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All Ireland Senior Hurling Championship (Liam Mccarthy Cup) 2020
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I managed to track down the number of registered teams for 2009Boom__Boom wrote: »Number of registered teams in each county 2019
Underage Hurling Underage Football Adult Hurling Adult Football Under 20 Hurling Under 20 Football Underage Total Adult Total Under 20 Total Total
Cork 950 1091 217 255 99 116 2041 472 215 2728
Dublin 912 1137 113 186 21 25 2049 299 46 2394
Tipperary 544 511 120 74 55 45 1055 194 100 1349
Galway 401 382 105 102 38 40 783 207 78 1068
Meath 232 590 43 110 15 41 822 153 56 1031
Kildare 272 570 27 94 12 36 842 121 48 1011
Limerick 354 366 85 60 37 34 720 145 71 936
Waterford 395 385 76 56 4 3 780 132 7 919
Wexford 294 291 93 79 37 38 585 172 75 832
Clare 351 259 70 52 32 22 610 122 54 786
Kerry 132 468 23 113 9 40 600 136 49 785
Kilkenny 319 202 86 27 36 4 521 113 40 674
Mayo 56 469 6 84 3 38 525 90 41 656
Donegal 85 382 10 79 8 36 467 89 44 600
Louth 73 374 6 73 0 21 447 79 21 547
Tyrone 33 339 5 96 1 26 372 101 27 500
Antrim 165 188 47 62 9 20 353 109 29 491
Down 71 289 19 83 7 13 360 102 20 482
Laois 139 196 52 64 13 17 335 116 30 481
Offaly 144 142 42 56 14 13 286 98 27 411
Westmeath 82 202 32 59 10 17 284 91 27 402
Wicklow 89 206 21 67 1 14 295 88 15 398
Cavan 26 257 2 78 0 34 283 80 34 397
Armagh 56 231 8 66 2 24 287 74 26 387
Derry 68 208 13 66 6 20 276 79 26 381
Roscommon 46 201 13 56 5 21 247 69 26 342
Monaghan 27 225 8 64 0 6 252 72 6 330
Carlow 83 105 20 43 8 15 188 63 23 274
Sligo 55 153 7 37 1 17 208 44 18 270
Longford 24 164 4 33 0 15 188 37 15 240
Fermanagh 30 148 2 42 1 11 178 44 12 234
Leitrim 10 105 4 47 0 12 115 51 12 178
6518 10836 1379 2463 484 834 17354 3842 1318 22514
Number of registered teams in each county 2009
Underage Hurling Underage Football Adult Hurling Adult Football Under 21 Hurling Under 21 Football Underage Total Adult Total Under 21 Total Total
Cork 771 884 237 288 97 128 1655 525 225 2405
Dublin 507 716 108 173 22 29 1223 281 51 1555
Tipperary 457 446 136 92 57 46 903 228 103 1234
Limerick 386 399 102 78 39 35 785 180 74 1039
Galway 335 385 113 116 41 41 720 229 82 1031
Wexford 300 291 99 89 37 39 591 188 76 855
Kerry 134 456 26 128 8 47 590 154 55 799
Meath 128 428 41 117 17 45 556 158 62 776
Antrim 286 295 50 71 13 19 581 121 32 734
Kilkenny 293 235 86 31 36 17 528 117 53 698
Waterford 272 222 76 63 25 24 494 139 49 682
Kildare 133 353 29 102 6 28 486 131 34 651
Clare 243 211 67 59 31 24 454 126 55 635
Tyrone 49 400 6 99 1 35 449 105 36 590
Mayo 51 365 9 85 4 41 416 94 45 555
Donegal 76 331 9 84 1 35 407 93 36 536
Louth 66 323 7 79 1 24 389 86 25 500
Down 89 245 22 91 1 10 334 113 11 458
Laois 118 150 62 71 12 17 268 133 29 430
Armagh 56 245 9 78 1 30 301 87 31 419
Wicklow 104 201 25 75 1 1 305 100 2 407
Cavan 12 242 3 89 0 32 254 92 32 378
Westmeath 66 152 33 65 12 23 218 98 35 351
Derry 44 217 14 71 1 1 261 85 2 348
Offaly 103 93 51 61 11 12 196 112 23 331
Monaghan 26 199 12 66 1 17 225 78 18 321
Carlow 79 117 18 47 8 14 196 65 22 283
Roscommon 38 128 15 61 5 26 166 76 31 273
Sligo 46 150 8 46 1 14 196 54 15 265
Leitrim 16 113 5 60 0 15 129 65 15 209
Longford 16 95 4 52 1 25 111 56 26 193
Fermanagh 23 101 3 42 1 9 124 45 10 179
