Schools closed until February? (part 3)

meeeeh

irishblessing wrote: »

what?! I've mentioned it here frequently. Read back if you like, it's there.

Classes and schools are closing ANYWAY. What do you not understand. Hybrid remote learning plans and resource support will actually reduce a lot of those listed problems.

And what of the mental (and physical) health to those who are risking themselves and their families to get a one size fits all plan in a global pandemic?

Well maybe then you will listen to WHO:

Referring to closure of schools around the world, which has hit millions of children, impacting not only their education but also a range of other important services, the WHO Director-General said that the decision to close schools should be a last resort, temporary and only at a local level in areas with intense transmission.

https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/09/1072472

And yes I know you mentioned your relatives here frequently. They seem to be the experts who we should follow on education.

You claim hybrid system will reduce risk I think it will just increase hassle. I don't see any research stating hybrid teaching is optimal solution.

blanch152

meeeeh wrote: »

And because every parent naturally and rightly cares the most about their own kids that means those 25 kids will be disadvantaged.

Home schooling is a solution to a problem we don't have at the moment. Infections in most schools are not high enough to warrant home schooling and I don't think it's fair to damage kids future because unions are looking to score some points. I watched Claire Byrne yesterday and it was quite obvious Sam McConkey had very little time for the school closures. I think those who are truly in risky environments probably find teacher unions complaining frustrating.

I must say Colm O'Rourke's contribution was stellar, describing the ability of ASTI to do something stupid at any time. Claire unfairly cut him off, afraid of the power of the unions.

blanch152

irishblessing wrote: »

Separately, I want to voice my irritation about parents at school. Last night was a blow to us all and what did I see this morning? Two mothers talking into each other's faces maskless and at times touching each other. School reopening policy states all parents need to wear masks on school grounds. Totally ignored. This has been going on since Sept. Another small group of 3 mothers chatting, one had a mask, rain starts lashing down so they all jump in the nearest car. Saw this as I was in queue to drive away. Brainless fools.

Yes, and this is the real problem.

Within the schools, thanks to the great work of principals, teachers and other staff, there is very low risk of transmission. Unfortunately, stupid parents outside the school are not so careful.

irishblessing

meeeeh wrote: »

Well maybe then you will listen to WHO:



https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/09/1072472

And yes I know you mentioned your relatives here frequently. They seem to be the experts who we should follow on education.

You claim hybrid system will reduce risk I think it will just increase hassle. I don't see any research stating hybrid teaching is optimal solution.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Maybe you will finally read this properly and internalise it. I am not saying close the schools. I would like to see an extra week tacked on to midterm break and then a HYBRID REMOTE LEARNING PLAN WHICH ALLOWS CHILDREN TO STILL RECEIVE AN EDUCATION IN VAROUS WAYS THAT CAN BETTER SUIT EACH FAMILY'S NEEDS.

Increases hassle... hahahahahaha are you Norma Foley? Work shy? Afraid to roll up the sleeves? And teachers are the ones getting bashed? FFS. I couldn't roll my eyes here any harder.

And you looked for this research, did you? I did a quick google search there just now and you're spoiled for choice. Off you go.

What isn't "optimal" is the chaotic and dangerous shít show we have now. Obviously.

meeeeh

blanch152 wrote: »

I must say Colm O'Rourke's contribution was stellar, describing the ability of ASTI to do something stupid at any time. Claire unfairly cut him off, afraid of the power of the unions.

I didn't hear that but it would be a good assessment.

meeeeh

irishblessing wrote: »

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Maybe you will finally read this properly and internalise it. I am not saying close the schools. I would like to see an extra week tacked on to midterm break and then a HYBRID REMOTE LEARNING PLAN WHICH ALLOWS CHILDREN TO STILL RECEIVE AN EDUCATION IN VAROUS WAYS THAT CAN BETTER SUIT EACH FAMILY'S NEEDS.

WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT.

Why the need to shout? Is that how you teach your kids?

