Black people Racism in Workplace in Ireland

biko · 27-05-2021 9:06am

Tbh, the second generation would land great jobs back in Nigeria/Uganda/Saudi/Pakistan with an Irish education, but they are kinda trapped.
They don't like it here and they won't move where there is no racism against them.

Oddly I have never heard any SE Asians except for Hazel claim racism exists in Ireland, and I do know and work with some. Not that I have asked.

is_that_so · 27-05-2021 9:18am

Strumms wrote: »

I am the same, never experienced racism, saw it or encountered it in any workplace I’ve been in....

Most people would have that experience and workplaces have enough policies and procedures to ensure that it doesn't happen. It can really be problematic when people set out to fix a problem which probably doesn't exist and it only really benefits training companies who claim to have solutions.

27-05-2021 9:30am

mohawk wrote: »

In college I lived with a Chinese girl. We genuinely couldn’t get her name spot on. She told us that the sounds used in her name are not used in English so we were probably never going to get it right and to use a shortened version of the name. Still friends over a decade later.

Many non native English speakers will struggle with certain names popular in Ireland and many of us will struggle with names we aren’t familiar with. It’s just the way it is.

It seems less common now but 15 years or so ago a lot of the Chinese students at the local college would pick an "English" name that they'd go by while here. Hilariously (I hope it's not racist that I find it funny :pac: ) they often chose stripper names like Crystal and Destiny. :pac:
I like that they made that effort and I also like that more of them seem to be happy to keep their proper name these days. I worked with a few Chinese people in my last job and other than single-syllable names with no R in the middle they didn't get any of ours "right", I'm sure we didn't get theirs "right" either.

biko wrote: »

Oddly I have never heard any SE Asians except for Hazel claim racism exists in Ireland, and I do know and work with some. Not that I have asked.

I'd imagine the lads in the Chinese takeaway I was in one time in Drogheda 10 years ago would claim racism exists in Ireland. Then again it's Drogheda. :pac:

27-05-2021 9:44am

biko wrote: »

Tbh, the second generation would land great jobs back in Nigeria/Uganda/Saudi/Pakistan with an Irish education, but they are kinda trapped.
They don't like it here and they won't move where there is no racism against them.

Except there is often racism in their own countries. First off because they grew up in the west, and are considered different... but more importantly, the aspect of castes or tribes. Africans are incredibly racist towards each other, based along tribal lines. Its the same for Asians who grow up abroad. Chinese Americans who return to mainland China are treated differently than either the Chinese themselves or westerners, regardless of whether they can speak Chinese fluently.

Racism exists in spades in non-western countries. Western culture has sought to remove the constraints of social classes, and bring different nationalities closer... other cultures haven't, and in many ways, have put serious effort in retaining the distinctions between people.

Oddly I have never heard any SE Asians except for Hazel claim racism exists in Ireland, and I do know and work with some. Not that I have asked.

The difference is that they don't expect any change to happen. It's a degree of fatalism, and being realistic, recognising that individual behavior doesn't represent the whole. At the same time, I've known many Chinese people who returned to China with tales of rampant racism being directed at them while studying/living abroad, especially for those who went to the US. Far less of that in Europe.

All the same, even with the racism experienced, most Asians I know (who have lived in the West) consider the west to be far fairer than the rest of the world... They understand that racism is alive and well in most countries. At least, western nations try to minimize the effects of it in society.

27-05-2021 9:52am

KyussB wrote: »

Out of curiosity, is there even one black person commenting on this thread?

How many would you like?

Tombo2001 · 27-05-2021 9:53am

Pain in the hole the way Boards and in particular this forum has been hijacked by a cohort of presumably white Irish males who believe:

Black people have nothing to gripe about and are bringing their problems on themselves

Travellers have nothing to gripe about and are bringing their problems on themselves

Women in the workplace have nothing to gripe about and are bringing their problems on themselves.

Have ye nothing better to do?

Its the same thing over and over and over.

Echo chamber.

27-05-2021 9:54am

mohawk wrote: »

In college I lived with a Chinese girl. We genuinely couldn’t get her name spot on. She told us that the sounds used in her name are not used in English so we were probably never going to get it right and to use a shortened version of the name. Still friends over a decade later.

Even after a decade in China, and being fairly good at speaking Chinese, I butcher names. Oh, some of them are obvious in their sounds, and easily replicated, but a lot more have very odd sounds, making them difficult to remember. So, while I might stumble over the pronunciation, with their help, I'll eventually get close to it, but then a day later, I'm back to butchering the name.

With my ex (Chinese), I ended up using her English name all the time, since even after three years of trying to use the Chinese name, I couldn't grasp the pronunciation properly.

