Did it ever make sense to move from an old combustion car to a new EV

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518127#Comment_121518127

The Kona, for a petrol version it was 20k? I think. The inside is poor. The electric version was close to 40k, same interior. Now my parents picked up a nice one for 25k I think with minimal mileage on it but they got a brand new battery put into it so it made sense.

Anyone with any EV got roasted. How muhc was a diesel Tiguan compared to the ID.4?

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517783#Comment_121517783

Yeah. My father never bought a new car in his life. He drove plenty of cars with the current year number on the registration plate. (He had contacts in the car industry so he would buy the cars that others registered and didn't like so they traded them soon after)

He was driving top spec practically new cars that someone else took the biggest depreciation hit on.

I was always amazed that there were people out there who just changed their mind on a brand new car after a few weeks and were happy to take the hit, but it seems there were always a few

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518144#Comment_121518144

Yeah those Kona EV have depreciated like a rock, think I saw one posted for 16k on donedeal few weeks ago, were bones of 40k new, fine car for that price

Petrol is holding well, lowest price is 14k for 2019 ( 21k new )

2019 HYUNDAI KONA.. MANUAL.. WARRANTY INCLUDED.. for sale in Co. Dublin for €14,700 on DoneDeal

EV Kona lowest price 19k ( 40k new )

Hyundai kona electric 64kw high spec for sale in Co. Dublin for €18,950 on DoneDeal

aidanodr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518214#Comment_121518214

"I was always amazed that there were people out there who just changed their mind on a brand new car after a few weeks and were happy to take the hit, but it seems there were always a few"

Ireland is a very very very rich country. Something like €150bn in savings accounts of all sorts at the moment and rising. 300,000+ or so working in FDI, all well paid with serious pensions etc. Im not begrudging at all .. just saying when you do have lots of coin and are secure with same taking hits like that are a thing of nothing.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517947#Comment_121517947

Totally incorrect.

I got 40,034 km and 3.5 years from my tyres.

What car have you got and what size tyres are you replacing?

What size wheels have you got on the EV relative to the ICE you had?

Then, the age old advice, did you shop around for tyres or buy from a main dealer?

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518112#Comment_121518112

Just an enthusiast, not a dealer at all. Dealers make money 😁

munsterfan2

We recently moved from a 20 year old Avensis ( 2l petrol ) as it was starting to give trouble / expensive to run. It said we were getting 7l/100k - moved to 4 yo Kona EV, so approx 16kw/100k. Doing approx 1000km / week and managing to charge primarily at energia 7.5c. 1000km = 49l = ~€80 per week vs 160kw = ~€12. With petrol savings & tax savings thats approx 4000 per annum. Kona cost 20k, got €750 for the avensis so should have paid off the purchase cost in approx 4 years. Will then have an 8 y.o kona which will hopefully keep going for another 10 years.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518062#Comment_121518062

Ah but I wrote "The real green deal of course should be to persuade the public to give up their cars, whether EV or ICE."

Government and Greens are not quite the same thing are they. Presumably EV owners are partly persuaded by 'low emissions' motoring? If they are really concerned, they should give up personal transport vehicles altogether.

As for fuel taxes, they are putting them back on as quickly as they can.

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518255#Comment_121518255

You did very well, you left someone else take the 20k depreciation and you got a brand new battery too in that Kona

Used EV's like that with a decent warranty are a good buy.

Kona EV is rapid too, test drove one once too and it moves for a small car

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518278#Comment_121518278

It’s the same 204bhp motor that’s in the Niro and the ID4, ID3 etc

It feels quick if you’re not used to EV’s. The Leaf used to feel quick with its instant torque!

Idbatterim

An ev compared to a rattling stinking diesel junker, will be a massive upgrade in terms of drive. But yeah, I'd question any "savings" what is the motor tax rate on EV? E120?

in relation to the above avensis to kona change, if you paid interest on a loan, that has to be taken into account too...

aidanodr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518246#Comment_121518246

I did not say I have an EV. I have nothing against EVs.

Your "Totally Incorrect" statement is i assume your own conclusion from your own EV experience vs a general all around statement of fact?

