the annual maintenance cost. I was trying to convey the in and out of warranty scenarios.

The items you mentioned, as you said, are not annual service items and if the car is out of warranty you don't have the annual service costs that would be required with a traditional ICE (oil and filters).

If you still want to send the car in for an annual inspection so be it, but I wouldn't be sending it to a main dealer for that. Any local mechanic can check your brakes, suspension and A\C and should cost minimal (€50?) for a local mechanic to inspect them. Obviously if work is required it will cost whatever it costs, the same as they would in an ICE but you could go years before any brakes, suspension or A\C maintenance is required. The main maintenance item is tyres and wipers.

newboard

Thanks everyone for the replies. If I'm able to spend the 12k on a new car at any stage I think it'd be an EV.

Unfortunately the initial investment will probably be too much for the foreseeable.

I know that hybrids also offer good savings on fuel, but are they a pointless go between petrol and EV?

waynegalway

newboard wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the replies. If I'm able to spend the 12k on a new car at any stage I think it'd be an EV.

Unfortunately the initial investment will probably be too much for the foreseeable.

I know that hybrids also offer good savings on fuel, but are they a pointless go between petrol and EV?

You don’t have to spend €12k on one if you don’t want to, there are options if you’re happy to go back a few years.

On the hybrid question: you’ll get lots of different opinions on this, and mine is that hybrid is a waste of money. But it all depends on circumstance. For me, the EV is a second car, and my wife’s car is petrol, so we’re sorted for trips of any length. If your only car is going to be EV or hybrid, and you know that you’ll regularly have to go over 100km, then a hybrid might make more sense.

However, a smaller engined petrol car might also make sense. My wife’s Octavia is a 1 litre petrol, it drives really well, and can easily do 50mpg. A hybrid (say a Prius) is effectively a larger engined petrol car for the majority of the time, with a battery to supplement it at lower speeds.

Check the mpg you’d get from a hybrid and check the mpg you’d get from a smaller engined petrol car, and then see if the difference is enough to justify the purchase price (I’m assuming here that the hybrid is likely to be more expensive to purchase).

zilog_jones

waynegalway wrote: »

However, a smaller engined petrol car might also make sense. My wife’s Octavia is a 1 litre petrol, it drives really well, and can easily do 50mpg. A hybrid (say a Prius) is effectively a larger engined petrol car for the majority of the time, with a battery to supplement it at lower speeds.

Comparing engines by displacement is not very useful these days, as there so many other variables to consider. The Octavia 1.0 TSI is a turbocharged 3-cylinder engine delivering about 115 bhp, whereas a 3rd Gen ('09-'15) Prius has a 1.8 4-cylinder engine that is actually less powerful (about 100 bhp) - but it is a very efficient Atkinson cycle engine, which on its own would be pretty gutless, but combined with electric motors works pretty well (combined output claimed at about 134 bhp). Even though it may weigh a bit more than the Octavia (similar size car), it has better aerodynamics and would on average return better fuel economy (about 56 vs. 46 MPG based on Spritmonitor users).

But at the OP's budget, these newer small turbo petrols aren't an option (Octavia 1.0 TSI only came out in 2015, for example). An early 3rd gen Prius or Auris Hybrid would be though - but you will pay a bit more for these than an equivalent standard petrol car.

waynegalway

zilog_jones wrote: »

Comparing engines by displacement is not very useful these days, as there so many other variables to consider. The Octavia 1.0 TSI is a turbocharged 3-cylinder engine delivering about 115 bhp, whereas a 3rd Gen ('09-'15) Prius has a 1.8 4-cylinder engine that is actually less powerful (about 100 bhp) - but it is a very efficient Atkinson cycle engine, which on its own would be pretty gutless, but combined with electric motors works pretty well (combined output claimed at about 134 bhp). Even though it may weigh a bit more than the Octavia (similar size car), it has better aerodynamics and would on average return better fuel economy (about 56 vs. 46 MPG based on Spritmonitor users).

But at the OP's budget, these newer small turbo petrols aren't an option (Octavia 1.0 TSI only came out in 2015, for example). An early 3rd gen Prius or Auris Hybrid would be though - but you will pay a bit more for these than an equivalent standard petrol car.

Fair enough, I was just making the point that a smaller petrol engine might be just as suitable for the OP as a hybrid, given the mileage involved.

All these choices come down to individual use-cases, and it's great that the OP is getting opinions from all sides.

For €10k, what could the OP get?

2010/11 Prius (56mpg going on the figures you've got). That's about 5l/100km. How much is a litre of petrol, €1.38? So, about €6.90 per 100km.
2011/12 Golf 1.2 petrol (about the same mpg as Prius, maybe even more according to Spiritmonitor). Say €6.50/100km for arguments sake.
2012/13, maybe even 14 LEAF (no real MPG, but allowing 15kWh per 100km, and 15c per kWh, you're looking at about €2.25 per 100km if you charge at home).

If you keep each of these for 4 years, working off the OP estimate of 20,000km per year, the fuel costs would be:

Prius: about €5,520 (may well be more as petrol prices inevitably go up in that time)
Golf: about €5,200 (may well be more as petrol prices inevitably go up in that time)
LEAF: about €1,800 (if charging at home 100% of the time. This figure could easily be lower if doing some charges on public network)

So, as one of the main things the OP was asking about was cost savings over the next 3/4 years, there's not much difference in savings between a hyrbid and a smaller engined petrol car, if you're spending €10k to purchase.