Then again, I have an old Irish name, which most Chinese people can't pronounce easily.. so there's a two-way forgiveness and tolerance about the whole thing. (TBH I'm not entirely sure how my own name is pronounced, since I've had Irish people give me a wide variety of pronunciation for it. Even my parents pronounce the name slightly different)

27-05-2021 9:59am

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Pain in the hole the way Boards and in particular this forum has been hijacked by a cohort of presumably white Irish males who believe:

Black people have nothing to gripe about and are bringing their problems on themselves

Travellers have nothing to gripe about and are bringing their problems on themselves

Women in the workplace have nothing to gripe about and are bringing their problems on themselves.

Have ye nothing better to do?

Its the same thing over and over and over.

Echo chamber.

Lol.

Says presumably white males and then gives out about generalisations and presumptions

27-05-2021 10:03am

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Pain in the hole the way Boards and in particular this forum has been hijacked by a cohort of presumably white Irish males who believe:

Whereas it's a pain in the hole, this assigning of importance to being a white male, as if that has some particular relevance to how our opinions are formed. This blatant sexism towards men is annoying.. and yes, it is sexist. Racist too.

Black people have nothing to gripe about and are bringing their problems on themselves

I don't think most people believe that. Racism will exist, and some people will experience it firsthand. However, people also experience negative reactions or face problems for other reasons... There's a tendency to claim racism against problems that could easily be caused by non-race specific behavior.

Travellers have nothing to gripe about and are bringing their problems on themselves

Women in the workplace have nothing to gripe about and are bringing their problems on themselves.

Irrelevant to the thread, and absolute rubbish anyway. Who made such claims before you posted this?

Have ye nothing better to do?

Its the same thing over and over and over.

Echo chamber.

Actually, I suspect that's what you want.. an echo chamber that matches your own opinions. It must really annoy you that people are finally starting to leave this PC culture, and woke nonsense behind, and start questioning/criticisng again. A return to common sense. Oh poor you.

kildare lad · 27-05-2021 10:25am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It seems less common now but 15 years or so ago a lot of the Chinese students at the local college would pick an "English" name that they'd go by while here. Hilariously (I hope it's not racist that I find it funny :pac: ) they often chose stripper names like Crystal and Destiny. :pac:
I like that they made that effort and I also like that more of them seem to be happy to keep their proper name these days. I worked with a few Chinese people in my last job and other than single-syllable names with no R in the middle they didn't get any of ours "right", I'm sure we didn't get theirs "right" either.

I'd imagine the lads in the Chinese takeaway I was in one time in Drogheda 10 years ago would claim racism exists in Ireland. Then again it's Drogheda. :pac:

I remember in the local garage about ten years ago there was a Chinese bloke and his name tag said Rommel .

TomSweeney · 27-05-2021 10:33am

randd1 wrote: »

Was watching a video of Thomas Sowell recently where he made the point that anywhere in the world where black communities, usually led by religious leaders, embraced education and the nuclear family as the norm, there was virtually no difference in their ability to find work or educational achievements than there are with whites and other races, and they were much less likely to suffer racism, or be bothered by it.

Basically his point was that having a family unit, education and a good community spirit in place and you'll have a strong, prosperous and peaceful society, regardless of the skin colour of its inhabitants.

I'd be of the opinion that giving free education to immigrants would probably be far better for us as a society in the long run. And if they don't avail of it, then that's on them as will be the consequences.

Thomas Sowel sounds like a white supremacist.

randd1 · 27-05-2021 10:53am

TomSweeney wrote: »

Thomas Sowel sounds like a white supremacist.

He's not.

He's an exceptionally well educated and hugely successful black man from Harlem who's main guiding philosophy is that there's no real difference in the races.

WrenBoy · 27-05-2021 10:54am

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Pain in the hole the way Boards and in particular this forum has been hijacked by a cohort of presumably white Irish males who believe:

Black people have nothing to gripe about and are bringing their problems on themselves

Travellers have nothing to gripe about and are bringing their problems on themselves

Women in the workplace have nothing to gripe about and are bringing their problems on themselves.

Have ye nothing better to do?

Its the same thing over and over and over.

Echo chamber.

I know, why wont white men just accept they are the cause of all the worlds ills quietly !?

27-05-2021 10:58am

biko wrote: »

Tbh, the second generation would land great jobs back in Nigeria/Uganda/Saudi/Pakistan with an Irish education, but they are kinda trapped.
They don't like it here and they won't move where there is no racism against them.

Oddly I have never heard any SE Asians except for Hazel claim racism exists in Ireland, and I do know and work with some. Not that I have asked.