5323 9188 1485 2729 492 903 14511 4214 1395 20120
Change in number of registered teams in each county between 2009 and 2019
Underage Hurling Underage Football Adult Hurling Adult Football Under 20 Hurling Under 20 Football Underage Total Adult Total Under 20 Total Total
Dublin 405 421 5 13 -1 -4 826 18 -5 839
Kildare 139 217 -2 -8 6 8 356 -10 14 360
Cork 179 207 -20 -33 2 -12 386 -53 -10 323
Meath 104 162 2 -7 -2 -4 266 -5 -6 255
Waterford 123 163 0 -7 -21 -21 286 -7 -42 237
Clare 108 48 3 -7 1 -2 156 -4 -1 151
Tipperary 87 65 -16 -18 -2 -1 152 -34 -3 115
Mayo 5 104 -3 -1 -1 -3 109 -4 -4 101
Offaly 41 49 -9 -5 3 1 90 -14 4 80
Roscommon 8 73 -2 -5 0 -5 81 -7 -5 69
Donegal 9 51 1 -5 7 1 60 -4 8 64
Fermanagh 7 47 -1 0 0 2 54 -1 2 55
Laois 21 46 -10 -7 1 0 67 -17 1 51
Westmeath 16 50 -1 -6 -2 -6 66 -7 -8 51
Longford 8 69 0 -19 -1 -10 77 -19 -11 47
Louth 7 51 -1 -6 -1 -3 58 -7 -4 47
Galway 66 -3 -8 -14 -3 -1 63 -22 -4 37
Derry 24 -9 -1 -5 5 19 15 -6 24 33
Down -18 44 -3 -8 6 3 26 -11 9 24
Cavan 14 15 -1 -11 0 2 29 -12 2 19
Monaghan 1 26 -4 -2 -1 -11 27 -6 -12 9
Sligo 9 3 -1 -9 0 3 12 -10 3 5
Carlow 4 -12 2 -4 0 1 -8 -2 1 -9
Wicklow -15 5 -4 -8 0 13 -10 -12 13 -9
Kerry -2 12 -3 -15 1 -7 10 -18 -6 -14
Wexford -6 0 -6 -10 0 -1 -6 -16 -1 -23
Kilkenny 26 -33 0 -4 0 -13 -7 -4 -13 -24
Leitrim -6 -8 -1 -13 0 -3 -14 -14 -3 -31
Armagh 0 -14 -1 -12 1 -6 -14 -13 -5 -32
Tyrone -16 -61 -1 -3 0 -9 -77 -4 -9 -90
Limerick -32 -33 -17 -18 -2 -1 -65 -35 -3 -103
Antrim -121 -107 -3 -9 -4 1 -228 -12 -3 -243
1195 1648 -106 -266 -8 -69 2843 -372 -77 2394
Change in number of registered football teams in each county between 2009 and 2019
Underage Football Adult Football Under 20 Football Total
Dublin 421 13 -4 430
Kildare 217 -8 8 217
Cork 207 -33 -12 162
Meath 162 -7 -4 151
Waterford 163 -7 -21 135
Mayo 104 -1 -3 100
Roscommon 73 -5 -5 63
Fermanagh 47 0 2 49
Donegal 51 -5 1 47
Tipperary 65 -18 -1 46
Offaly 49 -5 1 45
Louth 51 -6 -3 42
Longford 69 -19 -10 40
Clare 48 -7 -2 39
Down 44 -8 3 39
Laois 46 -7 0 39
Westmeath 50 -6 -6 38
Monaghan 26 -2 -11 13
Wicklow 5 -8 13 10
Cavan 15 -11 2 6
Derry -9 -5 19 5
Sligo 3 -9 3 -3
Kerry 12 -15 -7 -10
Wexford 0 -10 -1 -11
Carlow -12 -4 1 -15
Galway -3 -14 -1 -18
Leitrim -8 -13 -3 -24
Armagh -14 -12 -6 -32
Kilkenny -33 -4 -13 -50
Limerick -33 -18 -1 -52
Tyrone -61 -3 -9 -73
Antrim -107 -9 1 -115
1648 -266 -69 1313
Change in number of registered hurling teams in each county between 2009 and 2019
Underage Hurling Adult Hurling Under 20 Hurling Total
Dublin 405 5 -1 409
Cork 179 -20 2 161
Kildare 139 -2 6 143
Clare 108 3 1 112
Meath 104 2 -2 104
Waterford 123 0 -21 102
Tipperary 87 -16 -2 69
Galway 66 -8 -3 55
Offaly 41 -9 3 35
Derry 24 -1 5 28
Kilkenny 26 0 0 26
Donegal 9 1 7 17
Cavan 14 -1 0 13
Westmeath 16 -1 -2 13
Laois 21 -10 1 12
Sligo 9 -1 0 8
Longford 8 0 -1 7
Carlow 4 2 0 6
Fermanagh 7 -1 0 6
Roscommon 8 -2 0 6
Louth 7 -1 -1 5
Mayo 5 -3 -1 1
Armagh 0 -1 1 0
Kerry -2 -3 1 -4
Monaghan 1 -4 -1 -4
Leitrim -6 -1 0 -7
Wexford -6 -6 0 -12
Down -18 -3 6 -15
Tyrone -16 -1 0 -17
Wicklow -15 -4 0 -19
Limerick -32 -17 -2 -51
Antrim -121 -3 -4 -128
1195 -106 -8 1081Boom__Boom wrote: »Number of registered hurling teams 2019
Underage Adult Under 21 Total
Cork 950 217 99 1266
Dublin 912 113 21 1046
Tipperary 544 120 55 719
Galway 401 105 38 544
Limerick 354 85 37 476
Waterford 395 76 4 475
Clare 351 70 32 453
