Covid 19 Part XXIV-37,063 ROI (1,801 deaths) 12,886 NI (582 deaths) (02/10) Read OP

tobefrank321

Holohan returns and goes for the usual sledge hammer to crack a nut approach, the equivalent of shutting down roads to stop car crashes.

Realistically we can only afford to have one more lockdown and only when we really need it.

mickdw

This government have put an advisory committee between Nphet and the cabinet. This is a layer of political protection for the government to allow them to not take on board nphet recommendations and at the same time not take the blame for ignoring them.
I believe we should have level 4 at least right now but government if worried about ecomony might be tempted to do less and will use the recently installed layer of political padding to protect themselves.

KrustyUCC

https://twitter.com/paulreiddublin/status/1312979027918049280

Sardonicat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ah come off of that. The weakest health system in Europe. That's patently not true. Do you think Latvia's health system is better? What metric are you using? In patient care in my opinion is better in Ireland than the UK, (used to work for the NHS).

Where we fall down is outpatients, community services etc.

And not a and e because we don't have enough free acute beds to get people off trolleys because we have virtually zero step down services which results in beds being occupied by those still in need of care but not an acute hospital bed ? You come off it!

Icyseanfitz

giveitholly wrote: »

Will you lose your job or business if the country goes to level 5 in the next few days?

I don't believe so, but i am at the bottom rung of public sector so could happen. Its a horror situation currently, save economy and businesses or try to save lives and some of the economy. Not a black and white decision but safety must come first in my opinion.

Sardonicat

Sardonicat wrote: »

And not a and e because we don't have enough free acute beds to get people off trolleys because we have virtually zero step down services which results in beds being occupied by those still in need of care but not an acute hospital bed ? You come off it!

There is one specific hospital where this is an issue, UHL and that is due to the closing Ennis A+E.

As an aside, A+E isn't in-patient care.

ThunbergsAreGo

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

If measures are weak it's delaying the inevitable and prolonging uncertainty, much more costly in the medium term.

I'd rather level 5 now, cut transmission now rather than having to introduce panic restrictions at the end of October.

Not acting now leaves us in a reactionary position which is not a good place to be.

How long do you expect level 5 to last for?

Mwengwe

I didn't go near public transport the last time we were locked down but as someone who doesn't drive at all I'm wondering how strictly was it policed last time? If you have an excuse for them do they probe?. It's just the train I might need to get on occasion and tbh even over the last couple of months it's been about 25% full on my journey.

batman_oh

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

If measures are weak it's delaying the inevitable and prolonging uncertainty, much more costly in the medium term.

I'd rather level 5 now, cut transmission now rather than having to introduce panic restrictions at the end of October.

Not acting now leaves us in a reactionary position which is not a good place to be.

But it won't cut transmission - the schools are still open so it will continue there and it will slow it down for whatever number of weeks until the exact same thing happens again once they come out of level 5

iamwhoiam

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah come off of that. The weakest health system in Europe. That's patently not true. Do you think Latvia's health system is better? What metric are you using? In patient care in my opinion is better in Ireland than the UK, (used to work for the NHS).

Where we fall down is outpatients, community services etc.

One very big difference to start with
ICU beds per 100.O00 .
Ireland 6.5
Latvia 9.7


https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00134-012-2627-8/tables/2

dubdaymo

Nothing like this has been proposed until a certain person decided to unexpectedly return to the fold. It's obvious that the poor man's mind is gone under the heavy burden. I feel sorry for him but the country can't be allowed to be shut down again on his account.

A few months away from it all with therapy in Happy Pastures should help to slowly bring him back to an understanding of how real life works.

blowitupref

George Lee on RTÉ said NPHET was very clear on Thursday that the situation did not support a nationwide move to Level 3, and now we are suddenly facing the possibility of Level 5?

Simon Harris say such leaks & speculation don’t help. Today needs to bring clarity

Paul Reid questioning the need for level 5 right now as it causes other issues such as public health, wellbeing, mental health and the economy

NIMAN

SeaBreezes wrote: »

Whats the alternative NIMAN. Open up let it kill whom it may?

150,000 of us with longcovid by xmas?
Another 6,000 dead of covid?
Another 4,000 assisted deaths? (No tests, oxygen,icu for elderly)

And a tanked economy as well?
Cause thats exactly what happened in Sweden.

Numbers there only started dropping during summer break.
Even sweden are starting house isolation now. Why? Surely they are immune by now?

Is that true about Sweden?

I thought it was held up as and example of a different approach. The BBC even had an piece on their news channel about it the other night, I don't remember it mentioning hundreds of thousands dead and a tanked economy.

Re: our situation, I just think we should take some comfort in the fact that deaths are very low considering our case numbers. It's mostly younger people getting it now but it appears the older and more vulnerable are watching themselves.

I would be all for a circuit breaker for 2 weeks but all I was saying is that the cycle will reappear once that is over....People will go back to not behaving and numbers will rise again. It will be cyclical.

Funsterdelux

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Here's a reminder of what Level 5 would entail:

• Stay at home. Exercise only within 5km of your home.
• Schools, creches and higher education remain open.
• No social or family gatherings.
• Up to 6 guests can attend a wedding.
• No organised indoor gatherings to take place.
• No organised outdoor gatherings should take place.
• No Exercise or Dance Classes. Gyms, Leisure Centres and Swimming Pools closed.
• Religious services online only. Places of worship remain open for private prayer.
• Up to 10 mourners can attend a funeral.
• Museums, Galleries and other Cultural Attractions closed.
• Bars, Cafe’s and Restaurants will operate takeaway or delivery service only.
• Pubs serving only alcohol to operate takeaway or delivery only.
• Hotels only open for essential, non social and non tourism purposes.
• Essential retail only. All the retail and personal services closed.
• Work from home unless absolutely necessary.
• Playgrounds, play areas and parks remain open.
• Public Transport restricted to 25% capacity for essential workers only.
• Visiting to residential care facilities suspended.

