Did it ever make sense to move from an old combustion car to a new EV

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517701#Comment_121517701

a 43k new car might be worth 18k after 2 years, youd hope anyone buying a new car would be aware of depreciation.... EV or otherwise.

Redfox25

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517694#Comment_121517694

You dropped your tinfoil hat Furze99.

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517709#Comment_121517709

Gaslighting now.

Why even talk about fuel saving then if everyone should know a new car is gonna lose 20k+ in 2 years

Unkel wrote ( he didn't even know what year car he had at this point, gave his advice anyway lol )

"People who do a daily 160km commute will save a fortune in an EV. His weekly 130 in diesel will go down to 20 in electricity"

No talk of deprecation here

Is an electric an option - Page 2 — boards.ie - Now Ye're Talkin'

aidanodr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121514851#Comment_121514851

"Leaving that aside, can VW keep going with the price drop, do they have the margin to do so? I believe Tesla could drop another bit and still make money"

This is where the Chinese EVs coming in here now have the advantage and have alot of leg room to drop there prices significantly.

I posted here a while back ( with links ) .. this Funky Cat small EV is currently €29K here ( starting / basic price ). Same car in China is €14k

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517701#Comment_121517701

deprecation is only really affecting those who bought in the last year when prices were inflated.

people who are buying now are getting the car cheaper ( which is what’s driving depreciation) and people who bought in pre 2023. For their cars before the price increased.

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517699#Comment_121517699

Yeah that's the way it should be.

Keep that MG for 14 years as well.

oinkely

Did it ever make sense to move from an old ICE to a new EV - probably not.

But then it's never really made much sense to buy a new car for anyone ever!

Depreciation has always been there for new cars, the 'driving it off the forecourt tax' as my dad always called it, and my grandad, and he is long dead! So in the olden days changing a used car for any new car was the same value proposition. It was going to cost you - and probably quite handsomely.

There's lots of man-maths done to justify new car purchases, and lots of ways to come to the conclusion that it is a worthwhile endeavor. But in reality, in all but a few rare exceptions, buying a new car is gong to cost you in depreciation. In fact, buying almost any car is going to cost you in depreciation. They are almost exclusively a depreciating asset (or liability if you get unlucky!).

It's just a case of buying what you can afford and accepting that it will cost you money to own and will be worth a lot less when you come to part with it.

In some cases it makes more sense to buy an EV than an ICE as the weekly running costs are considerably less and you could be sitting in a nicer/newer vehicle for a similar outlay per week when all running costs were taken into account (fuel, servicing, loan repayments). For a while the depreciation on EVs was very low, but that is over now it seems with more normal depreciation kicking back in, maybe a bit higher than normal due to the elevated new prices over the last few years and the constraints on supply.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517751#Comment_121517751

im not sure you know what gaslighting means,

unless you can point to someone who said dont worry there will be no depreciation on your brand new car you are talking rubbish.

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517694#Comment_121517694

As a general principle, it's often amusingly astute to lean in the opposite direction of whatever the government is enthusiastically endorsing😉

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517733#Comment_121517733

And we'll all be needing them...

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517783#Comment_121517783

thats it really, what people were doing is saying ok i can get a new car, itll cost me 500 a month in repayments, if im saving 300 a month on fuel then the net cost is 200,

thats just the usual man maths though.

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517805#Comment_121517805

That was rare though, very few people asked should I get a brand new petrol Golf or brand new ID3.

The most common post was I have a 5-10 year old Passat or the like, its getting old, repairs are starting to creep in, its costing me €60 a week in diesel, I have a driveway.

Cue, go buy a new EV.

You really didn't see those threads?

aidanodr

I note many here are saying BUYING a new car and in some cases owning a new car. Is this the case these days? In essense you are paying for a rolling SUBSCRIPTION via the most popular way to "purchase" a car being PCP. So you never actually own the car + using that car comes with strict terms and conditions that dictate its future PCP value when rolling it over in 3 years.

i would think all this would also need to be in the mix when calculating the "savings"

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517830#Comment_121517830

they were asking in a thread about EVs, obviously it was an EV they were interested in, im sure people have also moved from old ICE to new ICE, i would expect in all scenarios that these people expected their new cars to depreciate.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517694#Comment_121517694

Diesels will be available to buy new till 2030, a diesel will be still running long past that

The Irish government has zero say over what cars the manufacturers make and push, the push from manufacturers has come in the last few years because they could make crazy margins on electric cars and people had no problem paying it.

