Schools closed until February? (part 3)

Smacruairi

blanch152 wrote: »

Look the teacher unions are a joke, they are proving it with this kind of stuff.

Out of interest, would you support any union?

blanch152

Smacruairi wrote: »

No one wants the schools to close, not teachers, not parents, not students. However, I do not feel it is unrealistic nor unreasonable for school communities to be asking for added protections given as we are moving the country to the highest level we have, and given that when the Roadmap for Return to schools was devised it didn't identify that the virus spreads so readily through the air.

The original document which still covers all schools to date insists 1m is fine (we now know that that is fine for 15mins max). It didn't advise the wearing of masks, masks are now mandatory throughout all retail outlets which are running at reduced capacity etc. The documents defined close contacts as everyone in a pod, this has now been changed seemingly as hoc to those to the left and right of the child alone, without official guidance delivered to parents and students.

We have learned a lot more in a month about the virus, and the distinct lack of clarity surrounding the data (the need for 100k ppl to join a Facebook group as there is no breakdown even on a weekly basis when we were getting daily news reports about factories and gaa teams), all suggests a rethink of the way we certify the safety of schools and the way we do schooling.

It is extremely worrying the amount of people who don't think that a rethink about putting everyone together in the one building as per usual is needed. There are many many many alternatives and alterations being suggested. You have seen parents and a very eloquent student articulate their beliefs and their needs,and they reflect the concern that is out there. I have students in my class very concerned at bringing home the virus, but feel they are in a Sophies choice scenario because they don't want to miss teaching - that is extremely damaging to a child's sense of civic responsibility.

To reduce arguments to "teachers want schools closed, screw em" does no benefit to any form of social cohesion.

I have no doubt that people are concerned, people are worried, people are afraid. That doesn't mean that they are right or that their concerns are valid.

School transmission is extremely low. A school is a safer workplace than a hospital, a meat factory, a care home, a nursing home, a prison, a garda station and a direct provision centre.

The protections afforded to teachers are in line with that.

Icyseanfitz

blanch152 wrote: »

I have no doubt that people are concerned, people are worried, people are afraid. That doesn't mean that they are right or that their concerns are valid.

School transmission is extremely low. A school is a safer workplace than a hospital, a meat factory, a care home, a nursing home, a prison, a garda station and a direct provision centre.

The protections afforded to teachers are in line with that.

school transmission is low because they arnt testing people that should and would be close contacts in any other sector, you now have to be 2meters from a confirmed covid case for 2 hours in schools to be even considered a close contact, tell me where that is the case elsewhere ? its ****ing bs

Smacruairi

blanch152 wrote: »

I have no doubt that people are concerned, people are worried, people are afraid. That doesn't mean that they are right or that their concerns are valid.

School transmission is extremely low. A school is a safer workplace than a hospital, a meat factory, a care home, a nursing home, a prison, a garda station and a direct provision centre.

The protections afforded to teachers are in line with that.

So why are the protections afforded to retail workers stronger then schools? Why are partners and visitors to hospitals not allowed but 20+ in a room for hours at an end in schools kk?

niamh247

blanch152 wrote: »

To be honest, in many cases, if the school is doing its job properly, if all the protocols have been followed correctly, there shouldn't be any close contacts, certainly there should be no teacher-to-teacher transmission. If that is a problem in a school, the school isn't following the guidelines.

This has gone through roof in terms of being irrational, insensitive and with lack of point.

kandr10

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1019/1172454-teachers-schools-coronavirus/

The whole pregnancy thing is one that I've been watching since the start. Officially they say there is nothing to be worried about yet on the HSE letter it tells children who are positive to stay away from pregnant women.

To be fair, unless rigorous testing can be done, pregnant women are warned off everything. I don’t think there’s enough data to conduct a statistically significant study on pregnant women with the virus. So to be on the safe side they will advise taking precautions but also bear in mind that there’s little evidence of it causing major issues. Seems fair enough to me.

scouserstation

solerina wrote: »

This is the only reason the numbers don’t look catastrophic in relation to schools, they are simply not testing so they can’t find cases itpf they don’t test !! We have had a few cases in my school and in each instance no close contacts were identified even when the class group had spent all day together

In fairness they have been making a hames of the whole track and trace system in this country, schools are not alone in this

khalessi

scouserstation wrote: »

In fairness they have been making a hames of the whole track and trace system in this country, schools are not alone in this

True but schools are the only place they will wait for 2 hous to consider you a close contact.

scouserstation

khalessi wrote: »

True but schools are the only place they will wait for 2 hous to consider you a close contact.

With the correct procedures and PPE in place maybe this is why you have a 2 hour window, would you not have to be in close proximity without ppe to a confirmed case to be considered?

khalessi

scouserstation wrote: »

With the correct procedures and PPE in place maybe this is why you have a 2 hour window, would you not have to be in close proximity without ppe to a confirmed case to be considered?

The rule is 2 metres 15 minutes with or without a mask to be a close contact in all other sectors except teaching.

irishblessing

niamh247 wrote: »

This has gone through roof in terms of being irrational, insensitive and with lack of point.

I agree. Honestly, how many f-g times does it need to be said about the lack of testing and changing of the goalposts.

