Black people Racism in Workplace in Ireland

AllForIt

bubblypop wrote: »

How do you know the gypsy group was Romanian?

Are you having a laugh now?

AllForIt

AllForIt wrote: »

Are you having a laugh now?

No I'm serious.
How do you know the gypsies were Romanian?

AllForIt

bubblypop wrote: »

No I'm serious.
How do you know the gypsies were Romanian?

I gave you a chance to elaborate there but you didn't, you just repeated youself. What diffence does it make if they are Romanians or Hugarians? They are still non-natives which is the point I was getting at to begin with. If you ask me how do I know they are non-natives I won't reply to you again.

AllForIt

AllForIt wrote: »

I gave you a chance to elaborate there but you didn't, you just repeated youself. What diffence does it make if they are Romanians or Hugarians? They are still non-natives which is the point I was getting at to begin with. If you ask me how do I know they are non-natives I won't reply to you again.

Right so, no idea what nationality they were but you assume they are Romanian, then they might be Hungarian. Sure noone is racist here I'm sure!!
And you assumed they were Romanian because they were with Romanian gypsies, who may also be Hungarian gypsies?
Gas.

KyussB

Deleted User wrote: »

Lol, "actual black people".

Do you honestly believe that black people are a hive mind group?

Not all black people experience the same things.

People are people.

It's so telling that your whole premise is:

"Hey black people, tell us how hard it is to be you".

Talk about bigotry of low expectations.

I have absolutely no reason to believe that black people have it harder than white people.

I don't know how you warped what I posted, into that bullshit.

Pointing out the lack of posts from anyone who is black, on a thread about black people experiencing racism - is apparently fucking controversial to some - to the point they'll try to malign/smear pointing this out.

AllForIt

bubblypop wrote: »

Right so, no idea what nationality they were but you assume they are Romanian, then they might be Hungarian. Sure noone is racist here I'm sure.

Right well next time I'm subjected to intimidation by strangers in the park I'll ask for their passports to verifty their nationaly so that noone can accuse me of being racist when I recount the incident, because assuming nationalty is a clear sign of racism.

AllForIt

AllForIt wrote: »

Right well next time I'm subjected to intimidation by strangers in the park I'll ask for their passports to verifty their nationaly so that noone can accuse me of being racist when I recount the incident, because assuming nationalty is a clear sign of racism.

Your video is of Roma gypsies

wes

An Asylum seeker org receiving death threats:
https://twitter.com/masi_asylum/status/1398014028086136832?s=20

While Ireland is far better than most other European countries, we are starting to have a far right problem.

KyussB

KyussB wrote: »

I don't know how you warped what I posted, into that bullshit.

Pointing out the lack of posts from anyone who is black, on a thread about black people experiencing racism - is apparently fucking controversial to some - to the point they'll try to malign/smear pointing this out.

You have absolutely no idea how many people may be black on this thread.

None.

Zero.

You just assumed they were all white.

Which implies you know what black people would say.

That's racist chief.

There's no other way to look at it.

KyussB

Again, I don't know where you're getting that warped bollocks from - it's very obviously a smear tactic - my post asked, with me asking after looking back to see if anyone identified themselves as black (nobody has).

KyussB wrote: »

Out of curiosity, is there even one black person commenting on this thread?

TomTomTim

wes wrote: »

An Asylum seeker org receiving death threats:
https://twitter.com/masi_asylum/status/1398014028086136832?s=20

While Ireland is far better than most other European countries, we are starting to have a far right problem.

I can only see one clip in that thread as "evidence" and it doesn't seem to support what Mark is claiming. If not saying he's lying, but he's certainly lacking in evidence so far. Why hasn't made clips that support his claims?

JMNolan

TomTomTim wrote: »

I can only see one clip in that thread as "evidence" and it doesn't seem to support what Mark is claiming. If not saying he's lying, but he's certainly lacking in evidence so far. Why hasn't made clips that support his claims?

I've seen a lot of people and organisations use perceived "threats" as weapons to get opposition deplatformed. Of course, not saying thats what happened here.

KyussB

KyussB wrote: »

Again, I don't know where you're getting that warped bollocks from - it's very obviously a smear tactic - my post asked, with me asking after looking back to see if anyone identified themselves as black (nobody has).

Your first post asked. Then you stated that not a single contribution was from a black person

Not bollocks, not a smear.

