Schools closed until February? (part 3)

History Queen

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Interesting that Claire Byrne mentioned the rumours that Norma Foley argued at the cabinet today that schools couldn't be kept fully open.

Hadn't heard that.

Anyone got any tweets where this was said?

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1318281147617521666?s=19

Dickie10

most likely schools wont be back for at least 2 extra weeks after halloween

Jucifer

blanch152 wrote: »

Wow, just wow, look at the entitlement culture from the INTO - see piece in bold.

They want more than people working in meat factories get, more than people working in hospitals get, more than people working in care homes, direct provision centres, prisons get etc. and all of those people are in much more dangerous situations than teachers.

People in the high-risk category are out there in the health service putting their lives at risk every day to save teachers and their families and everyone else, yet the teachers want special measures for themselves.

Some In healthcare might be in high risk categories in health service but many were initially signed off by doctors and then allowed work but moved away from frontline patient care. I am personally aware of two cases where this occurred with Nurses. Not due to pregnancy mind, related to being on immunosuppressant medication. I assume the same would apply for teachers though if the risk was that high.

irishblessing

History Queen wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1318281147617521666?s=19

According to M.Martin there's been positive feedback about the schools (he keeps saying that) and he basically denies she was concerned about it. He said "you have to be careful" about where you get info about cabinet meetings.

History Queen

Norma Foley has just released a statement. Have to say I find parts of it very disingenuous.

https://twitter.com/Education_Ire/status/1318300028348366850?s=19

Jucifer

I have to say the 1.7% positivity rate is good to hear. I wasn’t aware of those stats. I just hope they don’t use it as a reason to reduce testing in schools further, as it seems anecdotally from the stories on the thread. The main fear is that it would be spreading through a classroom undetected as almost everyone has people in their family bubbles that are high risk.

Grandeeod

Colm O'Rourke the fooking hero on RTE re Schools and popping against teachers unions. He also agrees with GAA players swapping spit on a pitch. I feel sorry for the school he's in charge of.

irishblessing

History Queen wrote: »

Norma Foley has just released a statement. Have to say I find parts of it very disingenuous.

https://twitter.com/Education_Ire/status/1318300028348366850?s=19

Is this not a complete lie:

"Public Health has confirmed that they are casting their net wide with mass testing in schools to assess evidence of levels of transmission and that this low rate supports other evidence that schools are safe environment for staff and students"

What mass testing? Where the f-k is the acknowledgment that the hse is not always in contact with the schools, and the lack of identifying close contacts and therefore testing?

Let's see what the unions say.

meeeeh

irishblessing wrote: »

Is this not a complete lie:

"Public Health has confirmed that they are casting their net wide with mass testing in schools to assess evidence of levels of transmission and that this low rate supports other evidence that schools are safe environment for staff and students"

What mass testing? Where the f-k is the acknowledgment that the hse is not always in contact with the schools, and the lack of identifying close contacts and therefore testing?

Let's see what the unions say.

Well 1.7% positivity rate would indicate mass testing, considering higher rate in general. Ireland is actually doing a lot of testing. The problem is turn around of results.

wirelessdude01

irishblessing wrote: »

According to M.Martin there's been positive feedback about the schools (he keeps saying that) and he basically denies she was concerned about it. He said "you have to be careful" about where you get info about cabinet meetings.

Well there appears to be an open live link to that cabinet meeting today such was the level and detail of information flowing from it.

TheValeyard

Jucifer wrote: »

I have to say the 1.7% positivity rate is good to hear. I wasn’t aware of those stats. I just hope they don’t use it as a reason to reduce testing in schools further, as it seems anecdotally from the stories on the thread. The main fear is that it would be spreading through a classroom undetected as almost everyone has people in their family bubbles that are high risk.

Yeah one of our sister schools has a dozen students testing positive and three staff out with Covid. School was not informed by HSE in regards to all of the students infected, nor was there any mass testing of tutor groups students were in. Rest of staff were not deemed close contacts. I find the whole rationale confusing and worrying.

Queried

meeeeh wrote: »

Well 1.7% positivity rate would indicate mass testing, considering higher rate in general. Ireland is actually doing a lot of testing. The problem is turn around of results.

We are doing a lot of testing in Ireland, yes. Just not in schools, where people who would be considered a close contact if they were linked to a positive case in any other setting.

blanch152

The_Brood wrote: »

The "schools are not causing this" at this point is one of the biggest political lies told in world history, nevermind Ireland. I honestly struggle to come up with anything that is a bigger lie. North Korea propaganda is barely matching this.