Re tyres - just from reading ( eg recent article on this in Irish times - paywall ) .. discussing pretty much this:

https://www.fleeteurope.com/en/new-energies/europe/features/ev-tyres-last-10000km-less-ice-tyres

( The findings are based on data from e-commerce specialist epyx )

I have found .. especially from people who it is there first foray into EVs - that EV tyres are different from and more expensive than ICE tyres for these reasons:

"The cost of replacing EV tyres more frequently is exacerbated by the higher price of EV tyres due to reinforced sidewalls to deal with the extra weight of batteries, as well as special compounds for quieter driving and lower rolling resistance. Some EV tyres may even have reduced tread depths, which would also impact on the frequency of their replacement cycle."

Not advisable to use regular ICE tyres on an EV

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517947#Comment_121517947

my EV weighs a lot, the wheels are 21" (as was my old ICE car), i am on track to get around 2 years out of them or circa 30,000 km. I dont see a difference but i am comparing like with like on size at least.

Basilio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518219#Comment_121518219

Cheapest non BEV Automatic Kona is 20K+ same like EV kona with similar mileage. I would compare Automatic non BEV vehicles to EVs as manual ICE cars are in different market segment.

January 2019 Kona for €15900 was a High mileage example. You would need to see vehicle and drive to compare. 2019 Kona with 157,000km would not be valued same money as one with 30,000km. So €20K+ would be a fair price point for 64kWh battery 2019 Kona with working AC, and replaced battery under recall.

aidanodr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518498#Comment_121518498

@Cyrus Two interesting snippets from that article:

"According to epyx, which is owned by FLEETCOR, the first tyre change for electric cars is taking place at an average of 28,776km and 551 days old, compared to 38,936km and 670 days for petrol and diesel cars. "

"Epyx data released in March in the UK showed the average replacement tyre fitted to an EV measured 47.2cm (18.59 inches) and cost €240 (£207) while the corresponding figures for petrol and diesel cars were 44.2cm (17.40 inches) and €150 (£130)."

Basilio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518438#Comment_121518438

All depends on a driving stile. Had original set of tires for 60,000km on a 2017 Ioniq 28kWh.

Now driving Kona with 32k km, looks like tires will be road legal after 50K. Somebody driving in Sport Mode, utilizing full power, will kill them in no time. Same with ICE cars.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518438#Comment_121518438

My experience from owning the guts of 9 EV’s yes. I’ve had 16” wheels, 17” wheels, 19” wheels, 20” wheels and 21” wheels throughout that time so my experience is that area.

And basing it on posts from other users on here. So real world and not some article that may be half truths.

EV tyres are the same or similar prices as others when you make an effort and shop around, use tyreleader, black circles etc

Who advised you that it you shouldn’t use regular tyres on an EV? Any tyre with the correct load rating and weight rating can be used on any car. The only difference that some specific ev tyres have is the foam insert that “reduces” road noise. In the real world it doesn’t, maybe in the lab!

Core6

The focus of this discussion seems to be entirely on the cost.

Nothing wrong with that but there is a big element on the purchase of an EV that is influenced by the environmental impact -- at least there was on my decision and I am sure it is for others too.

Also, the running cost of an EV is dramatically cheaper than a diesel or, in particular, a petrol car.

I am getting 350-450kms on my EV for under €7. Some are getting it for free if they have PV solar.

€7 is less than the cost of 1 gallon of petrol or diesel which might get a petrol car 40miles/65km or a diesel 50miles/80km.

aidanodr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518556#Comment_121518556

For example here, but many articles on this:

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/electric/best-tyres-for-electric-cars/

... You might be tempted to just buy a set of normal car tyres and be done with it.

However, doing that could be a bad move for your car, the new tyres, and your overall electric car running costs. For starters, buying a set of tyres designed for a conventional petrol or diesel car might not allow you to maximise the benefits and capabilities of your electric car; aspects such as handling, acceleration, refinement and comfort could all be affected – and some tyres may not last long in powerful electric car applications.

If you want to maximise the potential of an electric vehicle – EV – it’s a good idea to fit tyres that are designed specifically for that application, or at least approved for it. Electric cars are heavier than their petrol or diesel counterparts, which puts extra strain on the tyres.