And I'm saying your hybrid system is rubbish.

irishblessing

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, and this is the real problem.

Within the schools, thanks to the great work of principals, teachers and other staff, there is very low risk of transmission. Unfortunately, stupid parents outside the school are not so careful.

You don't know this. No one does because of our testing system and changing the goalposts of the rules to suit their agenda.

irishblessing

meeeeh wrote: »

Why the need to shout? Is that how you teach your kids?

And I'm saying your hybrid system is rubbish.

No, that's how I speak with emphasis to deliberately obtuse and tiresome, unempathetic adults on a discussion forum, obviously.

Ah, so the uni's here have an absolutely rubbish system do they? :pac: They should all just shut down instead? The countries who have all implemented these plans, including much of Europe, are rubbish at it too? You can troll back and look at those discussions here earlier and the article I posted from the ECDC who I think stated 60 eu countries who had some form of a remote learning plan. All rubbish according to you. We should all just stay lashed in including vulnerable people and not try and implement safer measures that actually stabilises the situation in light of closures and quarantines and illness. Jesus wept.

HerrKuehn

irishblessing wrote: »

No, that's how I speak to deliberately obtuse and tiresome, unempathetic adults on a discussion forum, obviously.

Ah, so the uni's here have an absolutely rubbish system do they? :pac: They should all just shut down instead? The countries who have all implemented these plans, including much of Europe, are rubbish at it too? You can troll back and look at those discussions here earlier and the article I posted from the ECDC who I think stated 60 eu countries who had some form of a remote learning plan. All rubbish according to you. We should all just stay lashed in including vulnerable people and not try and implement safer measures that actually stabilises the situation in light of closures and quarantines and illness. Jesus wept.

The universities are teaching motivated adults. It is a completely different situation. The adults they are teaching need to learn to self-learn anyway.

scouserstation

Glenbhoy wrote: »

If we were serious about contact tracing then of course everyone in the room should be tested. I'm sure you're aware of the tight classrooms which are the norm in Irish schools and the studies from China early in the pandemic showing the transmission amongst diners in a restaurant or the Korean office experience. When you refer to the medical and nursing home settings and how they deserve the resources, you ignore the potential for widespread community transmission resulting from unchecked and unknowing asymptomatic school kids and teachers. That's the problem, and that's why we are jeopardising the success or otherwise of this lockdown by not closing schools for at least some of it. If we're going to ask retail businesses to close en-masse for 6 weeks of their busiest quarter, is it worth taking the risk that it'll be in vain???

Its just not feasable to test everybody not unless they bring out antigen testing or something similar, so for now yeah I think testing should be concentrated to areas where its needed most for now there's not enough evidence to support testing in schools en masse, and do you really want kids being off school for another prolonged period again with all the problems that brings, and for what? Because some teachers feel the government has some sort of secret agenda on not testing in schools?

jrosen

Comparing primary school students or secondary school students with college students is really just apples and oranges. You can not expect the same from them.
College has students who have chosen their course, they will be self motivated to an extent. Very different to a teen who probably dislikes alot of his/her subjects and even more different to a 5th class child who is too immature to see the importance of what they are learning.
Clutching at straws now

meeeeh

irishblessing wrote: »

No, that's how I speak to deliberately obtuse and tiresome, unempathetic adults on a discussion forum, obviously.

Ah, so the uni's here have an absolutely rubbish system do they? :pac: They should all just shut down instead? The countries who have all implemented these plans, including much of Europe, are rubbish at it too? You can troll back and look at those discussions here earlier and the article I posted from the ECDC who I think stated 60 eu countries who had some form of a remote learning plan. All rubbish according to you. We should all just stay lashed in including vulnerable people and not try and implements after measures that actually stabilises the situation in light of closures and quarantines and illness. Jesus wept.