Kilkenny 319 86 36 441
Wexford 294 93 37 424
Kildare 272 27 12 311
Meath 232 43 15 290
Antrim 165 47 9 221
Laois 139 52 13 204
Offaly 144 42 14 200
Kerry 132 23 9 164
Westmeath 82 32 10 124
Carlow 83 20 8 111
Wicklow 89 21 1 111
Donegal 85 10 8 103
Down 71 19 7 97
Derry 68 13 6 87
Louth 73 6 0 79
Armagh 56 8 2 66
Mayo 56 6 3 65
Roscommon 46 13 5 64
Sligo 55 7 1 63
Tyrone 33 5 1 39
Monaghan 27 8 0 35
Fermanagh 30 2 1 33
Cavan 26 2 0 28
Longford 24 4 0 28
Leitrim 10 4 0 14
The data for the registered number of teams was taken from the GAA financial accounts.
I don't think the switch between the U21 and U20 age grade would have all that significant a factor in the number of teams registered.
The growth in numbers in Dublin is the key fact.
The breakdown of the increased numbers should have every other serious hurling county worried - an increase of 405 underage hurling teams and an increase in the number of adult hurling teams by just 5, says to me that the vast bulk of Dublin's underage swell in playing numbers hasn't fed through to adult level at all yet.
A related stat from Dublin's annual report last week means that for every 100 hurlers who were between U8 and U12 in 2008, there are now 219 hurlers across those same U8 to U12 age grades.
Combine those numbers with all the other advantages Dublin have, I think it's only a matter of time before Dublin establish themselves as a top hurling county.
Limerick and Antrim both losing so many clubs is a bit of a puzzler to me - I'd have though both would have been in the positive side of the ledger.0 -
Boom__Boom wrote: »I managed to track down the number of registered teams for 2009
The growth in numbers in Dublin is the key fact.
The breakdown of the increased numbers should have every other serious hurling county worried - an increase of 405 underage hurling teams and an increase in the number of adult hurling teams by just 5, says to me that the vast bulk of Dublin's underage swell in playing numbers hasn't fed through to adult level at all yet.
A related stat from Dublin's annual report last week means that for every 100 hurlers who were between U8 and U12 in 2008, there are now 219 hurlers across those same U8 to U12 age grades.
Combine those numbers with all the other advantages Dublin have, I think it's only a matter of time before Dublin establish themselves as a top hurling county.
Limerick and Antrim both losing so many clubs is a bit of a puzzler to me - I'd have though both would have been in the positive side of the ledger.
You would imagine the Limerick one will turn round soon. I don't think there were many clubs disbanded just a few that didn't have a team to field or amalgamated temporarily so the clubs are there when the next generation of kids pick the Limerick hurlers over Munster rugby0 -
Given the population and structures and funds in Dublin - it is only a matter of time.Boom__Boom wrote: »I managed to track down the number of registered teams for 2009
The growth in numbers in Dublin is the key fact.
The breakdown of the increased numbers should have every other serious hurling county worried - an increase of 405 underage hurling teams and an increase in the number of adult hurling teams by just 5, says to me that the vast bulk of Dublin's underage swell in playing numbers hasn't fed through to adult level at all yet.