KyussB wrote: »

You don't think it's notable that in a thread making such sweeping statements regarding black people and their experiences here - that not a single poster contributing their view is black?

Fun fact, black people dont often start posts with

"As a black person...."

and are under no obligation to declare their ethnicity when you request it.

KyussB

You're acting out of disingenuous 'concern', to try and smear me as racist - for pointing out that 'maybe' people shouldn't be coming to sweeping conclusions/judgements about the experiences of black people, absent the presence/contribution of the actual views/experiences of black people on this thread.

To present that as racist is fucking absurd and disingenuous.

After a brief look, you have a history of flippantly throwing the 'racist' accusation around on this forum when it does not apply - except you are the only one who has used racist/bigoted terms and gotten in trouble for that, on this forum.

Based on your disingenuous style of posting on all race related topics, it seems to me like you're trying to tilt the narrative in a racist direction - and you've got the posting history to show it.

KyussB

KyussB wrote: »

You're acting out of disingenuous 'concern', to try and smear me as racist - for pointing out that 'maybe' people shouldn't be coming to sweeping conclusions/judgements about the experiences of black people, absent the presence/contribution of the actual views/experiences of black people on this thread.

To present that as racist is fucking absurd and disingenuous.

After a brief look, you have a history of flippantly throwing the 'racist' accusation around on this forum when it does not apply - except you are the only one who has used racist/bigoted terms and gotten in trouble for that, on this forum.

Based on your disingenuous style of posting on all race related topics, it seems to me like you're trying to tilt the narrative in a racist direction - and you've got the posting history to show it.

That's what race baiters do. Virtue signal their way through life so they can feel better about themselves and make themselves look all high and mighty. They don't care about black people or minorities.

suicide_circus

My experience of the treatment of "minorities" (ugh) in the workplace and professional settings in Ireland is that people walk on eggshells around them, which in itself is regressive but is an inevitable consequence of the type of hyper sensitive policies beloved of HR goons and twitter gimps across the land.

Jacksie66.

Jacksie66. wrote: »

That's what race baiters do. Virtue signal their way through life so they can feel better about themselves and make themselves look all high and mighty. They don't care about black people or minorities.

Strangely enough, that was the impression I got from KyussB's post. This glib attempt to shutdown others opinions, by claiming the need for black peoples opinions, before that of white people.

As if this board isn't made up of predominately white people, since Ireland is a predominately white nation... but also the belief that Black would announce themselves (their race) before stating their opinions, or even identify themselves because KyussB asked. It would be obvious that the majority posters would be white, so the repeated posts about the need for Black people to state their opinions, would be an attempt to shut down discussion.

As with what you said, I'm skeptical of people who do this, and frankly, I seriously doubt that they care about Black people, or minorities. It just strikes me as an example of people who can't tolerate others opinions.

The topic is racism in Ireland, and white Irish people should be able to state their opinions on the subject.. because they are opinions.

MASI "We will not live in fear, that's why we claimed asylum"... l...o...l.

Every one of them I've encountered has gone home on holidays once they're been given their status here.

Apparently following up after the fact isnt important.
Be kind of like being given a grant to spend on a house and then people were blowing it on the horses as there was no follow up.

You also dont flee terror by taking flights through multiple countries before landing at your end destination.

Usually those fleeing terror move on foot and to the nearest safe spot.

Joke group.

Outkast_IRE

gilberto_eire wrote: »

MASI "We will not live in fear, that's why we claimed asylum"... l...o...l.

Every one of them I've encountered has gone home on holidays once they're been given their status here.

Apparently following up after the fact isnt important.
Be kind of like being given a grant to spend on a house and then people were blowing it on the horses as there was no follow up.

You also dont flee terror by taking flights through multiple countries before landing at your end destination.

Usually those fleeing terror move on foot and to the nearest safe spot.

Joke group.

Unfortunately my experience is the same, holidays with the family back home every year or two . Fly via London .

Swindled

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Unfortunately my experience is the same, holidays with the family back home every year or two . Fly via London .

One in our workplace, one who got Irish citizenship through Asylum, regularly flashed around the offices his walled mansion under construction he's building in his hometown thanks to his Irish job. You can't blame these people personally for playing along the wide open system, few people would not in their situation, but let's not pretend what this situation is.

KyussB

Deleted User wrote: »

Strangely enough, that was the impression I got from KyussB's post. This glib attempt to shutdown others opinions, by claiming the need for black peoples opinions, before that of white people.