They probably seen your posts on here

TheRef · 27-05-2021 11:05am

randd1 wrote: »

Was watching a video of Thomas Sowell recently where he made the point that anywhere in the world where black communities, usually led by religious leaders, embraced education and the nuclear family as the norm, there was virtually no difference in their ability to find work or educational achievements than there are with whites and other races, and they were much less likely to suffer racism, or be bothered by it.

Basically his point was that having a family unit, education and a good community spirit in place and you'll have a strong, prosperous and peaceful society, regardless of the skin colour of its inhabitants.

I'd be of the opinion that giving free education to immigrants would probably be far better for us as a society in the long run. And if they don't avail of it, then that's on them as will be the consequences.

It does appear from the first couple of pages in this thread that a lot of people are very dismissive of the difficulties facing poorly educated immigrants, and infer that all they got to do is get educated.
There are very few people, regardless of race or colour that can afford the time or expense to go back and achieve a first class education in this country. Once you have a family, if you are in a poorly paid job, you're focus is on earning enough to live and provide food and a roof for your family.

It's a cycle when the kids born into this situations often don't have parental supervision due to work hours, and live in areas with little investment and end up struggling through school and leave education with at most a leaving cert.
Without a third level education, it is becoming increasingly difficult to live a comfortable life, as many jobs have gone to low cost economies and housing costs are sucking so much money out of peoples pockets.

It's a situation that in some ways disproportionally effects people coming from Africa as they are typical refugees - escaping very difficult situations with their family. Most white Irish see African's as all the same whether they are from Nigeria or Ghana or Zambia. They are just as different as Irish are from Polish, German or French.
It's not the same for many other immigrants to Ireland. I've worked with a lot of Indians over the past 25 years, and every one of them saw their time in Ireland as a temporary measure to earn as much as possible to send back to their families who paid for them to come to Ireland, or to save for their return.

I do believe that every country in the world has problems with racism, and absolutely, everyone needs to have an honest, open discussion, listening to people outside their own close circles and not just dismiss it because they have no experience of it.

27-05-2021 11:21am

Combatting nebulous racism is a low effort way to become a hero in your own head and a cheap way to gain the appearance of moral superiority... actual racists are few, but phoney, bargain bucket MLKs, deluded Quixotes, and opportunistic Walter Mittys are ten a penny in the country.

We need to snap out of the habit of importing the US-style of thinking about race. Identity politics is the politics of segregation. And as others have pointed out, Ireland is a different country with its own history of 'race relations' that is nothing like that of the U.S.

Wibbs · 27-05-2021 11:24am

TheRef wrote: »

It's a situation that in some ways disproportionally effects people coming from Africa as they are typical refugees - escaping very difficult situations with their family.

Citation needed. According to our own government departments who these days reject well over 90% of claimants from Sub Saharan Africa(and Georgia and Ukraine, who are White last time I looked) as economic migrants, not fleeing anything. Yet those who came here in the late 90's early 00's when the majority of migration was in play were magically different? Back then the Nigerian embassy even came out publicly objecting to the "Nigerians fleeing oppression" narrative that was being peddled by the migrants, the media and Irish NGO's. As for with their families, even the briefest glance at the boats coming across the Mediterranean would demonstrate a notable minority of women and kids. The vast majority of migrants on that route are young men.

You note and correctly that Africa is a continent of many cultures and different ones with it, even within African nations the diversity of cultures can be way higher than anything in a European country and yep, just seeing "Black" or "African" is woefully simplistic and prejudicial. However you're just as prey to generalisations as you've described Africans as a bloc of refugees fleeing very difficult situations no matter where they're from in Africa, or no matter what many of the realities are.

KyussB · 27-05-2021 11:30am

Deleted User wrote: »

How many would you like?

You don't think it's notable that in a thread making such sweeping statements regarding black people and their experiences here - that not a single poster contributing their view is black?

WrenBoy · 27-05-2021 11:32am

KyussB wrote: »

You don't think it's notable that in a thread making such sweeping statements regarding black people and their experiences here - that not a single poster contributing their view is black?

You say that like black people have been barred from engaging with this message board ? What can be done if none are available or wish not to contribute ?

27-05-2021 11:33am

DubInMeath wrote: »

They probably seen your posts on here

Which means what?

KyussB · 27-05-2021 11:35am

WrenBoy wrote: »

You say that like black people have been barred from engaging with this message board ? What can be done if none are available or wish not to contribute ?

I'm saying that if people are going to make such sweeping statements about black people and their experiences - largely white Irish people - should we not hear the experiences of actual black people in Ireland first, and their views on this - before forming our third/fourth-hand judgements?