A related stat from Dublin's annual report last week means that for every 100 hurlers who were between U8 and U12 in 2008, there are now 219 hurlers across those same U8 to U12 age grades.
Combine those numbers with all the other advantages Dublin have, I think it's only a matter of time before Dublin establish themselves as a top hurling county.
Limerick and Antrim both losing so many clubs is a bit of a puzzler to me - I'd have though both would have been in the positive side of the ledger.
Great post.0 -
Boom__Boom wrote: »I managed to track down the number of registered teams for 2009
The growth in numbers in Dublin is the key fact.
The breakdown of the increased numbers should have every other serious hurling county worried - an increase of 405 underage hurling teams and an increase in the number of adult hurling teams by just 5, says to me that the vast bulk of Dublin's underage swell in playing numbers hasn't fed through to adult level at all yet.
A related stat from Dublin's annual report last week means that for every 100 hurlers who were between U8 and U12 in 2008, there are now 219 hurlers across those same U8 to U12 age grades.
Combine those numbers with all the other advantages Dublin have, I think it's only a matter of time before Dublin establish themselves as a top hurling county.
Limerick and Antrim both losing so many clubs is a bit of a puzzler to me - I'd have though both would have been in the positive side of the ledger.
Great post, thanks for it. Can you clarify if it's clubs or teams though?
Limerick was massively hit by the last recession. Iirc correctly several clubs in West Limerick had very few underage players for years after it due to emigration so I imagine several underage sides simply weren't fielded for years. You'd hope the drop off has stabilised now but even if you look at how Limerick's population has been going, places in Clare like Cratloe, Parteen etc are benefitting from their proximity to the city whereas places like Abbeyfeale still seem to be in the doldrums a bit.0 -
[Deleted User] wrote: »Great post, thanks for it. Can you clarify if it's clubs or teams though?
Limerick was massively hit by the last recession. Iirc correctly several clubs in West Limerick had very few underage players for years after it due to emigration so I imagine several underage sides simply weren't fielded for years. You'd hope the drop off has stabilised now but even if you look at how Limerick's population has been going, places in Clare like Cratloe, Parteen etc are benefitting from their proximity to the city whereas places like Abbeyfeale still seem to be in the doldrums a bit.
I can't think of any clubs except LIT Sarsfields that actually folded so I would say you are right0 -
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breezy1985 wrote: »I can't think of any clubs except LIT Sarsfields that actually folded so I would say you are right
It's actually a bigger issue for the GAA generally than just Limerick. There is an east/west divide in the sport. Loads of clubs west of the Shannon with no members, loads of clubs east of it with "too" many (and not enough teams or pitches to go around). Heard an interesting talk by the GAA president about it a few years back.
In a Limerick context, na Piarsaigh possibly has more members than the entire of Doon's population, to take the recent county final as an example. Certainly na Piarsaigh alone has a bigger population base to draw from than most towns in the county.
There's no obvious solution either. Cuala being able to hire Eddie Brennan is great for the club but you'd have to wonder how any club outside of the big, big clubs can expect to compete with them? Iirc when Cuala played Ballyea in the Club final a few years back the stat was Cuala had more players at u10 level than Ballyea have in total. Do we break up superclubs like Cuala and na Piarsaigh or what?0 -
Boom__Boom wrote: »I managed to track down the number of registered teams for 2009
The growth in numbers in Dublin is the key fact.
The breakdown of the increased numbers should have every other serious hurling county worried - an increase of 405 underage hurling teams and an increase in the number of adult hurling teams by just 5, says to me that the vast bulk of Dublin's underage swell in playing numbers hasn't fed through to adult level at all yet.
A related stat from Dublin's annual report last week means that for every 100 hurlers who were between U8 and U12 in 2008, there are now 219 hurlers across those same U8 to U12 age grades.
Combine those numbers with all the other advantages Dublin have, I think it's only a matter of time before Dublin establish themselves as a top hurling county.
Limerick and Antrim both losing so many clubs is a bit of a puzzler to me - I'd have though both would have been in the positive side of the ledger.
You realise that the vast majority of those teams are in for dual clubs? Dublin is not like Cork, Galway or Clare where theres a geographical divide within the county between football and hurling. Dublin is football first across the county. Its the same at schools level.
A county thats won only one provincial title and league title since World War 2 is now going to be a top county, the level of hysterical rámeis being posted at this stage is embarrasing0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Great post, thanks for it. Can you clarify if it's clubs or teams though?