Is there any further detail when it comes to secondary schools @level 5 , i.e. letting them out at lunchtimes/congregating etc?

Boggles

150 confirmed cases in hospital 15 admission in the last 24 hours.

The situation has obviously rapidly deteriorated since Thursday. We have had about 2300 cases in the past 5 days, approaching a 500 a day average.

I imagine 50-50 if we get a briefing this evening.

Gael23

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

If we let the virus eat our hospitals our economy will collapse as well as killing thousands on this island, its lesser of two evils time

Is there no middle ground of Level 4 for Dublin and a few others and Level 3 for everywhere else?

odyssey06

batman_oh wrote: »

But it won't cut transmission - the schools are still open so it will continue there and it will slow it down for whatever number of weeks until the exact same thing happens again once they come out of level 5

Lockdown in Kildare made sense, there was a once-off set of clusters they were trying to contain from spreading to the community.

Lockdown the whole country now due to the community transmission, while there's still no real legal restrictions on foreign travel, with schools open we will be back where we are now month after the lockdown lifts.

bennyl10

Level 4 and 5 seem fairly similar to me?..
Is there any real substantial difference?

4 is surely the easier option, especially if they are the same in most things

alentejo

Meanwhile

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/exacerbation-of-covid-19-crisis-risk-to-ireland-s-debt-rating-1.4372328

tobefrank321

SeaBreezes wrote: »

Whats the alternative NIMAN. Open up let it kill whom it may?

150,000 of us with longcovid by xmas?
Another 6,000 dead of covid?
Another 4,000 assisted deaths? (No tests, oxygen,icu for elderly)

And a tanked economy as well?
Cause thats exactly what happened in Sweden.

Numbers there only started dropping during summer break.
Even sweden are starting house isolation now. Why? Surely they are immune by now?

You do post some nonsense.

Sweden is twice our population.
Another 6000 deaths? We've had 1800 so far. Sweden despite remaining open are on track to have no more than 500 new deaths by Christmas.

4000 assisted deaths? At least you accept Ireland also has assisted deaths.

Sweden always had isolation for the elderly and occasionally nursing homes.

AdamD

Boggles wrote: »

150 confirmed cases in hospital 15 admission in the last 24 hours.

The situation has obviously rapidly deteriorated since Thursday. We have had about 2300 cases in the past 5 days, approaching a 500 a day average.

I imagine 50-50 if we get a briefing this evening.

Not getting a briefing from somebody today would be beyond belief. It absolutely has to happen after last night's events

Boggles

AdamD wrote: »

Not getting a briefing from somebody today would be beyond belief. It absolutely has to happen after last night's events

I imagine that will not be Tony's call.

Asylum15

NIMAN wrote: »

Answer me this one.

If we have a month of level 5 and we get down to the numbers we had during the summer, then open up again surely the same cycle will repeat and come Xmas time we will be in full panic mode again.

Can't help but feel there was a key time period in which our government had to make crucial decisions which the public would (majority) be on-board for. Our initial lockdown seemed the right move but as many have said things like keeping the borders open etc was very costly. Seems we missed the boat on truly flattening this.

Now, compliance will be much lower for any drastic moves and it'll be clear that this virus isn't going anywhere anytime soon, level 5 or not.

One thing for Tony to say Level 5, another for the general public to follow the advice right now.

(Note - I personally wear masks everywhere, sanitize etc and don't engage in group activities or reckless behavior so I would follow any advice)

Icyseanfitz

Gael23 wrote: »

Is there no middle ground of Level 4 for Dublin and a few others and Level 3 for everywhere else?

We are doing middle ground right now, its not working

Sweet.Science

Either lockdown fully until there is a vaccine next year or leave things as they are.

Blondini

So let's close down safe businesses, but let 1 million people mingle indoors in poorly ventilated schools with no SD?

Cool.

Richard Hillman

I think people are suffering from a form of Stockholm Syndrome. They feel comfortable with lockdowns and are afraid of going back to the real world.

odyssey06

bennyl10 wrote: »

Level 4 and 5 seem fairly similar to me?..
Is there any real substantial difference? 4 is surely the easier option, especially if they are the same in most things

The big one for Level 5 is:
Stay at home.
Exercise within 5 kilometres of home.

Level 4 is:
Stay in your county (or other defined geographical area) apart from essential work, education and other essential purposes.

So basically like March or April don't go out except for exercise or essential business.

Icyseanfitz

Asylum15 wrote: »

Can't help but feel there was a key time period in which our government had to make crucial decisions which the public would (majority) be on-board for. Our initial lockdown seemed the right move but as many have said things like keeping the borders open etc was very costly. Seems we missed the boat on truly flattening this.

Now, compliance will be much lower for any drastic moves and it'll be clear that this virus isn't going anywhere anytime soon, level 5 or not.

One thing for Tony to say Level 5, another for the general public to follow the advice right now.

(Note - I personally wear masks everywhere, sanitize etc and don't engage in group activities or reckless behavior so I would follow any advice)

In my opinion that was the full as normal reopening of schools.

Sardonicat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is one specific hospital where this is an issue, UHL and that is due to the closing Ennis A+E.

As an aside, A+E isn't in-patient care.

I'm aware what A and E is and isn't. If you present with acute symptoms yoy will admit to hispital via A abd E. If you require a bed on a ward and there isn't one you stay on a trolley in A and E, sometimes for days, not getting the care yoy need because, as you rightly pointed out, it is not an inpatient setting. No it is not only an issue in one hospital it is a country wide issue and has been for years. Unless you've just arrived from Mars you know that.