Reducing speed limits has been going on in different ways since cars first came on the road. You might be surprised but a combustion car also performs a lot better at lower speeds.

Diesel and petrol will be gone off the roads if the manufacturers decide to stop making them, not a single word an irish government person says will change that.

MrMusician18

I was always highly skeptical of that total cost of ownership argument that was prevalent here for ages, particularly in the original Hyundai Ionic era. It was only ever true when the market was not functioning properly and certainly isn't true now. People can tend to only look at the positives of their decision, I think to affirm that they were correct.

Old diesel has always been the king of economy and will remain so while EV fast charging remains expensive and range relatively limited.

I moved from old diesel to nearly new EV and the running costs savings that were often touted here have not materialised. Fuelling is, on average, half the cost of diesel and we haven't had need to service it yet. If it were ICE within a few months it would be over halfway to it's interval, whereas it's over a year and a half from it as an EV. Tyres are significantly more expensive and the extra over for them over ICE is pretty much is the cost of a service.

I decided to go EV for a number of reasons: 1. the diesel was getting on and a bill in excess of the cars value had to be coming soon - so the car had to be changed. 2. The EV driving experience is much nicer. 3. The market I believed was shifting to electric and there is a risk of having a stranded asset it 2-3 years time. I liked the idea of a day to day lower running cost too - I did think it would be significantly lower than it is though.

Many of those reasons remain valid of course, but I do wonder if the choice I've made will result in me ending up with the stranded asset now. I have budgeted for a further 50% depreciation but after VW have cut their prices I think that might be optimistic, will anyone pay €16k for a five year old ID4? Used 5yo Tiguans go for much more today and they start at a similar price point to ID4.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517874#Comment_121517874

why are tyres much more expensive? is it just that you have bigger wheels or is it something else?

ELM327

New ICE vs New EV will always save you money.

New EV vs Bangernomics ICE will not always. It did for me but I was doing 50k+ a year and the leaf I had at the time made it cheaper than doing the miles in a bangernomics diesel ran on agri and kero mix!

New ICE vs Used EV will save you money in the EV.

Used ICE vs New EV - this is where you may or may not save. Again, if you don't drive much and you buy a 5k prius vs a 50k BZ4X or something, it will take a long ass time if ever to recover the 45k delta.

aidanodr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517901#Comment_121517901

Weight apparently. They are a bit dearer also I think. seems one gets less than a year in some cases ..

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517901#Comment_121517901

Big wheels and heavier weight mean they are more expensive.

Because of the weight you need to have them inflated to a significantly higher pressure and if you are not on top of that they wear unevenly. The high torque off the line, while fun, is also hard on the tyres too.

boredatwork82

i think every case is different.

in my case i have a large commute. i get free charging in work. my repayment on the car every month is less than my fuel bill was on my last car (2tdi skoda, no repayments owned car outright). not by a huge amount though.

also far less maintenance costs on the EV.

but my EV is more comfortable, nicer to drive, quieter.

so it made sense to change. but i dont think EV's make sense for everyone. if the taxman or work start charging for parking at work i will be straight back to a diesel.

Miscreant

If you want a new car, just go ahead and buy one, whether it is an EV or not. All of the calculations done in people's heads to justify it are mostly meaningless as there is always something you will miss along the way such as servicing, wear and tear, repairs out of warranty and so on.

Unless you are getting a new EV for free, it does not make much financial sense to switch from an ICE vehicle to "save money". Cars are depreciating assets and we are now seeing a correction of second hand values (and GFMV calculations) in the market after the craziness of post COVID prices and shortages of vehicles. When changing my car last time I actually "made" €2k on the price I had originally paid for my car against a trade in for an EV. Looking at it now, however, the price I paid for my EV has dropped by at least as much if not more so I have now effectively "lost" money. I did not change my car out of necessity but because I wanted a full EV. That was a choice. In the grand scheme of things, I would have been financially better off to the tune of about €10k by not changing.