I thought this thread would be in meltdown following the announcement but this exceeds my expectations.

blanch152

TheValeyard wrote: »

Yeah one of our sister schools has a dozen students testing positive and three staff out with Covid. School was not informed by HSE in regards to all of the students infected, nor was there any mass testing of tutor groups students were in. Rest of staff were not deemed close contacts. I find the whole rationale confusing and worrying.

Staff are supposed not to mix, to socially distance at break times etc. If three staff from a school test positive from mixing with each other, that is on the staff not following the guidelines.

blanch152

Jucifer wrote: »

Some In healthcare might be in high risk categories in health service but many were initially signed off by doctors and then allowed work but moved away from frontline patient care. I am personally aware of two cases where this occurred with Nurses. Not due to pregnancy mind, related to being on immunosuppressant medication. I assume the same would apply for teachers though if the risk was that high.

It does apply for teachers if the risk is that high. In fact, the teacher unions negotiated an appeals mechanism for COVID classification that is not available to other public servants.

However, the problem is that the teacher unions believe that anyone on any medication or who is over 50 shouldn’t have to teach at all.

Smacruairi

blanch152 wrote: »

Staff are supposed not to mix, to socially distance at break times etc. If three staff from a school test positive from mixing with each other, that is on the staff not following the guidelines.

So the same kid couldn't go to English Irish and maths and infect diff teachers. That's impossible is it?

blanch152

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Interesting that Claire Byrne mentioned the rumours that Norma Foley argued at the cabinet today that schools couldn't be kept fully open.

Hadn't heard that.

Anyone got any tweets where this was said?

I enjoyed Colm O’Rourke calling out the stupidity of the ASTI until Claire got embarrassed and shut him up to follow the RTÉ line of unions always being right.

JP100

blanch152 wrote: »

I thought this thread would be in meltdown following the announcement but this exceeds my expectations.

Don't feed, folks!

blanch152

Smacruairi wrote: »

So the same kid couldn't go to English Irish and maths and infect diff teachers. That's impossible is it?

That would a first for the epidemiology of COVID - a child infecting three adults. That is unheard of, I hope you have scientists in looking at this new development.

irishblessing

meeeeh wrote: »

Well 1.7% positivity rate would indicate mass testing, considering higher rate in general. Ireland is actually doing a lot of testing. The problem is turn around of results.

No it doesn't, and your constant nonsensical defence of the government in light of our children, school staff, our families and community constantly being gaslight and unsafe as a result is baffling to me.

irishblessing

blanch152 wrote: »

Staff are supposed not to mix, to socially distance at break times etc. If three staff from a school test positive from mixing with each other, that is on the staff not following the guidelines.

Community transmission is so high that we're going to level 5. it's being brought into schools also. Hello??

irishblessing

blanch152 wrote: »

That would a first for the epidemiology of COVID - a child infecting three adults. That is unheard of, I hope you have scientists in looking at this new development.

Or is it "unheard of" because of a lack of testing and tracing? Doh!

Icyseanfitz

blanch152 wrote: »

That would a first for the epidemiology of COVID - a child infecting three adults. That is unheard of, I hope you have scientists in looking at this new development.

When has it ever been proven a child aged 4-18 cannot infect adults proof please

wirelessdude01

blanch152 wrote: »

That would a first for the epidemiology of COVID - a child infecting three adults. That is unheard of, I hope you have scientists in looking at this new development.

You do know that the science says that 10+ are like adults when it comes to this crisis.

blanch152

irishblessing wrote: »

Or is it "unheard of" because of a lack of testing and tracing? Doh!

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

When has it ever been proven a child aged 4-18 cannot infect adults proof please

There are no documented examples of a school pupil infecting three different teachers in three different classes where social distancing protocols have been followed.

It is impossible to prove a negative, but if you can produce a case that shows the above, well and good, but I expect to be waiting.

blanch152

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

You do know that the science says that 10+ are like adults when it comes to this crisis.

Eh, no, it doesn’t. There is no evid3nce around transmission, there is limited evidence around infection rates.

Glenbhoy

scouserstation wrote: »

But your not going to spend more than 15 minutes in close proximity to every student in the class, do they want every single person in the room tested for just 1 positive case? There just isn't the resources for this, for the most part testing and tracing is better served in the community, medical and nursing home settings where the bulk of cases are falling ill with covid, how many teachers or school kids do you reckon have ended up in hospital because of this?

If we were serious about contact tracing then of course everyone in the room should be tested. I'm sure you're aware of the tight classrooms which are the norm in Irish schools and the studies from China early in the pandemic showing the transmission amongst diners in a restaurant or the Korean office experience. When you refer to the medical and nursing home settings and how they deserve the resources, you ignore the potential for widespread community transmission resulting from unchecked and unknowing asymptomatic school kids and teachers. That's the problem, and that's why we are jeopardising the success or otherwise of this lockdown by not closing schools for at least some of it. If we're going to ask retail businesses to close en-masse for 6 weeks of their busiest quarter, is it worth taking the risk that it'll be in vain???