JP100

https://twitter.com/taxidamien/status/1317158117789106176?s=20

irishblessing

scouserstation wrote: »

In fairness they have been making a hames of the whole track and trace system in this country, schools are not alone in this

No they're not. Article on the GAA decision today. Echo's same concerns as in the schools. I will remember all this shíte on the next vote.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/1019/1172479-louth-captain-makes-startling-revelation-on-testing/

Louth football captain Bevan Duffy believes the GAA has failed inter-county players by returning to action as cases of Covid-19 increase, citing a lack of testing as one of his main concerns.

"I don't understand, with the case numbers going up, the way things are all around the country, how GAA inter-county footballers are all of a sudden immune to this," he said.

"We've teachers in that dressing room. We've lads living at home, a lot of lads living at home with their elderly parents.

"It doesn't really make that much sense."

Duffy also questioned the comments of many ex-players who work in the media.

"A lot of former players seem to be driving it, but they're lads who are writing articles and have TV gigs," he added.

"The lack of testing, the zero testing, I just can't understand it."
Expanding on current levels of testing in the inter-county sphere, Duffy said: "The protocols need to be better, without a doubt.

Given the lack of testing Duffy described, he's far from reassured by the current level of positive tests in the game, and he views the GAA's amateur ethos as another major challenge in completing the league and championship schedules.

"If you're not being tested, you're not going to get any positive tests," he concluded.

deiseindublin

khalessi wrote: »

True but schools are the only place they will wait for 2 hous to consider you a close contact.

Did the change to 2 hours even hit the media?

Handy way to have low transmission in schools.

munster87

Seems very contradictory to have schools open if the country is in level 5. I used to teach, I’m assuming schools will be looking for subs a good bit over the next while.

scouserstation

khalessi wrote: »

The rule is 2 metres 15 minutes with or without a mask to be a close contact in all other sectors except teaching.

But your not going to spend more than 15 minutes in close proximity to every student in the class, do they want every single person in the room tested for just 1 positive case? There just isn't the resources for this, for the most part testing and tracing is better served in the community, medical and nursing home settings where the bulk of cases are falling ill with covid, how many teachers or school kids do you reckon have ended up in hospital because of this?

scouserstation

munster87 wrote: »

Seems very contradictory to have schools open if the country is in level 5. I used to teach, I’m assuming schools will be looking for subs a good bit over the next while.

Schools are deemed essential services, so would you be happy closing down other essential services such as health clinics and supermarkets?

munster87

scouserstation wrote: »

Schools are deemed essential services, so would you be happy closing down other essential services such as health clinics and supermarkets?

Personally I would put missing 6 weeks of food or medication above missing 6 weeks of education.

Dickie10

surely they will shut schools after mid term for an extra week or two just in case, easy time to keep them closed you would think

kerry cow

irishblessing wrote:

Louth football captain Bevan Duffy believes the GAA has failed inter-county players by returning to action as cases of Covid-19 increase, citing a lack of testing as one of his main concerns.

well why don't these guys show balls and stay at home , lead by example and tell the county board stuff it

khalessi

scouserstation wrote: »

But your not going to spend more than 15 minutes in close proximity to every student in the class, do they want every single person in the room tested for just 1 positive case? There just isn't the resources for this, for the most part testing and tracing is better served in the community, medical and nursing home settings where the bulk of cases are falling ill with covid, how many teachers or school kids do you reckon have ended up in hospital because of this?

I work SET so yes I do spend more then 15 minutes with child on one side of table and me on other, a distance of less than 1 metre. And They had 7 months to improve testing, come up with an online platform and improve health services, but they didnt.

khalessi

munster87 wrote: »

Seems very contradictory to have schools open if the country is in level 5. I used to teach, I’m assuming schools will be looking for subs a good bit over the next while.

Not many available at primary level. For example my school has about 1000 children and 70 staff, and is one of 16 schools of similar sizes, which have been allocated 4 sub teachers to cover staff abscences. Good luck with that. The alternative is SET into classes and the kids who need SET suffer yet again and if no SET who knows.

irishblessing

kerry cow wrote: »

well why don't these guys show balls and stay at home , lead by example and tell the county board stuff it

Maybe they will....

combat14

seems absolutely mad to keep schools open!!

wirelessdude01

See a secondary school in Kerry made the decision to close the school building to students for the rest of the week.

Reading between the line there seems to have been issues with them not being made aware of positive cases and as a result the school feels a need to ensure the safety of the entire school community.

smck321

combat14 wrote: »

seems absolutely mad to keep schools open!!

It's a balancing act, the same people complaining about the staying open now will be the same people complaining in a few years time when social mobility drops off a cliff and there's serious issues because kids missed the best part of a year of education.

khalessi

combat14 wrote: »

seems absolutely mad to keep schools open!!

Sure what could go wrong, Micheal will keept talking to the school leaders.

https://twitter.com/ForumTeaching/status/1318285969032957952

irishblessing

khalessi wrote: »

Sure what could go wrong, Micheal will keept talking to the school leaders.

https://twitter.com/ForumTeaching/status/1318285969032957952

What a lazy, disingenuous load of crap. Glad he was called out.

The_Brood

The "schools are not causing this" at this point is one of the biggest political lies told in world history, nevermind Ireland. I honestly struggle to come up with anything that is a bigger lie. North Korea propaganda is barely matching this.

wirelessdude01

Interesting that Claire Byrne mentioned the rumours that Norma Foley argued at the cabinet today that schools couldn't be kept fully open.

Hadn't heard that.

Anyone got any tweets where this was said?