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Black people Racism in Workplace in Ireland
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In the student days I used to work in a restaurant with mostly East Europeans. When a black guy started he got an awful life off this Romanian wan, she had something to say about literally everything he did so yeah I'd say it's definitely an issue. I've seen asian people being harassed on the street also. But of course we live in a society that allows scrotes live a consequence free life regardless of what colour their victims are. Is racism here as big an issue as they say? Tbh since I'm white I'm unqualified to answer the question but from what I've seen I'd say Ireland is one of the better countries in terms of social attitudes. Even in liberal Spain a black person is liable to be stared at or shouted at.
I'm also suspicious of the anti racism crowd also seem heavily focused on blacks and travellers, you never hear a peep from the Asian community for example, which I think is a little weird. I suspect the whole activism thing is a vehicle to produce an income for some people. Also in Europe we have the problem that nobody asked the population if they want multi ethnic and multi cultural societies in the first place, well except Switzerland and they said no.0 -
As someone who is South Asian, I was rather surprised to hear the levels of racism that people who are Black in Ireland face, when it was highlighted last year during the height of the BLM protests.
This drove me bananas to be honest.
However racist Ireland is or is not, equating the experience of black people here with that of the USA was absolute nonsense.0 -
Former Former Former wrote: »This drove me bananas to be honest.
However racist Ireland is or is not, equating the experience of black people here with that of the USA was absolute nonsense.
I do agree that saying we are the same as the US is nuts and I was annoyed by some people saying that.
I was still surprised at how different the experience from Black people in Ireland was from mine.0 -
Really?
What black journalists does Irish Times have?
Irish Independent?
Irish Examiner?
Rte?
Newstalk?
I actually cant think of any across those organisations.
How many black moderators does boards have? I'd be very surprised if its more than zero.
I don't want to speak for Wibbs but I read his Alien analogy as the Alien was more looking at the advertisements/pieces that were running on those media outlets rather than who was working in them.
The message rather than the messenger.0 -
It absolutely is our responsibility. If we accept people into our country, we should afford them every opportunity to excel. Instead we put many of them into Direct Provision where they stay for years, most still not allowed to work, so if they are allowed to permanently stay, their chances of gaining employment are significantly hampered.Deleted User wrote: »Which is the problem with current immigration policies that allow such people into a first world nation, who are lacking in the skills/education to be gainfully employed, or even to survive without government supplements. Their lack of success is not our responsibility, and frankly, they should move to another country, where their skills are more suited. A nation that has a strong industrial or agricultural base would be best, neither of which describes Ireland.
What other countries would you suggest these folks should have moved to?
Or maybe they moved to a country that they saw as giving them the best chance of escaping the poverty and poor conditions they were born into.Deleted User wrote: »People bear the responsibility for their own choices. In this case, the migrants choice to move to a nation that can't supply the kind of employment, and also advancement within that industry, for them to provide the basis for self-improvement.
You're completely missing the point. The problem is often that people from disadvantaged backgrounds do poor academically, so they are not suited to third level education. This goes for all people from poorer backgrounds and no grant is going to help.Deleted User wrote: »There are many grants/sponsorships, and other methods for people to avail of in other to get a third level education. Kids born in Ireland receive exactly the same benefits as native Irish people. And those who leave school, can avail of a variety of methods to complete their schooling later, or gain certification in areas which are still in demand. University is not a requirement for success... and even if it was, it's something that can be returned to at a later date.
How many Indian people do you now who arrived here claiming asylum? In my experience, they don't. They come here after being sponsored by an employer.Deleted User wrote: »They're not refugees. They're economic migrants. And most Africans/Asians see all white people as being the same, and get confused over the differences we find obvious.
Whereas I've also worked with Indians who sought to settle here. The difference is a work ethic, which most Indians seem to have in spades, expecting that hard work is necessary for success to happen. The simple truth is that migrants situations are entirely based on the individual.. those who prepared well before arriving would likely do well.. those who didn't...
And please, don't suggest there is a difference in work ethic. Many of the old time taxi drivers left the trade as the immigrants were working huge hours for low pay.Deleted User wrote: »Don't assume that people don't have their own experiences with racism. Most people have experienced it at some stage, it's just that they considered it unimportant at the time, or shrugged it off as being a momentary bad experience. Not something to get outraged over, or to assign to an entire people.