As you’ve probably noticed, electric motors also produce a lot of torque, which further increases the demands made on tyres. Consequently, if you buy a regular tyre for your electric car, you may find that it wears more quickly than you expected and doesn’t provide the traction you need.

The FLEET article in my other Post above says this:

"The cost of replacing EV tyres more frequently is exacerbated by the higher price of EV tyres due to reinforced sidewalls to deal with the extra weight of batteries, as well as special compounds for quieter driving and lower rolling resistance. Some EV tyres may even have reduced tread depths, which would also impact on the frequency of their replacement cycle."

OK .. you disagree, fair enough. Their is a difference tween regular ICE tyres and EV tyres, latter can be more expensive.

These are not obscure publications as you imply and dismiss ( via "not some article that may be half truths." ) .. but again fair enough, thats your opinion from your own experience.

tom1ie

It doesn't make sense to move from a debt free ICE to any car where you would need a loan to buy that car.

I don’t think anyone can realistically argue with the above statement.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518438#Comment_121518438

It depends, buy the proper tires and they will wear similar to a combustion car and I have both.

I did try a recommended "cheaper" tyre once and even the garage was amazed at how quick it wore down. I normally wouldn't put them on but was in rush and all they had in stock. Never again.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518634#Comment_121518634

And that's been the resounding advice as far as i can see.

Core6

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518634#Comment_121518634

I might easily make sense if the debt free car is giving grief.

All cars finally get beyond their economic repair value where the cost of repair exceeds the replacement cost or market value.

Then the owner must decide whether to continue to pump in good money after bad or replace the car.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518634#Comment_121518634

I did it and saved money. Going from bangernomics diesels to an EV. I was doing 50-60k a year though.

Basilio

For me main concern would be A rated on wet, A rated on sound and at least B rated on fuel consumption.

Was it designed for EV or not is all about Marketing. All potential fuel saving could be totally offset by driving underinflated "EV tires" as compare to well balanced and properly inflated Mid Range non EV design .

traco

I did these maths multiple times over the last few years for Mrs Tracos bus and it was hard to justity savings. She had a 2007 Mercedes ML320Cdi so €1,500 tax per year and last few years a fill was an average of €150 which hurt. I am farily handy so did most of the looking after it myself. Working the numbers it would be several years before we would be net positive by switching.

However in mid September it threw a fault. I scanned and loads of canbus errors. Water in rear wheelarches so suspected a rear SAM at miniumum which wouls cost GBP£800+ with my contacts and alos me coding it and getting it working. No gaurantee it would end there and tax was also due in Oct. Based on that I reckoned we would be at least 3k down and potentially have more issues plus she is on the M50 for work and had sort of lost confidence in it. Probably average 20k kms per year.

Anyway some rapid fire tets drives and comparisions and then with the Tesla end od Q3 push it was decided that the best value option was a Model Y out the door for 45.7k which I think was a very good deal for what we got. Hopefully there won't be more huge discounts but I'm not that bothered as we tend to keep cars for teh long haul as tools and I have fun cars for entertainment.

So even with out exterem use case I would honestly think we aren't saving a whole lot and she has free charging at work. I'd say its about a wash but there is big step up in terms of the user experience and tech for a 16 year old Merc but she still misses it.

My own daily, currently not being used is a 2010 Skoda Tdi with just shy of 400k kms and the plan is to keep it untill it throws in the towel at which point I may jump to a used EV but who knows as work needs (currently not an option for me) when do require long distance runs.

If you have to change and look at like for like pricing either new or used then an EV will save you something every year but its not free money and you won't retire off it.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518233#Comment_121518233

That's just what is in Ireland!

saabsaab

In terms of reducing emissions CO2 etc. many diesels can run unaltered on HVO. A 90% reduction is quoted pity its nor more widely available and on a par price wise. Pity it's nor promoted by the Government like the EVs..

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121519359#Comment_121519359

We're long past CO2 being the primary focus of emissions reduction, it's as much about the local particulate emissions these days. This is why we're seeing much tighter regulations on exhaust particulate matter NOx and coming regulations on the tyre particulates. HVO as a solution is very much solving the same problem that the now ridiculed 2008 diesel tax incentives sought to solve.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121519410#Comment_121519410

Still a significant improvement over diesel.