Wibbs · 27-05-2021 11:35am

MeepMeep2021 wrote: »

We need to snap out of the habit of importing the US-style of thinking about race. Identity politics is the politics of segregation. And as others have pointed out, Ireland is a different country with its own history of 'race relations' that is nothing like that of the U.S.

True, but just like the US there is attention, cash and careers to be made from it for some and just like the US our media is just as quick to promote it, for their own attention, cash and careers. Identity politics whether it be around race, creed, colour, sexuality or gender(the old standby class has dropped off the radar of late) is one of the mainstream philosophies and politics of today and again a US import. Even in Ireland with only two decades of multiculturalism under her belt it's already dug in as a narrative. It's not going away any time soon. Sadly.

Though even within this multiculturalism, the vast majority of non Irish natives in this country are other White Europeans. There are nearly six times more Polish people alone than African people living in Ireland, never mind Germans, French, Spanish, Romanians, Latvians etc Again the overwhelming majority of whom are pale of face. Not that you'd notice this as they're almost completely invisible in the media, NGO missives and identity politics, even advertising. If an alien were to view Ireland through those above lenses he'd understandably think that Ireland was made of about a third Black folks, many of whom seem to be in multiracial relationships.

They're also missing on the right wing nutters on Arsebook and Twatter too. The one thing both the Left and the Right has in common is a near fetishistic obsession with "race" and skin colour.

27-05-2021 11:40am

Wibbs wrote: »

The one thing both the Left and the Right has in common is a near fetishistic obsession with "race" and skin colour.

Couldn't agree more. And the further to the fringes you go on either side, the greater the emphasis on race as the determining factor par excellence, regardless of character and all the other qualities that make up a human being. Then again, being on the fringes in such a way is a sign of half-wittedness, so maybe it makes sense that this is where the real racists are found.

WrenBoy · 27-05-2021 11:42am

KyussB wrote: »

I'm saying that if people are going to make such sweeping statements about black people and their experiences - largely white Irish people - should we not hear the experiences of actual black people in Ireland first, and their views on this - before forming our third/fourth-hand judgements?

Rather than judgements, I would say more opinions and thoughts.
That would be helpful yes, but no one who wishes to identify themselves as a black person has offered any input.
If we don't get a black persons input, we cant have the conversation ? How bizarre, is there any conversations black people cant have without a white person involved in it ?

Tombo2001 · 27-05-2021 11:47am

Wibbs wrote: »

True, but just like the US there is attention, cash and careers to be made from it for some and just like the US our media is just as quick to promote it, for their own attention, cash and careers. Identity politics whether it be around race, creed, colour, sexuality or gender(the old standby class has dropped off the radar of late) is one of the mainstream philosophies and politics of today and again a US import. Even in Ireland with only two decades of multiculturalism under her belt it's already dug in as a narrative. It's not going away any time soon. Sadly.

Though even within this multiculturalism, the vast majority of non Irish natives in this country are other White Europeans. There are nearly six times more Polish people alone than African people living in Ireland, never mind Germans, French, Spanish, Romanians, Latvians etc Again the overwhelming majority of whom are pale of face. Not that you'd notice this as they're almost completely invisible in the media, NGO missives and identity politics, even advertising. If an alien were to view Ireland through those above lenses he'd understandably think that Ireland was made of about a third Black folks, many of whom seem to be in multiracial relationships.

They're also missing on the right wing nutters on Arsebook and Twatter too. The one thing both the Left and the Right has in common is a near fetishistic obsession with "race" and skin colour.

Really?

What black journalists does Irish Times have?

Irish Independent?

Irish Examiner?

Rte?

Newstalk?

I actually cant think of any across those organisations.

How many black moderators does boards have? I'd be very surprised if its more than zero.

27-05-2021 11:48am

TheRef wrote: »

It does appear from the first couple of pages in this thread that a lot of people are very dismissive of the difficulties facing poorly educated immigrants, and infer that all they got to do is get educated.
There are very few people, regardless of race or colour that can afford the time or expense to go back and achieve a first class education in this country. Once you have a family, if you are in a poorly paid job, you're focus is on earning enough to live and provide food and a roof for your family.

Which is the problem with current immigration policies that allow such people into a first world nation, who are lacking in the skills/education to be gainfully employed, or even to survive without government supplements. Their lack of success is not our responsibility, and frankly, they should move to another country, where their skills are more suited. A nation that has a strong industrial or agricultural base would be best, neither of which describes Ireland.

