2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

Overheal

hotmail.com wrote: »

You know that we hear people calling Trump a dictator, time and time again.

Who is we, and who mentioned it on this thread before post #192, which was you?

edit: there was only one post even, in the entire Part 1 of this thread, which even tangentially suggested Trump wanted to be a dictator. Barring that sole example, nobody here in the last 7 months, and I would think since the start of this forum, has argued he's "a dictator."

mcmoustache

hotmail.com wrote: »

You know that we hear people calling Trump a dictator, time and time again.

Who? People in this thread? Randos off twitter?

Or are you confusing discussion of his dictatorial desires with claims that he is an actual dictator? There's a big difference.

Leroy42

hotmail.com wrote: »

People can't wait to adjudge this as dictatorial. It's part of the hysteria around Trump that we've seen.

Britain had no election for 8 years because of WW I and 10 years because of WW II.

Hotmail, do you understand what a dictator is and how they usually come to absolute power?

There are usually laws their to stop them doing what they plan to do, until such time as they change the law or ignore it and get away with it.

It was common practice (which I accept isn't the law) that candidates publish their tax returns. He didn't.

It was common practice (which I accept isn't the law) that candidates put any investments into blinds trusts. He didn't.

It was common practice (which I accept isn't the law) that candidates don't hire their family, he found a way around that by not paying Ivanka.

It was illegal for a sitting POTUS to bribe a foreign country to investigate a US citizen, but the GOP stuck by him with the line the "I'm sure now he has learnt his lesson!"

Federal officers are not supposed to be unmarked and use unmarked vehicles to detain citizens, yet it is happening in Portland.

He may be stopped for doing this, but only because the system in place are robust enough.

hotmail.com

Overheal wrote: »

Who is we, and who mentioned it on this thread before post #192, which was you?

The point I was making was the usual over reaction and often hysteria to anything Trump does. This feeds the monster.

hotmail.com

Leroy42 wrote: »

Hotmail, do you understand what a dictator is and how they usually come to absolute power?

There are usually laws their to stop them doing what they plan to do, until such time as they change the law or ignore it and get away with it.

It was common practice (which I accept isn't the law) that candidates publish their tax returns. He didn't.

It was common practice (which I accept isn't the law) that candidates put any investments into blinds trusts. He didn't.

It was common practice (which I accept isn't the law) that candidates don't hire their family, he found a way around that by not paying Ivanka.

It was illegal for a sitting POTUS to bribe a foreign country to investigate a US citizen, but the GOP stuck by him with the line the "I'm sure now he has learnt his lesson!"

Federal officers are not supposed to be unmarked and use unmarked vehicles to detain citizens, yet it is happening in Portland.

He may be stopped for doing this, but only because the system in place are robust enough.

None of them things suggest absolute power. Perhaps you should revise despots.

The public knew he didn't declare the stuff about his tax returns etc. They didn't care about that it seems.

mcmoustache

hotmail.com wrote: »

Does it matter anyway? Almost half of Americans don't even vote.

They can't see a difference between the two parties.

Well, a President's state of mind does matter. Not to you obviously, and that's your right, but big decisions get made around the world at political levels based on the intents of national leaders. I'm not sure what low voter turnout or their ignorance has to do with all that.

Overheal

hotmail.com wrote: »

The point I was making was the usual over reaction and often hysteria to anything Trump does. This feeds the monster.

The only monster here is your strawman. Nobody in this thread, and indeed even in part 1 (this is the only example I found even tangentially suggesting such) of this thread, nobody made this argument, yet you act like this is a widespread thing that bears consternation here. Nobody here, in this forum, is championing the arguments you are claiming is 'the usual reaction and often hysteria.'

Do you have a compelling, recent body of evidence suggesting anyone worth critiquing has called Trump a dictator? Hopefully you aren't just freaking out about people in the youtube comments.

Muahahaha

Overheal wrote: »

Yep, he tested negative as a precondition for attending the rally (secret service and VIPs were all tested, his was negative at the time), and then, 12 days later on July 2nd he was checked into hospital for Covid-19.

edit: he had tested positive on June 29 and admitted to hospital on July 2nd, https://www.foxnews.com/politics/herman-cain-hospitalized-after-testing-postive-for-coronavirus

Thats sad about Hermain Cain. But it also shows the consequences of the gung ho Republican attitudes towards this virus thinking that it cant get them.