Racist incidents can be brushed off when they are rarely experienced, but if you suffer from racism on a daily basis, then you just can't and should not ignore it. In fact, you should never ignore racism. It's this tolerance which allows the ignorance to continue. That's why I have such a problem with the downplaying of racism in Ireland in this thread. It seems the majority of posters assume it can be ignored, but when you can't speak out because somehow it is your own fault for coming to Ireland when you should have gone elsewhere, or being told that you don't have a work ethic like Indian immigrants, or that you have no one to blame but yourself when you don't have the conditions to allow you to do well academically.0 -
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It absolutely is our responsibility. If we accept people into our country, we should afford them every opportunity to excel. Instead we put many of them into Direct Provision where they stay for years, most still not allowed to work, so if they are allowed to permanently stay, their chances of gaining employment are significantly hampered.
What other countries would you suggest these folks should have moved to?
Or maybe they moved to a country that they saw as giving them the best chance of escaping the poverty and poor conditions they were born into.
You're completely missing the point. The problem is often that people from disadvantaged backgrounds do poor academically, so they are not suited to third level education. This goes for all people from poorer backgrounds and no grant is going to help.
How many Indian people do you now who arrived here claiming asylum? In my experience, they don't. They come here after being sponsored by an employer.
And please, don't suggest there is a difference in work ethic. Many of the old time taxi drivers left the trade as the immigrants were working huge hours for low pay.
Racist incidents can be brushed off when they are rarely experienced, but if you suffer from racism on a daily basis, then you just can't and should not ignore it. In fact, you should never ignore racism. It's this tolerance which allows the ignorance to continue. That's why I have such a problem with the downplaying of racism in Ireland in this thread. It seems the majority of posters assume it can be ignored, but when you can't speak out because somehow it is your own fault for coming to Ireland when you should have gone elsewhere, or being told that you don't have a work ethic like Indian immigrants, or that you have no one to blame but yourself when you don't have the conditions to allow you to do well academically.
Those in DP are law breakers who attempted to skip past those who legally apply for visas0 -
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I do agree that saying we are the same as the US is nuts and I was annoyed by some people saying that.
I was still surprised at how different the experience from Black people in Ireland was from mine.
I wonder if perhaps there is a degree of stereotypes going on. Are you perhaps protected by positive stereotypes and could it play into why your experience has been different to a black person.
The other difference I noticed is that black people in Ireland/Europe are targeted by CRT activists in a way that other groups aren’t. I was listening to a man of Nigerian decent recently (can’t remember his name) and he said if you keep telling people they are victims of the system then eventually many will believe it. Now this guy was educated and very articulate and had a great career so he will definitely have a different view then someone who is struggling in Europe.0 -
It absolutely is our responsibility. If we accept people into our country, we should afford them every opportunity to excel. Instead we put many of them into Direct Provision where they stay for years, most still not allowed to work, so if they are allowed to permanently stay, their chances of gaining employment are significantly hampered.
You seem rather confused, blurring the terminology as if they're all the same. DP is for those applying for asylum. Not migrants.
As for every opportunity to excel, they do. Within reason. Ireland should not be considered a charity. Migrants have their own responsibility for the state of their lives.What other countries would you suggest these folks should have moved to?
As I said, those countries with the economy that needs low skilled workers. Germany or France would have been a good choice. But even then, first world nations are moving away from labor intensive industries, due to technology, and progress. Anyone seeking to live in a first world nation should be prepared for that. Asia would be been the best choice of all.Or maybe they moved to a country that they saw as giving them the best chance of escaping the poverty and poor conditions they were born into.
Sure, but again it's not our responsibility to provide that for them. We already have enough of that with our own native population.You're completely missing the point. The problem is often that people from disadvantaged backgrounds do poor academically, so they are not suited to third level education. This goes for all people from poorer backgrounds and no grant is going to help.
I'm not missing the point.. I simply disagree with you, and you've just shifted your argument. My previous post remains relevant to your response above.How many Indian people do you now who arrived here claiming asylum? In my experience, they don't. They come here after being sponsored by an employer.
Again, the blurring of terms. Most migrants who come to Ireland are not Asylum seekers.And please, don't suggest there is a difference in work ethic. Many of the old time taxi drivers left the trade as the immigrants were working huge hours for low pay.
You've just reinforced the point about a difference in work ethic... rather than refuting it.Racist incidents can be brushed off when they are rarely experienced, but if you suffer from racism on a daily basis, then you just can't and should not ignore it. In fact, you should never ignore racism. It's this tolerance which allows the ignorance to continue. That's why I have such a problem with the downplaying of racism in Ireland in this thread. It seems the majority of posters assume it can be ignored, but when you can't speak out because somehow it is your own fault for coming to Ireland when you should have gone elsewhere, or being told that you don't have a work ethic like Indian immigrants, or that you have no one to blame but yourself when you don't have the conditions to allow you to do well academically.