The running costs for my EV, in terms of fuel, are practically zero (I can charge in work for free) but they were roughly the same with my previous car (a PHEV that I could also charge in work for free). Truth be told, and this will be controversial; I sometimes wish I had not changed from the PHEV as it was the best of both worlds for me. I don't like having to use public fast charging when I travel to the West of Ireland for family visits as it is usually either busy or busted and at least with the PHEV, I could just fill up with petrol and go (I usually make the return trip on the same day so destination charging is useless with a granny cable once I arrive). I will think very long and hard before replacing my current EV with another one and may even go back to a PHEV when the time comes.

I certainly will be under no illusions that I am saving money by buying one car over another. Everything has pros and cons and everyone's circumstances will be different... or, as has been said in countless vehicle ads in the last few years: YMMV! 🙂

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517916#Comment_121517916

Like this nugget?

EV cost savings - Page 4 — boards.ie - Now Ye're Talkin'

Though I must say you were one of the sane posters, so fair play. Look at Kcross and Unkel on page 4 both laughably wrong, the reply to your depreciation question lol

ELM327

" the fact that the car is depreciating and I got a fright at the notion of trying to sell a 3yo Ioniq in 2 years with 120k on the clock "

KCross

"Shouldnt be a problem. As time moves on the used market for EV's is only going to get stronger, not weaker."

Unkel

"No need to worry there at all. Have you not noticed that a 7 year old Leaf is worth more now than it was 2 years ago when it was just 5 years old? EVs will keep their value well for years to come"

😂

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517864#Comment_121517864

Well, we'll see - but it would be naïve to think that government policy won't use whatever stick it can in order to persuade the public in the new direction. They'll incentivise EVs whilst increasing cost of ownership/ running of petrol/ diesel. Of course, it'll be a balancing act too as they need to be mindful of how to recover motoring taxes from EVs.

The real green deal of course should be to persuade the public to give up their cars, whether EV or ICE.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517974#Comment_121517974

5 year old necroposting. Niice. You're some mad lad anyway that's for sure.

Anyway, yeah I was more concerned about the depreciation and stuff then, as that €526 loan payment was a large part of my disposable income at the time and we were saving for a mortgage deposit. That was 2018 and my income has doubled since then, we've moved house and had 6 further EVs, of which 1 was a second Ioniq (!) and we still have 3 of the subsequently purchased EVs. Turned out I didnt lose money on the Ioniq in the end as I sold it for almost what I paid for it and it's in the hands of another boardsie as far as I know. As is my other Ioniq!

techman1

Diesels will be available to buy new till 2030, a diesel will be still running long past that

They will actually still be available to buy new until 2035, the EU over ruled the Irish government saying they were nor allowed to jump the gun. Even 2035 is open to question due to the German car industry using their political power in Germany to push this out further due to not being ready by 2035

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517975#Comment_121517975

If the government is using a stick to get people to buy EV's then why would they want to get them to give up those cars? and the taxes?

Didn't they cut taxes on combustion fuel for the last while?

Not sure you have thought out this entirely have you?

Clo-Clo

In terms of electric cars, does it make sense? I bought during the last crash in electric cars. Kept for years and then sold on during the boom.

Took a company car out then on 0% BIK and drive that for years, once it didn't make sense I bought it out and still have it today. It will be driven till the wheels fall off it, over 150k km so far.

I looked at a new Electric car and when I seen people paying over 40k for a Renault I knew it was totally ridiculous and left them at the show room.

Anyone who paid crazy money on an EV in the last few years must have been aware the depreciation was going to be huge on them.

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518015#Comment_121518015

Your a car enthusiast or a wheeler dealer? That's a lot of changing

Yeah the EV market for a short time was like Bangernomics are now, value going up or holding very well, only difference was instead of playing market roulette with a 1k banger it was a 41k EV.

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518076#Comment_121518076

Good point

When a car like a little Peugeot 208 came in EV form for 36k new alarm bells should have been ringing, only a few years back that car in a 1.2l petrol was 18k new

Anyone with a French EV are gonna get roasted depreciation wise