Limerick was massively hit by the last recession. Iirc correctly several clubs in West Limerick had very few underage players for years after it due to emigration so I imagine several underage sides simply weren't fielded for years. You'd hope the drop off has stabilised now but even if you look at how Limerick's population has been going, places in Clare like Cratloe, Parteen etc are benefitting from their proximity to the city whereas places like Abbeyfeale still seem to be in the doldrums a bit.
Registered teams is what it said in the accounts and based on the numbers in Kerry I'd be very confident that this is what it is as opposed to clubs.
Yeah I was wondering if 2008 and the recession was a factor on the numbers - from what I saw Dublin bounced back the quickest especially compared to rural areas. It would be interesting to see the figures for pre and post boom-time for counties.
It would also be interesting to see what the participation rates are versus population in a county. The thing is that even with all their growth at underage I wouldn't be surprised if Dublin is still down the bottom in terms of number of players versus population. The doomsday scenario is probably Dublin achieving the average rate of participation for all other counties given it's raw population numbers. Dublin and Cork are broadly similar in terms of registered teams now yet Dublin has 2 and a half times the population of Cork. If Dublin had the same participation rate as Cork they would have something like 6000 registered teams.
It would also be interesting to see figures for camogie and ladies football, especially in terms of the last 10/20/30 years and how much they have grown.0 -
Boom__Boom wrote: »Registered teams is what it said in the accounts and based on the numbers in Kerry I'd be very confident that this is what it is as opposed to clubs.
Yeah I was wondering if 2008 and the recession was a factor on the numbers - from what I saw Dublin bounced back the quickest especially compared to rural areas. It would be interesting to see the figures for pre and post boom-time for counties.
It would also be interesting to see what the participation rates are versus population in a county. The thing is that even with all their growth at underage I wouldn't be surprised if Dublin is still down the bottom in terms of number of players versus population. The doomsday scenario is probably Dublin achieving the average rate of participation for all other counties given it's raw population numbers. Dublin and Cork are broadly similar in terms of registered teams now yet Dublin has 2 and a half times the population of Cork. If Dublin had the same participation rate as Cork they would have something like 6000 registered teams.
It would also be interesting to see figures for camogie and ladies football, especially in terms of the last 10/20/30 years and how much they have grown.
there's a lot more competing interests in Dublin though. I have relations who play hurling underage in a Dublin club, and even though they are mad into hurling the club as an organisation doesn't really care for it and is pushing them towards football. If push came to shove and they are "forced" to give up hurling, they'll gravitate towards soccer and probably drop out of the GAA scene entirely. They are less than impressed with how the club approaches hurling, even at their young age.
I wonder is this replicated in other clubs in Dublin where the real interest is still football and hurling sides are fielded but not really "cared for"?
If Dublin do to hurling what they've done to football it's a disaster all round anyhow (not that I give a damn about football tbh).0 -
You realise that the vast majority of those teams are in for dual clubs? Dublin is not like Cork, Galway or Clare where theres a geographical divide within the county between football and hurling. Dublin is football first across the county. Its the same at schools level.
A county thats won only one provincial title and league title since World War 2 is now going to be a top county, the level of hysterical rámeis being posted at this stage is embarrasing
Dublin U21 hurlers have won 4 Leinster titles since 2007. In the 43 years prior to 2007 they had won 2.
Dublin minor hurlers have won 5 Leinster titles since 2007. In the 79 years prior to 2007 they had won 11.
In terms of club All-Irelands Dublin have won 3 Leinster titles - one in 79/80 and two in 16/17 and 17/18. Cuala went on to win the All-Ireland both years.
I'm not saying that Dublin are going to win the All-Ireland next year or the year after but looking at the numbers I fail to see how Dublin won't eventually move up the rankings.
Dublin's annual report had a stat about the participation rate at Go Games level (U8 to U12) In 2008 for every 100 boys, 64 played Hurling, and in 2020 the number was 89.
At (U13-U16) level there were 320 Football and 228 Hurling teams registered in 2020. There was an increase of 104 extra teams in Football and 99 in Hurling versus 2008. A 50% increase in football teams and a 75% increase in hurling teams at this age range.
If you don't think Dublin are going to continue to make progress as a hurling county explain to me how a significant increase in the number of players receiving better standards of coaching won't lead to improved levels at the senior grade down the line.0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »there's a lot more competing interests in Dublin though. I have relations who play hurling underage in a Dublin club, and even though they are mad into hurling the club as an organisation doesn't really care for it and is pushing them towards football. If push came to shove and they are "forced" to give up hurling, they'll gravitate towards soccer and probably drop out of the GAA scene entirely. They are less than impressed with how the club approaches hurling, even at their young age.