I doubt we will hear any mention from Trump about this in the context of Cain attending his Tulsa rally, testing negative before and then positive soon after it. Even though Cain was there to support Trump himself. And right about now the Trump campaign will be digging up the legal disclaimer Cain and his family signed to indemnify the Trump campaign from legal action if any attendees catch the virus. Thats all the Trump campaign will care about, not that he is dead. He's just another useful idiot to them, completely disposable. Its sad that Cain and his family got sucked into the Trump rhetoric, had he stayed at home as per medical advice then he might be alive right now.

hotmail.com

hotmail.com wrote: »

The point I was making was the usual over reaction and often hysteria to anything Trump does. This feeds the monster.

In fairness, you seem to just want to rile people. The discussion was around further questionable and his growing desperation.

And while the dems are far further right than most Europeans. They're pretty clearly different to the GOP. Some key examples include pro-choice, pro lgbt rights, pro more affordable healthcare. On top of that, there's a growing bloc in party that are more left wing, that simply could not exist in GOP.

Timberrrrrrrr

hotmail.com wrote: »

The point I was making was the usual over reaction and often hysteria to anything Trump does. This feeds the monster.

Can you show a sample or two of this happening in this thread?

hotmail.com

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Can you show a sample or two of this happening in this thread?

Oh so I'm supposed to believe now that all comments about Trump are calm, reasoned and proportionate?

hotmail.com

hotmail.com wrote: »

Oh so I'm supposed to believe now that all comments about Trump are calm, reasoned and proportionate?

In fairness, if you're complaining about something very specific in the thread. You should be able to demonstrate it.

Overheal

hotmail.com wrote: »

Oh so I'm supposed to believe now that all comments about Trump are calm, reasoned and proportionate?

All the comments, where? Here? Twitter? Facebook?

Can you focus on replying to the actual substance of posts here, in the now, rather than making strawman arguments about supposed, 'non-calm, unreasonable and disproportionate' posts that you seem unwilling to point directly to? You clearly would rather make a vague argument against the broad idea of such posts that according to your inference here, theoretically exist, somewhere, purely on the logic that 'not all posts about Trump can be calm, reasoned and proportionate,' rather than actually engaging in the current substantive conversation happening here and now, in this thread, instead of demanding users here engage you in a conversation about phantom arguments that Trump is a dictator that nobody here is making and indeed have not made in at least the past 7 months?

Quin_Dub

To borrow a phrase from a TV Sit-Com.

When people call Trump a Dictator , they are really only adding the "-tator" to be polite.

Leroy42

hotmail.com wrote: »

None of them things suggest absolute power. Perhaps you should revise despots.

The public knew he didn't declare the stuff about his tax returns etc. They didn't care about that it seems.

But taken together and with other things they would.

In most cases, dictators don't say they are dictators at the outset. They move towards it, many believing that only they, if freed from the constant meddling of others, can make everything right.

All of those point to a man that feels that the rules, whether legal of just common practice, does not relate to him.

He has even said that as POTUS, everything he does is by deign of his position presidential and thus above the law. That gives a serious insight into his thinking.

Timberrrrrrrr

Muahahaha wrote: »

Thats sad about Hermain Cain. But it also shows the consequences of the gung ho Republican attitudes towards this virus thinking that it cant get them.

I doubt we will hear any mention from Trump about this in the context of Cain attending his Tulsa rally, testing negative before and then positive soon after it. Even though Cain was there to support Trump himself. And right about now the Trump campaign will be digging up the legal disclaimer Cain and his family signed to indemnify the Trump campaign from legal action if any attendees catch the virus. Thats all the Trump campaign will care about, not that he is dead. He's just another useful idiot to them, completely disposable. Its sad that Cain and his family got sucked into the Trump rhetoric, had he stayed at home as per medical advice then he might be alive right now.

I wonder if any journalist will have the guts to ask him at his next presser

Timberrrrrrrr

hotmail.com wrote: »

Oh so I'm supposed to believe now that all comments about Trump are calm, reasoned and proportionate?

so thats a no? Not even one example?

Overheal

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I wonder if any journalist will have the guts to ask him at his next presser

Are you kidding? It will be the first question today. No guts required in it.

hotmail.com

Overheal wrote: »

All the comments, where? Here? Twitter? Facebook?