As if this board isn't made up of predominately white people, since Ireland is a predominately white nation... but also the belief that Black would announce themselves (their race) before stating their opinions, or even identify themselves because KyussB asked. It would be obvious that the majority posters would be white, so the repeated posts about the need for Black people to state their opinions, would be an attempt to shut down discussion.

As with what you said, I'm skeptical of people who do this, and frankly, I seriously doubt that they care about Black people, or minorities. It just strikes me as an example of people who can't tolerate others opinions.

The topic is racism in Ireland, and white Irish people should be able to state their opinions on the subject.. because they are opinions.

Again, you're making up stuff that I never said here. Suddenly pointing out the absence of views/experiences from black people, in a thread about the experiences of black people in Ireland - is an attempt to "shutdown others opinions, by claiming the need for black peoples opinions, before that of white people".

That's a load of disingenuous bollocks. Fake concern about a non-existent attempt to 'shutdown' others views.

Nothing is stopping anyone from stating their opinions. Noting the lack of contributions from anyone with first-hand experience of what the topic is about, is relevant to the thread and does fuck all to stop anyone expressing their views.

KyussB

KyussB wrote: »

Again, you're making up stuff that I never said here. Suddenly pointing out the absence of views/experiences from black people, in a thread about the experiences of black people in Ireland - is an attempt to "shutdown others opinions, by claiming the need for black peoples opinions, before that of white people".

"Originally Posted by KyussB
You don't think it's notable that in a thread making such sweeping statements regarding black people and their experiences here - that not a single poster contributing their view is black?

I'm saying that if people are going to make such sweeping statements about black people and their experiences - largely white Irish people - should we not hear the experiences of actual black people in Ireland first, and their views on this - before forming our third/fourth-hand judgements?"

So.. nothing made up.

That's a load of disingenuous bollocks. Fake concern about a non-existent attempt to 'shutdown' others views.

Nothing is stopping anyone from stating their opinions. Noting the lack of contributions from anyone with first-hand experience of what the topic is about, is relevant to the thread and does fuck all to stop anyone expressing their views.

True enough, nothing is stopping anyone from stating their opinions, but it was still an attempt to frame the discussion, and set boundaries. That the opinions of White people are of less value on such a topic, and should wait for Black people to express themselves first (who don't seem to exist on this thread).

The numbers of Black people on boards are likely rather small... since Ireland is a predominately White nation.... this leads to an attempt to shutdown a discussion. Seems pretty obvious to me. Stay quiet on the topic because you're not Black and so, can't have any kind of useful opinion on the topic.

In any case, I'm done with this. You keep doubling down each time an objection is raised, and there's little value in continuing.

KyussB

You bloody are making stuff up - nothing you've quoted is an attempt to shut down anyones view.

This is a thread about the experiences of black people - so of course the opinions of people who are not black, are of less value?

Primary/first-hand accounts/experiences - are of more value than second/third/fourth-hand accounts etc.. That is not controversial at all.

The closest this thread has to the experiences of actual black people in Ireland, is this report I posted earlier - highlighting between 30-50% perception of experiencing racist harassment among black people (depending on how far back you look):
https://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/fra-2019-being-black-in-the-eu-summary_en.pdf

WrenBoy

KyussB wrote: »

You bloody are making stuff up - nothing you've quoted is an attempt to shut down anyones view.

This is a thread about the experiences of black people - so of course the opinions of people who are not black, are of less value?

Primary/first-hand accounts/experiences - are of more value than second/third/fourth-hand accounts etc.. That is not controversial at all.

The closest this thread has to the experiences of actual black people in Ireland, is this report I posted earlier - highlighting between 30-50% perception of experiencing racist harassment among black people (depending on how far back you look):
https://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/fra-2019-being-black-in-the-eu-summary_en.pdf

If you are going to accuse a people of being racist then is it not logical that they will want to have their say in the discussion? white Irish people aren't just there to be talked at in discussions about race. Input from immigrant posters would be helpful yes but this attitude of your white so your input is irrelevant isn't productive at all and turns people off engaging with you sincerely.

KyussB

WrenBoy wrote: »

If you are going to accuse a people of being racist then is it not logical that they will want to have their say in the discussion? white Irish people aren't just there to be talked at in discussions about race. Input from immigrant posters would be helpful yes but this attitude of your white so your input is irrelevant isn't productive at all and turns people off engaging with you sincerely.