I wonder is this replicated in other clubs in Dublin where the real interest is still football and hurling sides are fielded but not really "cared for"?
If Dublin do to hurling what they've done to football it's a disaster all round anyhow (not that I give a damn about football tbh).
My favourite thing in Dublin is where a club will both neglect hurling AND go out of their way to suppress a small, new, hurling-only club that they think might actually attract players. takes a special brand of hoors to do the likes of that, but here we are.
Anyway they failed.
On a separate note the growth of super clubs like Cuala, Boden and Kilmacud is very bad for the sport in the county in the sense of the extent of their reach as clubs. But to the credit of all three of those clubs, they are very committed to hurling, and put resources into it and take it seriously, so at least we know the sport should have a strong future in the county.0 -
[Deleted User] wrote: »It's actually a bigger issue for the GAA generally than just Limerick. There is an east/west divide in the sport. Loads of clubs west of the Shannon with no members, loads of clubs east of it with "too" many (and not enough teams or pitches to go around). Heard an interesting talk by the GAA president about it a few years back.
In a Limerick context, na Piarsaigh possibly has more members than the entire of Doon's population, to take the recent county final as an example. Certainly na Piarsaigh alone has a bigger population base to draw from than most towns in the county.
There's no obvious solution either. Cuala being able to hire Eddie Brennan is great for the club but you'd have to wonder how any club outside of the big, big clubs can expect to compete with them? Iirc when Cuala played Ballyea in the Club final a few years back the stat was Cuala had more players at u10 level than Ballyea have in total. Do we break up superclubs like Cuala and na Piarsaigh or what?
The population of NaP is potentially the entirety of North Limerick which is about 35k squashed into a small area. Of course there are 2 rugby and I think 5 soccer teams to compete with which towns and villages don't have and added to that the transient nature of a city suburb means not everyone will care or even know NaP exists in those areas.
Population and money have been and probably always will be big factors and teams like NaP, Cuala and the Dublin footballs show what happens when you can effectively mobilize them.
You can't break them up though because you cant force people to support a team0 -
Boom__Boom wrote: »Dublin U21 hurlers have won 4 Leinster titles since 2007. In the 43 years prior to 2007 they had won 2.
Dublin minor hurlers have won 5 Leinster titles since 2007. In the 79 years prior to 2007 they had won 11.
In terms of club All-Irelands Dublin have won 3 Leinster titles - one in 79/80 and two in 16/17 and 17/18. Cuala went on to win the All-Ireland both years.
I'm not saying that Dublin are going to win the All-Ireland next year or the year after but looking at the numbers I fail to see how Dublin won't eventually move up the rankings.
Dublin's annual report had a stat about the participation rate at Go Games level (U8 to U12) In 2008 for every 100 boys, 64 played Hurling, and in 2020 the number was 89.
At (U13-U16) level there were 320 Football and 228 Hurling teams registered in 2020. There was an increase of 104 extra teams in Football and 99 in Hurling versus 2008. A 50% increase in football teams and a 75% increase in hurling teams at this age range.
If you don't think Dublin are going to continue to make progress as a hurling county explain to me how a significant increase in the number of players receiving better standards of coaching won't lead to improved levels at the senior grade down the line.
I'll spell it out for those slow on the uptake, most hurlers in Dublin are dual code players and the best of them will be pushed towards football at club and county level.
Dublin had a high water mark in 2013 and have regressed significantly since then. I'd like to believe we'll be challenging for titles because we should, we have the player base, but we won't. We dont have the grass roots culture to make good hurlers into great ones and our elite athletes will all graduate to playing ball.
You might have missed the thread title. Have a read of it. Theres only one standard for top tier counties, Senior Provincial and All Ireland titles.0 -
I'll spell it out for those slow on the uptake, most hurlers in Dublin are dual code players and the best of them will be pushed towards football at club and county level.
Dublin had a high water mark in 2013 and have regressed significantly since then. I'd like to believe we'll be challenging for titles because we should, we have the player base, but we won't. We dont have the grass roots culture to make good hurlers into great ones and our elite athletes will all graduate to playing ball.
You might have missed the thread title. Have a read of it. Theres only one standard for top tier counties, Senior Provincial and All Ireland titles.
That argument possesses no insight or imagination. It's just a glib and negative response, pointed towards being dismissive of other posters rather than being logical.
Dublin appointed a strategic development officer, have dedicated coaching, hurling, marketing and regional development officers, and 50 coaches of which two thirds would be club based. Some clubs have two. An investment of €19.3 million over five years.