Can you focus on replying to the actual substance of posts here, in the now, rather than making strawman arguments about supposed, 'non-calm, unreasonable and disproportionate' posts that you seem unwilling to point directly to? You clearly would rather make a vague argument against the broad idea of such posts that according to your inference here, theoretically exist, somewhere, purely on the logic that 'not all posts about Trump can be calm, reasoned and proportionate,' rather than actually engaging in the current substantive conversation happening here and now, in this thread, instead of demanding users here engage you in a conversation about phantom arguments that Trump is a dictator that nobody here is making and indeed have not made in at least the past 7 months?

Leroy42, the poster, is saying it right now.

Quin_Dub

Another possible reason why Trump is running the "ELECTION FRAUD!!!!" Distraction

There’s A Major Scandal Brewing In Trump’s Kodak Pharmaceutical Award

While Trump has refused to heed calls to invoke the Defense Production Act for the manufacture of PPE and COVID-19 testing supplies, he suddenly gifted Kodak, the camera people, with a $765M loan for a not-yet established division to start producing ingredients for pharmaceuticals.

The Washington Post notes that the lender, U.S. International Development Finance Corporation, or DFC, “normally funds infrastructure and other projects in the developing world. But in an executive order signed in May, President Trump gave DFC new powers under the Defense Production Act to finance domestic health-care manufacturing needed to respond to the coronavirus crisis.”

In his comments about the award, Trump praised the “extraordinary leadership” of Kodak and said they have hired “some of the best people in the world to be taking care of that company and watching that company, watching over it.”

But Trump never said why Kodak, as opposed to any of the already-established pharmaceutical companies in the U.S., will make the best use of our $765 million.

So - On Tuesday , Trump awards Kodak a major loan/contract out of the blue and no one can quite follow why them out of all the other companies already involved in the sapce.

The Kodak share price has been around $2.60 and the typical daily trading volume was between 50k and 200k shares.

However on Monday , the day before the announcement , there were 1.6M shares traded.

The share price today is just shy of $43!!

I wonder who bought all those extra shares and how did they come to buy them the day before a massive Government contract was awarded???

As they say - Cui Bono ?

Muahahaha

holy sh1t that is insider trading on an extreme level, those are overnight profits of 1,600% right there. Will the SEC open an investigation into that?

And whatever happened those Republican senators found to be dumping stocks a couple of months back, think it was something about them knowing a lockdown was coming before everyone else and using that information to mitigate their losses on the markets.

ExMachina1000

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Another possible reason why Trump is running the "ELECTION FRAUD!!!!" Distraction

There’s A Major Scandal Brewing In Trump’s Kodak Pharmaceutical Award



So - On Tuesday , Trump awards Kodak a major loan/contract out of the blue and no one can quite follow why them out of all the other companies already involved in the sapce.

The Kodak share price has been around $2.60 and the typical daily trading volume was between 50k and 200k shares.

However on Monday , the day before the announcement , there were 1.6M shares traded.

The share price today is just shy of $43!!

I wonder who bought all those extra shares and how did they come to buy them the day before a massive Government contract was awarded???

As they say - Cui Bono ?

I bought them. Happens all of the time.

Quin_Dub

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

I bought them. Happens all of the time.

Oh please - The Stock is up 1200% this week and amazingly the volume of traded stock jumped tenfold the day before a huge announcement.

The most shares that had been traded in the stock in the previous month was 200k on the 2nd of July , and then the day before Trumps statement , 1.6M get traded and you think "that happens all the time"?

It could be "just a coincidence" but as someone with a background in statistics , I would describe it as a significant data anomaly that requires detailed further investigation.

ExMachina1000

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Oh please - The Stock is up 1200% this week and amazingly the volume of traded stock jumped tenfold the day before a huge announcement.

The most shares that had been traded in the stock in the previous month was 200k on the 2nd of July , and then the day before Trumps statement , 1.6M get traded and you think "that happens all the time"?

It could be "just a coincidence" but as someone with a background in statistics , I would describe it as a significant data anomaly that requires detailed further investigation.

Donald Rumsfeld and the missing 1 trillion dollars sort of stuff. The plane hit the office which had the filing cabinet where the information was stored

Silentcorner

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Oh please - The Stock is up 1200% this week and amazingly the volume of traded stock jumped tenfold the day before a huge announcement.

The most shares that had been traded in the stock in the previous month was 200k on the 2nd of July , and then the day before Trumps statement , 1.6M get traded and you think "that happens all the time"?