According to that ECDC report it is actually never stated what kind of remote learning plan and it is never stated Ireland doesn't have it. You didn't even properly read that report, it lists Ireland as one of fairly well positioned countries in comparison to others and it never states that Ireland had no remote learning plan. I agree remote learning plan was really not a plan during 1st lockdown it actually doesn't state if any of other 60 remote learning plans were any better. You are reading in that report what you wish to see not what it actually states.

Spare me lectures on a report you refuse to properly read and examine what it actually says and more importantly what it doesn't say.

irishblessing

HerrKuehn wrote: »

The universities are teaching motivated adults. It is a completely different situation. The adults they are teaching need to learn to self-learn anyway.

Students at any age are motivated or not. Are you aware of the uni drop out rates? :rolleyes:

Self directed learning and independence is an important skill and one that is taught and consistently honed from the earliest ages actually.

On this thread, actually I think it was the earlier one that reached almost 10k posts, there were accounts of primary and secondary schools here who jumped to online learning from the start of the first shutdown. Forward thinking, savvy principals and teachers who tried to engage full teaching online instead of a single weekly email. They are the trained educators of this country's children, yet you're going to label their plan as "rubbish?"

irishblessing

meeeeh wrote: »

According to that ECDC report it is actually never stated what kind of remote learning plan and it is never stated Ireland doesn't have it. You didn't even properly read that report, it lists Ireland as one of fairly well positioned countries in comparison to others and it never states that Ireland had no remote learning plan. I agree remote learning plan was really not a plan during 1st lockdown it actually doesn't state if any of other 60 remote learning plans were any better. You are reading in that report what you wish to see not what it actually states.

Spare me lectures on a report you refuse to properly read and examine what it actually says and more importantly what it doesn't say.

I literally pointed all that out. I did read it properly, that's why I posted it. Nice try at insulting me but it's not going to fly. I never said that it said Ireland has no remote learning plan. Our uni's have them and other training programs. have them. As I have plainly stated more than once here.

And you are deliberately ignoring the benefits of a hybrid plan with proper government supports because you're stubbornly backed in your corner now.

HerrKuehn

irishblessing wrote: »

Students at any age are motivated or not. Are you aware of the uni drop out rates? :rolleyes:

Self directed learning and independence is an important skill and one that is taught and consistently honed from the earliest ages actually.

On this thread, actually I think it was the earlier one that reached almost 10k posts, there were accounts of primary and secondary schools here who jumped to online learning from the start of the first shutdown. Forward thinking, savvy principals and teachers who tried to engage full teaching online instead of a single weekly email. They are the trained educators of this country's children, yet you're going to label their plan as "rubbish?"

So they drop out and they get a job. They are adults at that point and have to make their own decisions. University is completely different and it isn't school for 20 year olds. Do they teach "rolleyes" in teacher training?

irishblessing

jrosen wrote: »

Comparing primary school students or secondary school students with college students is really just apples and oranges. You can not expect the same from them.
College has students who have chosen their course, they will be self motivated to an extent. Very different to a teen who probably dislikes alot of his/her subjects and even more different to a 5th class child who is too immature to see the importance of what they are learning.
Clutching at straws now

I've already addressed those points.

So what's your answer- let the students and families and schools flop around with constant closures and quarantines, each time disrupting learning? Continue to ignore lessons from other countries about transmission and lack of safety in crowded classrooms? Extremely short-sighted.

irishblessing

HerrKuehn wrote: »

So they drop out and they get a job. They are adults at that point and have to make their own decisions. University is completely different and it isn't school for 20 year olds. Do they teach "rolleyes" in teacher training?

Kids in a remote learning system cannot "drop out." For one most of them will rotate IN the school (Jesus, some here seem quite unable to understand this) and furthermore their parents are STILL responsible for ensuring their children are engaging in learning. Is that not one of the main points made for children having homework and projects so to engage the parent in their children's education. Absences and lack of engagement will be logged and solutions found like any issue with student learning.

wirelessdude01

HerrKuehn wrote: »

So they drop out and they get a job. They are adults at that point and have to make their own decisions. University is completely different and it isn't school for 20 year olds. Do they teach "rolleyes" in teacher training?

