Schools closed until February? (part 3)

eagle eye

blanch152 wrote:

If one child is tested, and there is one positive result, the positivity rate is 100%.

So if one child is tested in every school in the country and they all test positive we will be told that there's a 100% positivity rate in schools?
Or will we be told that it's under 1% because they use the full number of students in schools?

meeeeh

khalessi wrote: »

If you aren't testing children or close contacts, you will get low positivity rate

Do you claim they are intentionally picking random kids from schools that have no symptoms and test them so they will dilute positivity rate? Because to have two out of hundred kids positive you have to test 100 so are you saying that they are not testing contacts but testing other kids or inventing school tests.

meeeeh

eagle eye wrote: »

So if one child is tested in every school in the country and they all test positive we will be told that there's a 100% positivity rate in schools?
Or will we be told that it's under 1% because they use the full number of students in schools?

Positivity rate is how many of the tests performed come back positive not percentage of kids in school testing positive. That is significantly lower. So if 100 school kids are tested, 1% positivity rate means one of those 100 was positive.

Edit: seeing many don't understand what positivity rate explains. It tells us how many of the performed tests come positive. It's relevant because the number of tests is limited. For example if you do 1000 tests and have to limit them to only those with significant symptoms the positivity rate will be higher. It's important when prevalence of covid is evaluated. The less you test less people will be confirmed covid positive. If 90% of tests will come back positive it just tells us that they are not testing enough. Positivity rate is one of the indicators for the new green, orange, red system eu is establishing for air travel.

eagle eye

meeeeh wrote:

Positivity rate is how many of the tests performed come back positive not percentage of kids in school testing positive. That is significantly lower. So if 100 school kids are tested, 1% positivity rate means one of those 100 was positive.

Have you a link to where these numbers are published?

HerrKuehn

meeeeh wrote: »

Do you claim they are intentionally picking random kids from schools that have no symptoms and test them so they will dilute positivity rate? Because to have two out of hundred kids positive you have to test 100 so are you saying that they are not testing contacts but testing other kids or inventing school tests.

This lack of understanding barely even warrants a response. Khalessi, just to put your mind at ease, the 7.3% positivity rate in the wider community does not mean that 7.3% of the entire population of Ireland have tested positive.

drunkmonkey

Bit baffled at what's after going on in the local School, one teacher tested positive about a week ago, HSE said no need to test the students as they were wearing masks and so was the teacher, fast forward a week and one student is home sick with a positive result and the rest of the class were told stay at home, now there testing all the rest of the class and their families.

wirelessdude01

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Bit baffled at what's after going on in the local School, one teacher tested positive about a week ago, HSE said no need to test the students as they were wearing masks and so was the teacher, fast forward a week and one student is home sick with a positive result and the rest of the class were told stay at home, now there testing all the rest of the class and their families.

This is what happens when they class close contacts in schools differently.

Lillyfae

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Bit baffled at what's after going on in the local School, one teacher tested positive about a week ago, HSE said no need to test the students as they were wearing masks and so was the teacher, fast forward a week and one student is home sick with a positive result and the rest of the class were told stay at home, now there testing all the rest of the class and their families.

Is it because they are allowed to mix with each other without masks outside of school/class time? But the teacher was not in contact with them without a mask?

Hellrazer

Posted this in the nphet thread but its probably relevant here aswell.

I can only speak for my own sons school here and so far they have had 5 students and 5 teachers test positive for covid (Maynooth post primary)

Each of those 5 teenagers have probably come into contact with at least 10 students each per day - thats 50 contacts.

Each of those could have the same.So we`re now at 500.
Thats in one school. That school has upwards of 2000 students!!

My son was what he thought was a close contact of one of them but the school deemed he wasnt...

Theres something seriously wrong with the way its being reported or close contacts are being defined in schools.

Then I find out that instances in Maynooths incidence rate increased by 300% in a week.
https://kfmradio.com/news/16102020-0...-increased-300

Too much of a coincidence for my liking!!

drunkmonkey

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

This is what happens when they class close contacts in schools differently.

Doesn't seem to be the most cunning of plans, keeping them open is some sort of herd immunity strategy by the looks of it.

nothing

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Doesn't seem to be the most cunning of plans, keeping them open is some sort of herd immunity strategy by the looks of it.

Herd immunity doesn't exist when you can be reinfected...

khalessi

meeeeh wrote: »

Do you claim they are intentionally picking random kids from schools that have no symptoms and test them so they will dilute positivity rate? Because to have two out of hundred kids positive you have to test 100 so are you saying that they are not testing contacts but testing other kids or inventing school tests.

