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Black people Racism in Workplace in Ireland

  • 26-05-2021 10:15am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 787 ✭✭✭ hawley


    Boni Odoemene, co-founder of Black and Irish, says while the demonstrations highlighted the issue of racism in Ireland, he believes there is still a long way to go.

    "There has been somewhat change in the country, in regards to mainstream discourse, and highlighting the issues that are faced by many black and mixed race people in Ireland," he said.

    "One year one, there is still a lot of work to be done.

    "Overall there has been a lot more awareness around the issues around race and racism in Ireland, but there is still a lot of work to be done as we move forward as a country."

    https://www.q102.ie/news/q102-news/more-work-needed-to-address-racism-in-ireland/

    We need to have a conversation around racism in Ireland. It was highlighted earlier in the week on the Claire Byrne. The problem doesn't seem to be getting any better. There is a massive problem with unemployment in the black community. People coming here as asylum seekers need to be supported in education with regard to language skills and suitable working skills. A lot of Irish people don't want to discuss this issue, but it has been shown that there is the problem with racism is worsening here.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 813 ✭✭✭ Mike Murdock


    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Maybe Boni has to ask himself the question as to why more people in the black community are not as driven as he is to embrace education.

    Have you seen his CV?

    Guy has a Law Degree and a Masters's in International Relations and a pretty extensive working record here and in the UK.

    Education, hard work, and resilience are the keys.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators Posts: 81,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭ biko


    There seems to be a lot of people trying to make room for themselves using the racism angle lately.
    These people seem to do very well for themselves, have great jobs and be highly educated.
    At least the racist Irish didn't stop them from that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭ randd1


    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Maybe Boni has to ask himself the question as to why more people in his community are not as driven as he is to embrace education.

    Have you seen his CV?

    Guy has a Law Degree and a Masters's in International Relations and a pretty extensive working record here and in the UK.

    Education is the key.

    Was watching a video of Thomas Sowell recently where he made the point that anywhere in the world where black communities, usually led by religious leaders, embraced education and the nuclear family as the norm, there was virtually no difference in their ability to find work or educational achievements than there are with whites and other races, and they were much less likely to suffer racism, or be bothered by it.

    Basically his point was that having a family unit, education and a good community spirit in place and you'll have a strong, prosperous and peaceful society, regardless of the skin colour of its inhabitants.

    I'd be of the opinion that giving free education to immigrants would probably be far better for us as a society in the long run. And if they don't avail of it, then that's on them as will be the consequences.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭ Smee_Again


    biko wrote: »
    At least the racist Irish didn't stop them from that.

    Some try though, don't they? Rather than argue and refute the points raised by people like Boni, they instead try to attack their character.

    Not that there was much raised in the linked 21 second clip.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,598 ✭✭✭✭ silverharp


    "We need to have a conversation around racism in Ireland" you know that's a bit of a red flag.

    How about a conversation about educational achievement especially if talking about second generation. This week it was "Africa day" and the tagline was they are our doctors our nurses our carers, they seems to be a magical Schrodinger like group of people.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,382 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    randd1 wrote: »
    I'd be of the opinion that giving free education to immigrants would probably be far better for us as a society in the long run. And if they don't avail of it, then that's on them as will be the consequences.

    Wouldn't that be largely wasted though, without the family backing?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 58,873 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Wibbs


    Maybe Boni has to ask himself the question as to why more people in the black community are not as driven as he is to embrace education.
    Or why those in the East Asian community, who are hardly immune to racism and prejudice do better on average than those in the African community and even better on average to the native population. Or why Indian communities do better than average than Pakistani communities when they're the same "race". Or why these trends are repeated in every single multicultural nation out there. If it's racism and that is a lot of it it seems quite the intractable problem over generations.
    biko wrote: »
    There seems to be a lot of people trying to make room for themselves using the racism angle lately.
    Bingo. Now this is in play in other multicultural nations out there, the NGO's the "Race specialists" etc and the media that encourage them, but because Ireland's shift into a multicultural nation was both so rapid and with higher percentages than many, it's more obvious to see its development as an industry here.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭ Jequ0n


    Why does this only apply to black people? Why not Asian etc as well? Are black people the only ones being discriminated against?


  • Registered Users Posts: 813 ✭✭✭ Mike Murdock


    biko wrote: »
    There seems to be a lot of people trying to make room for themselves using the racism angle lately.
    These people seem to do very well for themselves, have great jobs and be highly educated.
    At least the racist Irish didn't stop them from that.

    I'll try and find the name of the guy, but there was another black activist recently talking about systemic racism in Ireland and how it was widespread.