TTLF

Well, we’ve now officially seen what the government are planning to do, mainly with regards to level 5 and schools remaining open. I’m not sure what this means for me, because level 5 in the grand scheme of things for a teenager currently, actually restricts us of very very little. As long as schools still open, I can still hang out with my friends at a park, or something similar like go on a hike.

I would just like to make a few notes relating to how I feel the reaction from people are, my own thoughts and the governments response to the crisis.

The government
I would first like to applaud the government for making such a rash and difficult decision to lock down Ireland, that’s not an easy decision to make, and it must’ve been quite a scare to realise we needed to go to level 5. However I really don’t see this being a level 5 in any way. This makes me feel they went for a level 4 approach with 1 or 2 elements of 5 mixed in. (Mainly the 5km rule) because, from a student or teachers perspective, our lives haven’t changed much since we’re in and out of school still. I have seen Norma Foleys reaction in which she isn’t confident school will remain open too long, mixed in with the interesting read from the government level 5 schools plan which made me question if it was possibly rushed or not and written in an afternoon.

The general public
I understand a lot of people’s upset when it comes to schools remaining open, I’m not a parent, but it must be frightening to know that, the government has decided that it is not safe for you to go to your work place, but it’s perfectly safe for your kids to go into school, or if you are a teacher, it’s your responsibility to put your own health on the line to teach your students. That must honestly be terrifying, I wouldn’t want that. I already expressed how I felt in my last post where, as a pupil with an underlying health condition, I need to think harder about my own safety, but I can’t just stop attending school because I am in my Leaving Cert year. People have been discussing back and forth some of the main issues, like how schools are treated differently, what measures are lacking, and how students may be pulled out of school because of level 5 restrictions by parents. (Mainly seen from Twitter.) I hope you all find yourself well and not living in too much stress or anxiety over the recent coming level 5 restrictions

Personal opinion
So.. level 5. What does this mean for me? Well, my hands are still tied, I have to keep attending school until the foreseeable future, with no alternative in place, or a possible 2 week midterm to ease community transmission, I just have to go in under the level 5 restrictions. I’m sure it won’t be too bad, my school has done the best job it can in helping stop any transmission, but it’s clearly not going to continue this lucky streak forever. With 4 days left in school, a lot can change. For example, over midterm they could announce school closures or extensions, restrictions or changes, it’s really all up in the air.
When reading the HSE guidelines for schools under Level 5, I was surprised fo see the 1.7% transmission rate figure, that seems awfully low for school transmissions. I was quite surprised and happy to see that, until I realised, they’ve only tested 10,500 people. I’m not so sure you can base decent figures of this many people. With over 1 million primary and secondary level students in the country 10,500 is a very very small minority. I was thinking when they said “wide scale mass testing” it would at least refer to 50,000+ student’s and teachers, but sure... they know what they’re doing right? I mean I did say yesterday you can’t gage the spreads the virus in Irish schools because there isn’t enough research done, so we’ll have to wait and see.

So finally, what do I think of all this? I think it’s kind of a mess honestly, I feel a lot of the numbers, figures and more were thrown together quickly and briefly to give small evidence that schools were a non-contributor to the spread of COVID, meanwhile I scratch my head in confusion because the “15-24” yrs old” category is skyrocketing, but sure at 18, while still being very very susceptible to the virus, we can just blame that increase on all the college students and nobody below 18.
I can’t tell if schools will close, and I don’t plan on guessing because it’s pointless, but what I know so far is, the next 3 weeks aren’t going to be pretty for the educational sector. Anything can happen, anything can change. There is a general fear among my peers on if we can take busses to school, if things will change, and all that jazz.

Hopefully things can be sorted out quickly and swiftly and people’s questions and concerns like mine can be answered. What’s your opinion on the level 5 and education restrictions? Thanks for reading.

selectamatic

blanch152 wrote: »

Staff are supposed not to mix, to socially distance at break times etc. If three staff from a school test positive from mixing with each other, that is on the staff not following the guidelines.

You do realise it is very common for a number of staff to be involved with the same group of children.

For example in my room there's an sna and myself in the room at all times and then two SET teachers deal with a number of pupils from my class throughout the day. All guidelines followed to the fullest but should a covid outbreak occur these very guidelines will offer little protection.

You really shouldn't be posting authoritatively about something you clearly don't fully understand.

wirelessdude01

blanch152 wrote: »

Eh, no, it doesn’t. There is no evid3nce around transmission, there is limited evidence around infection rates.

Here ya go.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/older-children-spread-coronavirus-just-as-much-as-adults-study-finds-1.4308106