Liam O'Neill famously told the tale of a juvenile coaching session that expected 150 kids - 269 kids showed.
Dublin clubs can expect 150 children born in a locality in a year - O'Neill said. "By contrast, there might be only 250 boys born in the county of Longford in a calendar year," he added.
The grassroots inroads are being made.
Football is on such a surge, driven by Dublin, hurling is adopting it's tactics - the excess of Dublin's super athletes will bleed into hurling - it's only a matter of time before that population pick, financial structures, and money lead to dominance in both codes. It just takes time. All the advantages Dublin possess in every sector will soon take it's toll on the rest of the country - who just can't compete with those population and money numbers.0 -
I'll spell it out for those slow on the uptake, most hurlers in Dublin are dual code players and the best of them will be pushed towards football at club and county level.
Dublin had a high water mark in 2013 and have regressed significantly since then. I'd like to believe we'll be challenging for titles because we should, we have the player base, but we won't. We dont have the grass roots culture to make good hurlers into great ones and our elite athletes will all graduate to playing ball.
You might have missed the thread title. Have a read of it. Theres only one standard for top tier counties, Senior Provincial and All Ireland titles.
You're probably right in what you say, Con o callaghan is the prime example, but, not all good hurlers are good footballers or even interested in football, also it's rare that a player would be good enough to play both codes at county level and generally players would have a preference ( generally which ever one they are more naturally gifted at). At some point with the numbers Dublin have, enough good hurlers will stick with the hurling team to make Dublin one of the contenders at provincial and All Ireland level, but, I don't think they'll ever dominate like the footballers.0 -
Deathknell wrote: »Have to agree. This has become increasingly obvious.
I mentioned this to my Limerick Father that Limerick are a over-physical and Hegarty was a lucky man to have been on the pitch for both the Semi- against Galway and the final when he should have been on yellow before he slapped Stephen Bennett's hand. He is loose with the hurl, and is a fouling machine.
It started with KK 2006. Cody harangued the refs and the GAA for applying the rules and briefed against the intro of a Sin-Bin because he knew it would affect his team dis-proportionally.
All others are following on the only way they could - which is get more and more physical.
Its not a popular opinion, but I think it does a dis-service to the game. Hurling at the end of the day is about skill & speed, there is a defined tackle, so there is no need for the mauling that is going on. People say - LET THE GAME FLOW - but if you ref by the rule book, and that includes steps and throws by the attacking player - then defenders do not have to man-handle them, just track, hook and block.
Hurling is flying, a proper clamp down on the rules, will be painful to start but ultimately to the benefit of the game.
Id say your Limerick father looked at you and said..'Grow up". Hurling is about the physical battle, hard men and hard playing just as much as your speed and skill.0 -
formerlyET wrote: »That argument possesses no insight or imagination. It's just a glib and negative response, pointed towards being dismissive of other posters rather than being logical.
Dublin appointed a strategic development officer, have dedicated coaching, hurling, marketing and regional development officers, and 50 coaches of which two thirds would be club based. Some clubs have two. An investment of €19.3 million over five years.
Liam O'Neill famously told the tale of a juvenile coaching session that expected 150 kids - 269 kids showed.
Dublin clubs can expect 150 children born in a locality in a year - O'Neill said. "By contrast, there might be only 250 boys born in the county of Longford in a calendar year," he added.
The grassroots inroads are being made.
Football is on such a surge, driven by Dublin, hurling is adopting it's tactics - the excess of Dublin's super athletes will bleed into hurling - it's only a matter of time before that population pick, financial structures, and money lead to dominance in both codes. It just takes time. All the advantages Dublin possess in every sector will soon take it's toll on the rest of the country - who just can't compete with those population and money numbers.
So why don't or haven't Cork Dominates.. theyve about 35000 gaa players ,2,000 less than Dublin. Its easy to simplify.0 -
BloodyBill wrote: »So why don't or haven't Cork Dominates.. theyve about 35000 gaa players ,2,000 less than Dublin. Its easy to simplify.
It's very easy to simply. That's why you simplified by just suggesting at playing numbers. Any evidence to go along with that?
You could just look at the success rate - growth - money - trophies in recent times.
In 2014 I think Cork had about 8 - including universities - games development officers.