No I am not claiming that.

meeeeh

eagle eye wrote: »

Have you a link to where these numbers are published?

I don't. It was mentioned in reports about presentation Nphet made to government.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/coronavirus-schools-safer-than-wider-community-officials-say-1.4384292

I have no reason to believe they are faking numbers.

drunkmonkey

nothing wrote: »

Herd immunity doesn't exist when you can be reinfected...

It does it you do it quick enough any case of reinfection was a few months after....this long drawn method seems to be some kind of plan not to overwhelm the hospitals. Infect the young by the looks of it, I really don't know it's not obvious what their thinking is.

frank8211

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

They are actually ruling out nearly every student as well at secondary level with ordinary and higher level and then all the subject options. All the movement means pretty much zero close contacts.

So that's the trick being used to hide them

meeeeh

Hellrazer wrote: »

Posted this in the nphet thread but its probably relevant here aswell.

What exactly does this tell us? I'm sorry but making this kind of nonsense conclusions creates bad science. The school might have contributed to the local increase or it might not. But conclude that on the basis that a child who thought he should be closed contact wasn't tested is complete nonsense. Those that person know the break down of where infections are? School, parents with kids, teenagers, factories, shops....

JimmyVik

If you want to manipulate the figures in schools...
You change the rules for close contacts in schools.
You can just not consider people close contacts so that you dont have to test them. Or pick people from other classrooms to test.
If you do have to test them You just move the classification of the tests from schools to homes when you get a positive test back.
So many ways to manipulate the results the way you want.

But the biggest way to manipulate them.
Is to hide the stats in your reports. Pick obscure meaningless age ranges. You know things like that and many more.

And of course, none of those scenarios or any others are happening in schools.

Look at the reports they publish about the virus spreading from an index case. Lots of pretty little graphs and pictures to show us how one person spread the virus to 30 or so others showing pubs, reteraunts, family homes, men, women, gaa matches and much more.
Not a mention of children of all of those people or who may have been in those houses. Children stats washed right out of the their pretty little diagrams.

Transparency please nphet. Thats all people want. Its harder to expose the data to the public in the way you are doing it, than to expose it to them in a transparent manner.

meeeeh

JimmyVik wrote: »

If you want to manipulate the figures in schools...
You change the rules for close contacts in schools.
You can just not consider people close contacts so that you dont have to test them. Or pick people from other classrooms to test.
If you do have to test them You just move the classification of the tests from schools to homes when you get a positive test back.
So many ways to manipulate the results the way you want.

But the biggest way to manipulate them.
Is to hide the stats in your reports. Pick obscure meaningless age ranges. You know things like that and many more.

And of course, none of those scenarios or any others are happening in schools.

Yes Nphet who are happy to leak every time they want to bounce government into are intentionally covering up for government.

This is the same type of nonsense as antivax, fake corona and similar theories.

wirelessdude01

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1019/1172454-teachers-schools-coronavirus/

The whole pregnancy thing is one that I've been watching since the start. Officially they say there is nothing to be worried about yet on the HSE letter it tells children who are positive to stay away from pregnant women.

JimmyVik

meeeeh wrote: »

Yes Nphet who are happy to leak every time they want to bounce government into are intentionally covering up for government.

This is the same type of nonsense as antivax, fake corona and similar theories.

OK, so heres a very simple question. Any transparent reporting structure should allow you to get the answer in seconds. And the answer would put us all at ease or scare us. Dont know until we know the answer.

So go get the answer to this for us.


How many children in primary schools who have tested positive for the virus have passed the virus to someone else?

JimmyVik

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1019/1172454-teachers-schools-coronavirus/

The whole pregnancy thing is one that I've been watching since the start. Officially they say there is nothing to be worried about yet on the HSE letter it tells children who are positive to stay away from pregnant women.

You never take chances with pregnant women. With anything. I wouldnt read too much into that one tbh.

meeeeh

JimmyVik wrote: »

OK, so heres a very simple question. Any transparent reporting structure should allow you to get the answer in seconds. And the answer would put us all at ease or scare us. Dont know until we know the answer.

So go get the answer to this for us.


How many children in primary schools who have tested positive for the virus have passed the virus to someone else?

You won't get exact number because one child could transmit to 3 and another to none but there is a good breakdown bellow.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/coronavirus-schools-safer-than-wider-community-officials-say-1.4384292

The number of swabs taken in mass testing in schools rose to 2,500 last week from 1,500 the week before, reflecting the higher level of transmission in the community but the positive rate from mass testing in schools has remained consistent since they reopened.