I don't think the poster in question is a teacher.

HerrKuehn

irishblessing wrote: »

Kids in a remote learning system cannot "drop out." For one most of them will rotate IN the school (Jesus, some here seem quite unable to understand this) and furthermore their parents are STILL responsible for ensuring their children are engaging in learning. Is that not one of the main points made for children having homework and projects so to engage the parent in their children's education. Absences and lack of engagement will be logged and solutions found like any issue with student learning.

By "drop out" I was of course referring to university students. With respect to schools, I think remote learning for primary school is complete nonsense. I think any parent that would engage with it would have no problem finding reading/maths material for the kids to work on themselves. The parents the who would be unable to do this, would not engage with it anyway. I think if primary schools need to close, they should take time off and try to make it up later. Reduce xmas, easter etc.
For secondary I would expect that motivated older kids should be ok with remote learning. Kids from disadvantaged backgrounds will probably disengage.

Mrsmum

Anyone who thinks all is well with remote learning at college level is just wrong. It is my work area although not as a lecturer. But at that level, at the end of the day, it's on their own head. It is not compulsory to go to 3rd level. I was discussing this with a teacher the other day and she said in fairness remote learning at teacher training college would not have suited her at all. She said it must be the loneliest and unconnected way of learning. Think about it for a minute. Imagine your own college course done remotely.She wasn't surprised to hear a lot of students, especially boys, are barely bothering at all. That people want that for children for whom school is compulsory is very short sighted. Those who are specifically at risk should be at home, learning remotely but it is far healthier in every way for the bulk of children to be at school.

meeeeh

irishblessing wrote: »

I literally pointed all that out. I did read it properly, that's why I posted it. Nice try at insulting me but it's not going to fly. I never said that it said Ireland has no remote learning plan. Our uni's have them and other training programs. have them. As I have plainly stated more than once here.

OK state what kind of plans are listed in report, who has it and who doesn't. How does Ireland compare to the plans in report? Otherwise I really don't know how that report is relevant.

irishblessing

HerrKuehn wrote: »

By "drop out" I was of course referring to university students. With respect to schools, I think remote learning for primary school is complete nonsense. I think any parent that would engage with it would have no problem finding reading/maths material for the kids to work on themselves. The parents the who would be unable to do this, would not engage with it anyway. I think if primary schools need to close, they should take time off and try to make it up later. Reduce xmas, easter etc.
For secondary I would expect that motivated older kids should be ok with remote learning. Kids from disadvantaged backgrounds will probably disengage.

Oh really, so the DES who have now ordered all primary and secondary schools to implement one is nonsense?

Are you really saying that parents will have no problems putting together and teaching lesson plans? On top of their jobs and everything else? And those who don't have the time, or confidence are now just wasters of parents who wouldn't engage anyway? Wow... I have to be taking you up wrong surely.

Making up time later is another idea. It's not like people can take holidays during shut downs anyway. Or at least they shouldn't be.

Full remote learning by the way is not what I'm advocating for here. It should be an option for those who need it who are at risk but what I'm saying is there should be a blended learning plan that offers choice and continuity of education during times of class/school closures, quarantine and illness. The DES has already directed schools to have a remote platform in place. Why on earth would anyone have an issue with continuing education in light of those issues.

Yes, kids from disadvantaged homes will continue to be disadvantaged unless we actively address that issue. What if those students (who are usually known to the teachers/school) were to be in the full time classroom and/or involve social workers to help manage and advocate for those students and families.

Hubertj

blanch152 wrote: »

Wow, just wow, look at the entitlement culture from the INTO - see piece in bold.

They want more than people working in meat factories get, more than people working in hospitals get, more than people working in care homes, direct provision centres, prisons get etc. and all of those people are in much more dangerous situations than teachers.