    Guy went from working in Supermacs to studying for a PhD in Law here.

    Surely that is the absolute antithesis of systemic racism?


  • Registered Users Posts: 31,580 ✭✭✭✭ is_that_so


    I've met plenty of new Irish who've done very well for themselves and as they say are good people. Had a conversation with someone recently, who has spent a lot of time abroad. At a business seminar a few of those new to the parish were surprised there was not more of a negative attitude towards them.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,649 ✭✭✭✭ Kintarō Hattori


    Racisim exists everywhere, but to what degree is a different matter. While I know it exists here I would suspect it's far less of an issue than it is in other countries. It will of course exist at all levels of society but I imagine here it's the dregs of our society who are the most vocal.

    I and most of the people I know and associate with don't have an issue with a person's skin colour or religious beliefs. The only issue I'd have with you is if you're a bit of a dick.

    The likes of Ebun Joseph strike me as trying to stoke tension and create a bigger problem where perhaps there isn't so much of an issue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ the dunne


    hawley wrote: »
    -racism-in-ireland/[/url]

    We need to have a conversation around racism in Ireland.

    I'd argue that we need to have less.

    Constant race agitation is causing a larger divide and lessening the impact of ACTUAL racist incidents.

    If anything bad happens to a person of colour it seems some lunatic will claim it to be a racial incident. (Example: George Floyd)

    More conversations need to be honest and accept that people, now more than ever, are responsible for their own actions and outcomes in the vast majority of cases.

    Diluting the importance of recognising race related incidents is harming and driving a wedge between people who want to combat actual racism, and people who want to be seen to want to combat racism.


  • Registered Users Posts: 31,580 ✭✭✭✭ is_that_so


    Jequ0n wrote: »
    Why does this only apply to black people? Why not Asian etc as well? Are black people the only ones being discriminated against?
    Activism, in general, tends to suffer from perception bias and embraces that hierarchy of suffering where others are only minimally affected by it.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 58,873 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Wibbs


    Racisim exists everywhere, but to what degree is a different matter. While I know it exists here I would suspect it's far less of an issue than it is in other countries. It will of course exist at all levels of society but I imagine here it's the dregs of our society who are the most vocal.
    I would say it's lesser here(if it is) because our history of being multicultural is a very short one, about twenty years. Certainly as far as groups from outside Europe. We're still in the honeymoon period to some degree.
    The likes of Ebun Joseph strike me as trying to stoke tension and create a bigger problem where perhaps there isn't so much of an issue.
    It's quite literally her job.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 813 ✭✭✭ Mike Murdock


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    Some try though, don't they? Rather than argue and refute the points raised by people like Boni, they instead try to attack their character.

    Not that there was much raised in the linked 21 second clip.

    Who is attacking his character?

    Boni is a role model of what the young black boys and girls can achieve in Ireland with hard work, dedication, resilience, and, crucially, through embracing tertiary education.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭ Smee_Again


    Who is attacking his character?

    Boni is a role model of what the young black boys and girls can achieve in Ireland with hard work, dedication, resilience, and, crucially, through embracing tertiary education.

    I didn't say anyone was in this instance, just that it happens in a general sense. Biko's comment wasn't specifically directed towards Boni so neither was mine.

    But, there's a huge flaw in your argument about embracing education because it puts the onus on the victims of racism to come up with the solution. If Boni, who to be honest I've never heard of so just using him as an example, with his education is experiencing racism then what else can he do?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ the dunne


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    I didn't say anyone was in this instance, just that it happens in a general sense. Biko's comment wasn't specifically directed towards Boni so neither was mine.

    But, there's a huge flaw in your argument about embracing education because it puts the onus on the victims of racism to come up with the solution. If Boni, who to be honest I've never heard of so just using him as an example, with his education is experiencing racism then what else can he do?

    Do you believe Ireland is a racist country in general? Do you think levels of racism exceed most other countries? Do you believe you can completely eradicate racism? Do you think positive discrimination is racist?


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,598 ✭✭✭✭ silverharp


    Smee_Again wrote: »

    But, there's a huge flaw in your argument about embracing education because it puts the onus on the victims of racism to come up with the solution.

    Seeing one's life through the frame of being a victim is loser think.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,036 ✭✭✭✭ Geuze


    hawley wrote: »
    People coming here as asylum seekers need to be supported in education with regard to language skills and suitable working skills. A lot of Irish people don't want to discuss this issue, but it has been shown that there is the problem with racism is worsening here.

    The vast majority of asylum-seekers are bogus, this is well known.

    Their claims should be processed quickly, within a week, and then they should be deported.