Again yet another poster expressing fake 'concern' - while smearing what I say - lying about what has been posted.

The one poster who has been labelled as racist by me, is the one who has been in trouble here for using racist/bigoted terms already - while at the same time trying to accuse me of racism (for pointing out the lack of first-hand experiences expressed by black people, here...) - that's the only poster.

You're trying to pretend that my whole series of posts are a collective accusation of racism - which is shit stirring from you.

Deliberately engaging with people insincerely - is exactly the type of tactic used to try and control the narrative in these sorts of discussions - and there are several posters who look like they're doing exactly that.

Are you claiming to be engaging insincerely?

WrenBoy

KyussB wrote: »

Again yet another poster expressing fake 'concern' - while smearing what I say - lying about what has been posted.

The one poster who has been labelled as racist by me, is the one who has been in trouble here for using racist/bigoted terms already - while at the same time trying to accuse me of racism (for pointing out the lack of first-hand experiences expressed by black people, here...) - that's the only poster.

You're trying to pretend that my whole series of posts are a collective accusation of racism - which is shit stirring from you.

Deliberately engaging with people insincerely - is exactly the type of tactic used to try and control the narrative in these sorts of discussions - and there are several posters who look like they're doing exactly that.

Are you claiming to be engaging insincerely?

Im engaging with you sincerely. You seem concerned theres a lack of "black voices" in this thread. Besides you physically going out and getting black people to sign up and engage in the discussion what can we do ?
What would you like us to do ?

KyussB

KyussB wrote: »

You bloody are making stuff up - nothing you've quoted is an attempt to shut down anyones view.

Enough with the making up accusations. I quoted your posts directly, and responded directly to what you had written.. If you want to continue claiming that I'm making crap up, prove it. Shouldn't be difficult.

This is a thread about the experiences of black people - so of course the opinions of people who are not black, are of less value?

No, the thread is about Racism directed towards Black people in the workplace. Since claims were made by Black people (recorded in reports) that racism commonly happens in Ireland, it's open to discussion by White people. We can discuss the likelihood that racism happens, how often it does, and whether such claims are accurate.

You appear to believe that White people can't recognise racism, and that it's exclusively something that only Black people can comment on... and that any opinions white people have should be based on those Black peoples claims.

Primary/first-hand accounts/experiences - are of more value than second/third/fourth-hand accounts etc.. That is not controversial at all.

I never said it was controversial. You introduced that idea in your response to the dunne.

The closest this thread has to the experiences of actual black people in Ireland, is this report I posted earlier - highlighting between 30-50% perception of experiencing racist harassment among black people (depending on how far back you look):
https://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/fra-2019-being-black-in-the-eu-summary_en.pdf

Bully for you. However posters can still comment on what has been claimed.

We've all seen over the years that NGOs and other organisations have a stake in presenting racism as being something more common than it is, even to the point of expanding the concept of racism to cover a much wider scope than the traditional meaning of the term. As such, there can be a natural skepticism when it comes to such reports and claims... and there should be discussion that seeks to examine, and make observations about such claims... not continuing this past behavior of blindly accepting claims that could easily be biased or motivated by something other than the truth.

Now, If you want to discuss the topic of racism in Ireland, and the claims made by Black people or activists... I'm game. Otherwise, I'll leave it at that.

KyussB

WrenBoy wrote: »

Im engaging with you sincerely. You seem concerned theres a lack of "black voices" in this thread. Besides you physically going out and getting black people to sign up and engage in the discussion what can we do ?
What would you like us to do ?

Nothing, really. I noted that point, and I was going to leave it there. Then people starting making shit up about what I posted - and making up absurd racism accusations.

KyussB

Deleted User wrote: »

...

You claimed I was attempting to shut down other peoples opinions - and you failed to back that up, nothing you quoted backs that up - proving that is a false claim. That was made up.

If you can't quote me saying something, don't present me as saying it - your entire post above once again makes up a ton of stuff that I never said. Those are attempts at smearing me.

Your are still trying to claim that I am trying to stop people having this discussion, after I've directly rejected that. You are still lying about what has been said.

If you want to discuss the thread topic etc. go ahead. Don't make up bullshit about me trying to stop you.

Good God. Endless victimhood. Everything is a lie. Fine. Whatever. I'll leave it to others if they want to engage with you.