I live in a city of 9 million Chinese people, with less than 10k foreigners (of any nationality). I'm the only foreigner living in my district, and most Chinese people have never met a foreigner... I'm well aware of what casual racism is like. You can choose to get annoyed or you can get on with your life. Calling out the racism leads nowhere, because the people who express racist thoughts are either too ignorant to change, or simply aren't aware their beliefs are racist. Calling it out simply makes the situation worse.. and leads to a system of confirmation bias, because you start seeing it everywhere. But the truth is, that it's not everywhere.. quite often it is my own intentional/unintentional behavior (which is different from theirs) is what's causing the friction or reactions.
I chose to live in China. I knew that racism was common before I arrived.. and it hasn't changed while I've been here. There was a choice made. If I couldn't accept it, I would live in a western nation, which was predominately white. Basic common sense.0 -
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You don't think it's notable that in a thread making such sweeping statements regarding black people and their experiences here - that not a single poster contributing their view is black?
How do you know this?
That's incredibly racist to assume someone's ethnicity/race by their posting style.
What do black people type like in your view?
That's so warped and so racist.0 -
It does appear from the first couple of pages in this thread that a lot of people are very dismissive of the difficulties facing poorly educated immigrants, and infer that all they got to do is get educated.
There are very few people, regardless of race or colour that can afford the time or expense to go back and achieve a first class education in this country. Once you have a family, if you are in a poorly paid job, you're focus is on earning enough to live and provide food and a roof for your family.
It's a cycle when the kids born into this situations often don't have parental supervision due to work hours, and live in areas with little investment and end up struggling through school and leave education with at most a leaving cert.
Without a third level education, it is becoming increasingly difficult to live a comfortable life, as many jobs have gone to low cost economies and housing costs are sucking so much money out of peoples pockets.
It's a situation that in some ways disproportionally effects people coming from Africa as they are typical refugees - escaping very difficult situations with their family. Most white Irish see African's as all the same whether they are from Nigeria or Ghana or Zambia. They are just as different as Irish are from Polish, German or French.
It's not the same for many other immigrants to Ireland. I've worked with a lot of Indians over the past 25 years, and every one of them saw their time in Ireland as a temporary measure to earn as much as possible to send back to their families who paid for them to come to Ireland, or to save for their return.
I do believe that every country in the world has problems with racism, and absolutely, everyone needs to have an honest, open discussion, listening to people outside their own close circles and not just dismiss it because they have no experience of it.
That's ridiculous, plenty of people in Ireland work full time & study courses either at the weekend or during the evenings. Its become very common and one of the main reasons why they are carrying out additional education is because they are in relatively poorly paid jobs in the first place. This is often how you work your way up in life. If they have families they need to support as well, that's a personal decision they made themselves. Plenty of Irish people here cant even afford to have kids. But the ones that do, don't use it as an excuse not to improve themselves. I've known plenty of mothers and fathers who in addition to a full time job have gone back to successfully educate themselves.
This kind of attitude of continually making excuses for people who fail to educate, integrate & actively seek employment is one of the main reasons why many of the issues around travellers still hasnt been sorted out yet in this country. What it seems to me is that a considerable portion of the economic migrants who come here don't seem to understand that yes, there is opportunities if you work hard but you have to make an effort like we all do. It's not going to be just handed to you but it seems more and more expect just that.
The people who go on about the Irish emigrating to other countries dont realise or dont want to know that there was often zero social welfare or free education open to them in their adopted countries & that the likes of America & England were quite discriminatory against the irish at the time as well. I dont remember alot of Irish people playing the victim & making excuses for themselves in these countries, quite the opposite in fact, they often built up a great reputation as hardworking.
There is a victimhood culture & mindset around nowadays, didnt get the job, someones else's fault, didnt finish college, things were too tough for me, etc etc etc. How about the new Irish start looking at themselves if things go wrong, this is the only way to properly grow instead of complaining all the time and playing the race card.0 -
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I'm saying that if people are going to make such sweeping statements about black people and their experiences - largely white Irish people - should we not hear the experiences of actual black people in Ireland first, and their views on this - before forming our third/fourth-hand judgements?
Lol, "actual black people".
Do you honestly believe that black people are a hive mind group?
Not all black people experience the same things.
People are people.
It's so telling that your whole premise is:
"Hey black people, tell us how hard it is to be you".
Talk about bigotry of low expectations.