    Genuine refugees are welcome, and we have two programmes to accept refugees.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,289 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_maxx


    language is very powerful in this area , notice how those in DP are often referred to as " migrants " when they are clearly not or at least should not be

    migrants apply for visas before they travel to a country , those in DP are effectively skipping past migrants yet the media portray them as valuable assets to this country , perhaps some are but they are as i say robbing the place of those who legally followed the migrant path


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  • Registered Users Posts: 31,580 ✭✭✭✭ is_that_so


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    I didn't say anyone was in this instance, just that it happens in a general sense. Biko's comment wasn't specifically directed towards Boni so neither was mine.

    But, there's a huge flaw in your argument about embracing education because it puts the onus on the victims of racism to come up with the solution. If Boni, who to be honest I've never heard of so just using him as an example, with his education is experiencing racism then what else can he do?
    Education is a solution to a lot of things, especially opportunities for your life.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,289 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_maxx


    Geuze wrote: »
    The vast majority of asylum-seekers are bogus, this is well known.

    Their claims should be processed quickly, within a week, and then they should be deported.

    Genuine refugees are welcome, and we have two programmes to accept refugees.

    that they are bogus is probably why the media have taken to describing them as " migrants " of late , the term " asylum seeker " has negative connotations to most people now due to the bogus status of most of them so they changed their status to that of migrant


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭ Smee_Again


    the dunne wrote: »
    Do you believe Ireland is a racist country in general?
    No. Doesn't really make much difference to victims of racism in Ireland though.
    Do you think levels of racism exceed most other countries?
    No, doesn't mean the levels can't be reduced.
    Do you believe you can completely eradicate racism?
    No, doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
    Do you think positive discrimination is racist?
    Yeah, probably. I'd tend to judge instances on their own merits though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭ Smee_Again


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Education is a solution to a lot of things, especially opportunities for your life.

    Won't make others any less racist though. It might remove you from the firing line so to speak, but the racist is still a racist.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ the dunne


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    No. Doesn't really make much difference to victims of racism in Ireland though.

    No, doesn't mean the levels can't be reduced.

    No, doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

    Yeah, probably. I'd tend to judge instances on their own merits though.

    Thanks for that.

    Victims of racism are becoming more common, but I think that is because if everything is racist, everyone is a victim.

    I agree, we should always try to reduce racism, the answer isn't constantly bleating on about racism where it's not applicable.

    I think eradication of racism is absolutely impossible.

    Positive discrimination and quotas are undoubtedly actual discrimination and when it comes to racial quotas, absolutely racist.

    Judging people differently and having lower expectations of them because of the colour of their skin is the textbook definition of racism


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭ Bobblehats


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    Won't make others any less racist though. It might remove you from the firing line so to speak, but the racist is still a racist.

    But was the racist always a racist? Part of the racism industry is creating them where they didn’t previously exist, and that’s something that needs looking into too.
    Smee_Again wrote: »
    If Boni, with his education is experiencing racism then what else can he do?

    Good question. Go home and take a load off?


  • Registered Users Posts: 31,580 ✭✭✭✭ is_that_so


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    Won't make others any less racist though. It might remove you from the firing line so to speak, but the racist is still a racist.
    And that's where education comes in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,256 ✭✭✭✭ Gatling


    Must the far right invasion of Ireland recently that's causing all of this ,,,,,,


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭ Smee_Again


    the dunne wrote: »
    Thanks for that.

    Victims of racism are becoming more common, but I think that is because if everything is racist, everyone is a victim.

    I agree, we should always try to reduce racism, the answer isn't constantly bleating on about racism where it's not applicable.

    I think eradication of racism is absolutely impossible.

    Positive discrimination and quotas are undoubtedly actual discrimination and when it comes to racial quotas, absolutely racist.

    Judging people differently and having lower expectations of them because of the colour of their skin is the textbook definition of racism

    If someone thinks everything is racist then, you know what, that person is probably a racist.

    What you're seeing is victims being more confident in coming forward and sharing their experiences of racism so it just appears that everything is racist but really, its not. Unless you're a racist of course.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ the dunne


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    If someone thinks everything is racist then, you know what, that person is probably a racist.

    What you're seeing is victims being more confident in coming forward and sharing their experiences of racism so it just appears that everything is racist but really, its not. Unless you're a racist of course.

    If a person thinks their that a certain race is more superior because of their race, then they are racist.

    If a person treats people differently only because of their skin colour, they are a racist.

    If a person expects preferential treatment because of their race, then they are a racist.

    George Floyd was treated as a race issue. There was NOTHING that suggested it was.


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