People bear the responsibility for their own choices. In this case, the migrants choice to move to a nation that can't supply the kind of employment, and also advancement within that industry, for them to provide the basis for self-improvement.

It's a cycle when the kids born into this situations often don't have parental supervision due to work hours, and live in areas with little investment and end up struggling through school and leave education with at most a leaving cert.
Without a third level education, it is becoming increasingly difficult to live a comfortable life, as many jobs have gone to low cost economies and housing costs are sucking so much money out of peoples pockets.

There are many grants/sponsorships, and other methods for people to avail of in other to get a third level education. Kids born in Ireland receive exactly the same benefits as native Irish people. And those who leave school, can avail of a variety of methods to complete their schooling later, or gain certification in areas which are still in demand. University is not a requirement for success... and even if it was, it's something that can be returned to at a later date.

It's a situation that in some ways disproportionally effects people coming from Africa as they are typical refugees - escaping very difficult situations with their family. Most white Irish see African's as all the same whether they are from Nigeria or Ghana or Zambia. They are just as different as Irish are from Polish, German or French.

They're not refugees. They're economic migrants. And most Africans/Asians see all white people as being the same, and get confused over the differences we find obvious.

It's not the same for many other immigrants to Ireland. I've worked with a lot of Indians over the past 25 years, and every one of them saw their time in Ireland as a temporary measure to earn as much as possible to send back to their families who paid for them to come to Ireland, or to save for their return.

Whereas I've also worked with Indians who sought to settle here. The difference is a work ethic, which most Indians seem to have in spades, expecting that hard work is necessary for success to happen. The simple truth is that migrants situations are entirely based on the individual.. those who prepared well before arriving would likely do well.. those who didn't...

I do believe that every country in the world has problems with racism, and absolutely, everyone needs to have an honest, open discussion, listening to people outside their own close circles and not just dismiss it because they have no experience of it.

Don't assume that people don't have their own experiences with racism. Most people have experienced it at some stage, it's just that they considered it unimportant at the time, or shrugged it off as being a momentary bad experience. Not something to get outraged over, or to assign to an entire people.

27-05-2021 11:51am

KyussB wrote: »

You don't think it's notable that in a thread making such sweeping statements regarding black people and their experiences here - that not a single poster contributing their view is black?

First off, Ireland is a predominately white nation.. so it stands to reason that there would be an extreme shortage of Black peoples contributions on boards, especially considering that boards isn't terribly popular for Irish people in general.

Secondly, you've got nothing to base that assumption on. Posters identities are anonymous.

PokeHerKing · 27-05-2021 11:52am

There's no institutional racism in Ireland. Unlike USA or GB black people were not brought here by force. They chose to come. Regardless of their home countries situation they still made the choice to leave. I don't blame them.

But don't blame the country you came to for your shortcomings and don't expect some sort of leg up over the other people on the island. Everyone regardless of skin colour has to put food on the table. And believe it or not if you rock up to a country barely able to speak the native tongue with zero education you're going to struggle and that's nothing to do with your skin colour.

Every country will have scum who use racists slurs to make themselves feel better but again do we really need to highlight or discuss this??

wes · 27-05-2021 11:57am

As someone who is South Asian, I was rather surprised to hear the levels of racism that people who are Black in Ireland face, when it was highlighted last year during the height of the BLM protests. The experience they have is really rather different than what I and my family would have experienced. Now I suppose this is the result of being relatively light skinned (people in my family are often mistaken for being Spanish, Italian, Romanian etc). It is some what amusing (to me at least) to have people being racist to you, when they think you are Romanian. Just to add when mistaken for Italian or Spanish, these are honest mistakes from people, so no big deal, but every time someone has mistaken someone in my family for Romanian it has been in a racist incident (just people shouting abuse or other such nonsense), which would lead to me to believe that their is a negative view of Romanians in this country.

It certainly seem to me, that Black people in Ireland face far more racism that other minority groups.

c.p.w.g.w · 27-05-2021 12:01pm

Worked in retail for many years, and i had been called a racist many times...Because i treated assholes the same, no matter what colour their skin was...

Lads shouting on the phone(almost screaming), can you lower the voice or take the call outside please...Most times they would comply, but there was a couple of times, i was called a racist because ???

Majority of my interactions were no different between white folks and non white folks...

But the the negative ones where different in how they reacted...

Typically the negative reactions from white folks, was towards aggression, like squaring up and threatening language...

Typically the negative reactions from non white folks, was very quickly to calling me a racist...which was certainly worse, as i can handle myself in a physical altercation, but when you are being called a racist, there isn't much a middle class white boy can do the de-escalate that situation

Black people Racism in Workplace in Ireland

Comments