I have absolutely no reason to believe that black people have it harder than white people.0 -
Racist incidents can be brushed off when they are rarely experienced, but if you suffer from racism on a daily basis, then you just can't and should not ignore it. In fact, you should never ignore racism. It's this tolerance which allows the ignorance to continue. That's why I have such a problem with the downplaying of racism in Ireland in this thread. It seems the majority of posters assume it can be ignored, but when you can't speak out because somehow it is your own fault for coming to Ireland when you should have gone elsewhere, or being told that you don't have a work ethic like Indian immigrants, or that you have no one to blame but yourself when you don't have the conditions to allow you to do well academically.
Well you might have a problem with downplaying but I have a problem with up-playing.
No one is suffering from racism to quote you 'on a daily basis'. Just like no-one suffers from criminality or anti-social behaviour on a daily basis. A couple of weeks ago a couple of Romanian lads hassled me in in the town park and I had to tell them to fck off in the end which ended that. Ever since I keep an eye out for then in case they attempt to have anohter go. Now what if I said publically we've got a problem with Romanians with their anti-social behaviour? Start a coversation about it in the media? No, I don't think that's a coversation the media would entertain.0 -
Well you might have a problem with downplaying but I have a problem with up-playing.
No one is suffering from racism to quote you 'on a daily basis'. Just like no-one suffers from criminality or anti-social behaviour on a daily basis. A couple of weeks ago a couple of Romanian lads hassled me in in the town park and I had to tell them to fck off in the end which ended that. Ever since I keep an eye out for then in case they attempt to have anohter go. Now what if I said publically we've got a problem with Romanians with their anti-social behaviour? Start a coversation about it in the media? No, I don't think that's a coversation the media would entertain.
You're obviously racist against Romanians0 -
Well you might have a problem with downplaying but I have a problem with up-playing.
No one is suffering from racism to quote you 'on a daily basis'. Just like no-one suffers from criminality or anti-social behaviour on a daily basis. A couple of weeks ago a couple of Romanian lads hassled me in in the town park and I had to tell them to fck off in the end which ended that. Ever since I keep an eye out for then in case they attempt to have anohter go. Now what if I said publically we've got a problem with Romanians with their anti-social behaviour? Start a coversation about it in the media? No, I don't think that's a coversation the media would entertain.
True, if you were watching the Claire Byrne show or Nationwide this week, you'd think people with African descent were getting abused multiple times daily. I've gotten to know a number of black people over the years, worked with them, went out socializing with them & apart from the odd bit of nonsense, Ive never seen any of them receive proper racial abuse. In fact, I've often received worse abroad for being Irish especially in the UK. Of course, this doesn't mean this isn't happening but I think people are starting to see through this bull**** narrative various NGO's and the media are trying to paint, especially RTE. I suppose they have to keep their funding up somehow.
From Irish people I speak to regularly, more and more of them are getting fed up as being painted racist or living in a racist country. If anything, these ngo's, interest groups & media are driving a bigger wedge between white & black people.
Its becoming more and more evident that this may be what they intended to do all along.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »How do you know this?
That's incredibly racist to assume someone's ethnicity/race by their posting style.
What do black people type like in your view?
That's so warped and so racist.
Man that jive don't drive, this hog wanna lotta log0 -
[Deleted User] wrote: »How do you know this?
That's incredibly racist to assume someone's ethnicity/race by their posting style.
What do black people type like in your view?
That's so warped and so racist.
Shieeeh cuh ayo this whiteboy finna get dabbed on. Yessuh. Shieeeh. *dabs*0 -
If an alien were to view Ireland through those above lenses he'd understandably think that Ireland was made of about a third Black folks, many of whom seem to be in multiracial relationships.
Indeed.
As I read and write this, the advert in the browser is for Zurich insurance, and it contains black people.
Is there a name for this?
Where advertisers feel implicit pressure to include black people in marketing material in Ireland/UK, etc.?
I wonder do advertisers in the Congo feel they should put Celtic people in their adverts?0 -
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It's a situation that in some ways disproportionally effects people coming from Africa as they are typical refugees - escaping very difficult situations with their family. Most white Irish see African's as all the same whether they are from Nigeria or Ghana or Zambia.
The west Africans who came to Ireland were mainly bogus asylum-seekers, not refugees.0 -
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Well you might have a problem with downplaying but I have a problem with up-playing.
No one is suffering from racism to quote you 'on a daily basis'. Just like no-one suffers from criminality or anti-social behaviour on a daily basis. A couple of weeks ago a couple of Romanian lads hassled me in in the town park and I had to tell them to fck off in the end which ended that. Ever since I keep an eye out for then in case they attempt to have anohter go. Now what if I said publically we've got a problem with Romanians with their anti-social behaviour? Start a coversation about it in the media? No, I don't think that's a coversation the media would entertain.