It could be "just a coincidence" but as someone with a background in statistics , I would describe it as a significant data anomaly that requires detailed further investigation.

It was the Russians!!!

Overheal

hotmail.com wrote: »

Leroy42, the poster, is saying it right now.

Solely because you brought it up. Talk about a self-fulfilling strawman much. Clearly you've come in here solely with the purpose to conjure your own battle, looking for people to take the position you are itching to fight. Personally, I'm disinterested in it - and going off other comments a plurality of other contributors are as well. There's plenty to discuss even just today with the 32.9% negative GDP and Herman Cain's death that we don't IMO need to conjure an argument of 'Trump is not a dictator - change my mind' - which you appear to be doing so in bad faith. But heck if you and Leroy want to mutually hash the topic out who am I to judge, I just wish you'd stop pretending that "Trump is a dictator" posts are some widespread plague on here. It's boring and disproven.

Overheal

Muahahaha wrote: »

holy sh1t that is insider trading on an extreme level, those are overnight profits of 1,600% right there. Will the SEC open an investigation into that?

And whatever happened those Republican senators found to be dumping stocks a couple of months back, think it was something about them knowing a lockdown was coming before everyone else and using that information to mitigate their losses on the markets.

This just brings those insider trading scandals back into the fore, whereas they dropped off the radar months ago probably because Trump something-something.

Republicans would be well advised to join the House in blocking this, it makes them look crooked as hell if not.

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Donald Rumsfeld and the missing 1 trillion dollars sort of stuff. The plane hit the office which had the filing cabinet where the information was stored

This is medical PPE not DOD failing to disclose what was on the top-secret ledgers type stuff. Not that I'm disinterested in what the money was used on but it belongs here as discussion tbh.

mcmoustache

Muahahaha wrote: »

Thats sad about Hermain Cain. But it also shows the consequences of the gung ho Republican attitudes towards this virus thinking that it cant get them.

It shows that this false reality that they live in is all well and good when it comes to more abstract stuff like economic policy or environmental policy but death by covid is more concrete. You don't have wait around for years and it's quite easy to tell whether or not someone is actually dead.

The problem here is that a large proportion of the US republican party have gone completely anti-science whenever it disagrees with what they want to believe. They make it their reality. Want to believe that green policy is a soros conspiracy? Sure, go ahead. It's not like you'll ever figure out that it's a pile of ****e.

Believing that covid is a hoax, is another matter entirely. Want to believe that covid's a hoax? Sure, go ahead. Your parents are dead now and you're on a ventilator. Congratulations. Here's the bill.

Trump didn't cause this. It's been going on a while but now people have lost so much touch with reality that many still think that social distancing is unnecessary and that hydroxychloroquine is the cure despite all the people dropping dead around them.

I don't know what it's going to take for people to cop on.

Overheal

Biden became a prophet, once derided.

https://twitter.com/BadFoxGraphics/status/1288830234507321344?s=20

And Trump's PAC in April...

https://twitter.com/AmericaFirstPAC/status/1255161789869969410?s=20

:rolleyes:

Meanwhile Obama spoke less than an hour ago at Lewis' Funeral where he fired shots at Trump without naming him. #classact

President Barack Obama wrote:

Even as we sit here, there are those in power who are doing their darnedest to discourage people from voting by closing polling locations and targeting minorities and students with restrictive I.D. Laws and attacking our voting rights with surgical precision, even undermining the postal service in the run-up to an election that’s going to be dependent on mail-in ballots, so people don’t get sick.

He also was highly critical of police brutality, which received loud applause.

Pompeo is in a Senate hearing today where he fueled this Delay-The-Election nonsense for Trump: https://www.mediaite.com/donald-trump/watch-pompeo-refuses-to-say-if-trump-can-move-election-date-says-ag-barr-will-determine/

Here is the hearing, which wrapped up earlier today and flew under the radar in deference to John Lewis' funeral:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xOJHria254

As it is, republican blue-check twitter excoriated Trump's suggestion to delay the election.

In other news, Michael Flynn's case is still on the books, and will be re-heard by the full bench of the DC circuit.

relax carry on

hotmail.com wrote: »

But he can't is the point. Story over. Just because an election is delayed doesn't make him a dictator anyway.

Then what is the point of him.saying it? Does it bother you in anyway that someone holding the office of POTUS acts in this manner? Remember it's not just one act or statement that makes a dictator. Trumps cumulative effect is growing.