One health official said the figures showed children do not spread the virus to other children in classes to any great extent, demonstrating the efficacy of protective measures in a controlled environment such as a school and the fact children were not primary sources of transmission.

As part of testing in schools, the HSE tested 10,453 people as a result of 437 cases identified in creches and schools. It detected 258 cases, representing a positive rate of 2.5 per cent.

Within these figures, out of 115 Covid-19 “index” cases identified in secondary schools, 2,716 tests were carried out and a further 49 cases detected, giving a positive rate of 1.8 per cent.

Some 211 Covid-19 case in primary schools led to the testing of 5,317 schoolchildren and teachers, resulting in 102 additional cases being detected, a positive rate of 1.9 per cent.

In creches and other childcare settings, the discovery of 92 Covid-19 cases led to tests on 1,865 infants and childcare workers and 97 further cases being detected, a positive rate of 5.2 per cent.

Out of these additional cases, 23 were adults and 74 were children.

In special education facilities, some 19 coronavirus cases led to a further 555 people being mass-tested, resulting in 10 new cases being detected, a positive rate of 1.8 per cent.

eagle eye

meeeeh wrote:

Yes Nphet who are happy to leak every time they want to bounce government into are intentionally covering up for government.

This is the same type of nonsense as antivax, fake corona and similar theories.

NPHET haven't been leaking anything. Even the media admitted all the leaks are from the government.

khalessi

Lillyfae wrote: »

Is it because they are allowed to mix with each other without masks outside of school/class time? But the teacher was not in contact with them without a mask?

The mask should not be an issue. It is not an issue in the guidelines or in other sectors.

As I have said previously, my sister was tested 3 times in a week a few weeks ago, because she came in contact with a doctor who tested positive, and she was considered a close contact even though she reckons she was at least 2 metres from him and both were wearing masks.

It is only in schools where they say not considered a close contact due to masks. They also are now saying a teacher has to be in contact with a student for 2 hours apparently.

meeeeh

eagle eye wrote: »

NPHET haven't been leaking anything. Even the media admitted all the leaks are from the government.

Who admitted when?

wirelessdude01

meeeeh wrote: »

Who admitted when?

Think I saw that RTE said that their information had been confirmed by numerous different Govt sources.

The leaks are total kite flying, a particular like for one faction of this Govt.

khalessi

JimmyVik wrote: »

If you want to manipulate the figures in schools...
You change the rules for close contacts in schools.
You can just not consider people close contacts so that you dont have to test them. Or pick people from other classrooms to test.
If you do have to test them You just move the classification of the tests from schools to homes when you get a positive test back.
So many ways to manipulate the results the way you want.

But the biggest way to manipulate them.
Is to hide the stats in your reports. Pick obscure meaningless age ranges. You know things like that and many more.

And of course, none of those scenarios or any others are happening in schools.

Look at the reports they publish about the virus spreading from an index case. Lots of pretty little graphs and pictures to show us how one person spread the virus to 30 or so others showing pubs, reteraunts, family homes, men, women, gaa matches and much more.
Not a mention of children of all of those people or who may have been in those houses. Children stats washed right out of the their pretty little diagrams.

Transparency please nphet. Thats all people want. Its harder to expose the data to the public in the way you are doing it, than to expose it to them in a transparent manner.

meeeeh wrote: »

Yes Nphet who are happy to leak every time they want to bounce government into are intentionally covering up for government.

This is the same type of nonsense as antivax, fake corona and similar theories.

If we worked in meat factories and said this is what was going on would you describe it as nonsense?

drunkmonkey

khalessi wrote: »

The mask should not be an issue. It is not an issue in the guidelines or in other sectors.

As I have said previously, my sister was tested 3 times in a week a few weeks ago, because she came in contact with a doctor who tested positive, and she was considered a close contact even though she reckons she was at least 2 metres from him and both were wearing masks.

It is only in schools where they say not considered a close contact due to masks. They also are now saying a teacher has to be in contact with a student for 2 hours apparently.

There only considered not close contacts due to masks until one of them gets sick then all the people in masks are then considered close contacts.
It's a wait and and see approach, in the local school they could have nipped this in the bud a week ago instead they've done the opposite and let it run wild for a week.

HerrKuehn

khalessi wrote: »

No I am not claiming that.

Given your 1 in 30 answer above for the positivity rate, it is clear you haven't got a clue what you are talking about. I'm beginning to think you are trolling

Fr_Dougal

Can some teachers confirm whether they are being told to turn off their Covid19 app?