People in the high-risk category are out there in the health service putting their lives at risk every day to save teachers and their families and everyone else, yet the teachers want special measures for themselves.

well said, he's carrying on like a public health expert. He is a teacher, nothing more. How teachers allow this likes of this to represent them. Shows a detachment from reality to think the public would support such statements. Truly pathetic behaviour.

irishblessing

meeeeh wrote: »

OK state what kind of plans are listed in report, who has it and who doesn't. How does Ireland compare to the plans in report? Otherwise I really don't know how that report is relevant.

You will need to do your own research and on those countries individually to collate your own research if you are so interested. Great to see that you are! Would be interested myself to hear more details about all 60 eu countries if you have the time so I would. I know it will take you quite some time so I wouldn't expect to hear back for at least a couple of weeks but as you seem to think I've the time to satisfy your curiosity you must be willing to devote your own to your own question. You could then also submit your findings to the EDCD, your local TDs, and the teaching/principal unions. We can't be the only interested people.

HerrKuehn

irishblessing wrote: »

Are you really saying that parents will have no problems putting together and teaching lesson plans? On top of their jobs and everything else? And those who don't have the time, or confidence are now just wasters of parents who wouldn't engage anyway? Wow... I have to be taking you up wrong surely.

I don't think you need to have lesson plans as such. For primary school, they can focus on writing, reading and maths in my opinion. There are plenty of resources available. If they are not able to do that on top of their jobs, I find it unlikely that they would be able to follow the lesson plans anyway.

meeeeh

irishblessing wrote: »

You will need to do your own research and on those countries individually to collate your own research if you are so interested. Great to see that you are! Would be interested myself to hear more details about all 60 eu countries if you have the time so I would. I know it will take you quite some time so I wouldn't expect to hear back for at least a couple of weeks but as you seem to think I've the time to satisfy your curiosity you must be willing to devote your own to your own question. You could then also submit your findings to the EDCD, your local TDs, and the teaching/principal unions. We can't be the only interested people.

So basically you just quoted a report because you needed to quote a report.

irishblessing

Mrsmum wrote: »

Anyone who thinks all is well with remote learning at college level is just wrong. It is my work area although not as a lecturer. But at that level, at the end of the day, it's on their own head. It is not compulsory to go to 3rd level. I was discussing this with a teacher the other day and she said in fairness remote learning at teacher training college would not have suited her at all. She said it must be the loneliest and unconnected way of learning. Think about it for a minute. Imagine your own college course done remotely.She wasn't surprised to hear a lot of students, especially boys, are barely bothering at all. That people want that for children for whom school is compulsory is very short sighted. Those who are specifically at risk should be at home, learning remotely but it is far healthier in every way for the bulk of children to be at school.

Yes... do think about it... A blended plan... hmm, what does that word "blended" or hybrid actually mean... get there, you can do it!

irishblessing

meeeeh wrote: »

So basically you just quoted a report because you needed to quote a report.

Uh, that's usually the idea. You are asking your own questions so go off and research your own questions. I am very interested in what the remote learning plans look like in all those countries though, if you find such a report or do your own research and want to post it here I would be very happy to read it.

The point is that the majority of countries in the eu and indeed many around the world saw a need for some type of remote learning plan.

Our own DES only got there what, a couple weeks ago? And released a directive that they even backdated to Sept, lol!!!

Mrsmum

irishblessing wrote: »

Yes... do think about it... A blended plan... hmm, what does that word "blended" or hybrid actually mean... get there, you can do it!

You really should learn to have a civil conversation. What age are you ?

meeeeh

irishblessing wrote: »

Uh, that's usually the idea. You are asking your own questions so go off and research your own questions. I am very interested in what the remote learning plans look like in all those countries though, if you find such a report or do your own research and want to post it here I would be very happy to read it.

Newsflash just finding any report and hoping nobody else will read it isn't really smart. I suspect you actually read the report only when you were challenged on your claims about the report. You still didn't explain what is it's relevance in relation to your claims.