How do you know they were Romanian?0 -
Well you might have a problem with downplaying but I have a problem with up-playing.
No one is suffering from racism to quote you 'on a daily basis'. Just like no-one suffers from criminality or anti-social behaviour on a daily basis. A couple of weeks ago a couple of Romanian lads hassled me in in the town park and I had to tell them to fck off in the end which ended that. Ever since I keep an eye out for then in case they attempt to have anohter go. Now what if I said publically we've got a problem with Romanians with their anti-social behaviour? Start a coversation about it in the media? No, I don't think that's a coversation the media would entertain.
That is an incredible thing to say. You do know that racism is not just about shouting racist abuse at a person?
I'll give you a real example of what I consider racist behaviour and the problem I have with it.
I work with a very decent bloke who no one would ever call or think of as racist. However, he makes comments every so often about "the jews" and how "they like money". He would say it quietly to me and I would laugh it off, but I was thinking more recently about it and that people would say as it is not causing anyone any harm, as he only said it quietly to me, a non-Jew.
However, this is a racist comment - a negative sterotype against a group of people because of their religion and associates everyone of that religion with that negative stereotype. This type of behaviour can expand to others and become an accepted way of thinking. Just look at other parts of the world that have become more racist in recent times.
It's the same against black people - I've often said that most people react differently, even subconsciously to black people than they do to white.0 -
That is an incredible thing to say. You do know that racism is not just about shouting racist abuse at a person?
I'll give you a real example of what I consider racist behaviour and the problem I have with it.
I work with a very decent bloke who no one would ever call or think of as racist. However, he makes comments every so often about "the jews" and how "they like money". He would say it quietly to me and I would laugh it off, but I was thinking more recently about it and that people would say as it is not causing anyone any harm, as he only said it quietly to me, a non-Jew.
However, this is a racist comment - a negative sterotype against a group of people because of their religion and associates everyone of that religion with that negative stereotype. This type of behaviour can expand to others and become an accepted way of thinking. Just look at other parts of the world that have become more racist in recent times.
It's the same against black people - I've often said that most people react differently, even subconsciously to black people than they do to white.
I don't understand, you think this man quietly sharing his ignorant stereotypical view that Jews are good with/like money equates to people suffering from Racism everyday at the hands of the Irish ? He didnt even go up to Jewish people and say "Here youse lot are only after our money !" He said it quietly to you a non jewish person. Not great but he's not exactly Goebbels is he ?
Are you aware other countries think we are all drunks. When I was on holidays in Slovakia a few years ago. My friends and I ordered our food and a round of beers, we were asked by the waiter at a restaurant to please not drink too much, it was our first night there before you say anything. Am I a member of a subjugated race ? Lets have some perspective here.0 -
RulesOfNature wrote: »Shieeeh cuh ayo this whiteboy finna get dabbed on. Yessuh. Shieeeh. *dabs*
u gotta popa cap in dat crackers ass man0 -
All that anecdote about the guy talking about Jews does is show how little a problem racism is in Ireland. Like for that to be your go to story.0
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Well, it really would help if you actually understood how people get jobs in journalism there first. Ability and experience are the first prerequisite. They largely start off in the regionals and work their way up. To get into those regionals there need to be journalism courses that will attract such people and I guess that's not happening. The only other way to get into them via starter positions is through company diversity policies. RTE have a couple of good presenters BTW and Boards is a secret society, where nobody knows how they appoint mods!Really?
What black journalists does Irish Times have?
Irish Independent?
Irish Examiner?
Rte?
Newstalk?
I actually cant think of any across those organisations.
How many black moderators does boards have? I'd be very surprised if its more than zero.
That said, some of the niche forums seem to be supervised by people who do know their subject, which brings us all the way back to ability and knowledge/education.0 -
How do you know they were Romanian?
Because some days after the incident I spotted one of the 2 guys with a group of gypsy Romanians from my apt window as they attended the Polish shop opposite. They often hang around outside the store there so I see them regulary. I took a snap of him while I was at it just in case I need it. This isn't a big town I live in, once you know someone you'll likely bumb into them again.0 -
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Because some days after the incident I spotted one of the 2 guys with a group of gypsy Romanians from my apt window as they attended the Polish shop opposite. They often hang around outside the store there so I see them regulary. I took a snap of him while I was at it just in case I need it. This isn't a big town I live in, once you know someone you'll likely bumb into them again.
How do you know the gypsy group was Romanian?0
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