Dublin have... from p36 on is interesting
https://www.gaa.ie/api/pdfs/image/upload/wehgbiitifzhopzeoepz.pdf
GAA GAMES DEVELOPMENT 2014
2014 ISC € 2014 GAA € 2014 TOTAL €
Games Development
Deployment of Personnel €1,005,339 €2,968,585 €3,973,924
County Projects (incl. Talent
Academies) 0 €1,197,985 €1,197,985
Primary School Initiatives 0 0 0
Exhibition Games (INTO Mini Sevens) 0 €4,349 €4,349
Féile Tournaments 0 €70,376 €70,376
Cumann na mBunscol 0 €68,000 €68,000
Cúl Camps 0 €20,821 €20,821
Educational Projects 0 €28,296 €28,296
Equipment 0 0 0
Other Games Development Projects
(incl. Conference) 0 €451,203 €451,203
Hurling Development
Deployment of Personnel €760,477 €1,298,437 €2,058,914
National & Regional Projects 0 €319,783 €319,783
Hurley & Helmet Scheme 0 €400,000 €400,000
Dublin Games Development
Deployment of Personnel €643,837 €1,400,000 €2,043,837
Projects 0 €30,000 €30,000
Other Development Projects
International 0 €1,089,326 €1,089,326
Referee Development 0 €161,858 €161,858
Total €2,409,653 €9,509,019 €11,918,6720 -
BloodyBill wrote: »So why don't or haven't Cork Dominates.. theyve about 35000 gaa players ,2,000 less than Dublin. Its easy to simplify.
Cork have dominated plenty of times in GAA history and were the last county to do the double and are in a very small club along with Galway of ever having a hope of doing it again in the near future0 -
breezy1985 wrote: »Cork have dominated plenty of times in GAA history and were the last county to do the double and are in a very small club along with Galway of ever having a hope of doing it again in the near future
Cork has no hope of winning the double anytime soon 😊0 -
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U-20 Munster final live on TG4 now0
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BloodyBill wrote: »So why don't or haven't Cork Dominates.. theyve about 35000 gaa players ,2,000 less than Dublin. Its easy to simplify.
Dublin currently have 74 GPOs whereas Cork have 8 GPOs.
Cork have wasted millions of euros and countless hours on the white elephant that is Pairc Ui Chaoimh while Dublin GAA have probably spent a fiver and five minutes on Parnell Park over the last 20 years.
Cork had Frank and his 1950s ideas for decades and a virtual Civil war strikes and all.
Pretty much everything Dublin did right in terms of adminstration,stuctures and organisation Cork did wrong or late.0 -
formerlyET wrote: »That argument possesses no insight or imagination. It's just a glib and negative response, pointed towards being dismissive of other posters rather than being logical.
Dublin appointed a strategic development officer, have dedicated coaching, hurling, marketing and regional development officers, and 50 coaches of which two thirds would be club based. Some clubs have two. An investment of €19.3 million over five years.
Liam O'Neill famously told the tale of a juvenile coaching session that expected 150 kids - 269 kids showed.
Dublin clubs can expect 150 children born in a locality in a year - O'Neill said. "By contrast, there might be only 250 boys born in the county of Longford in a calendar year," he added.
The grassroots inroads are being made.
Football is on such a surge, driven by Dublin, hurling is adopting it's tactics - the excess of Dublin's super athletes will bleed into hurling - it's only a matter of time before that population pick, financial structures, and money lead to dominance in both codes. It just takes time. All the advantages Dublin possess in every sector will soon take it's toll on the rest of the country - who just can't compete with those population and money numbers.
I fully agree. It's absolutely inevitable that Dublin will become a top tier county in hurling, it's only a matter of when. Limerick's Academy shows that resources matter and have helped turn Limerick from under-achievers to All-Ireland winners. Dublin will inevitably do the exact same.0 -
Dublin will be the next team to do the double. They did the Leinster Double in 2013.
I'm going to go to as many hurling matches as possible for the next 10 years. Hopefully it will be longer before dublin take over but you just never know.0 -
Dublin will be the next team to do the double. They did the Leinster Double in 2013.
I'm going to go to as many hurling matches as possible for the next 10 years. Hopefully it will be longer before dublin take over but you just never know.
I'm going to go to as many hurling matches as possible in the next 10 years and the next 10 after that because who wins the All Ireland is not the only thing that matters in hurling0 -
Waterford have confirmed that goalkeeper Stephen O'Keeffe will not be available for the 2021 season.
The 2017 All-Star, who started in goals for their All-Ireland defeat to Limerick earlier this month, has informed Déise manager Liam Cahill of his decision to take a break.
"Stephen O'Keeffe has informed the Waterford management team he is taking some time out and will be unavailable for the 2021 season," a statement read.
"We would like to take this opportunity to thank Stephen who has given fantastic service to Waterford Hurling over the last 10 years."0 -
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Brendan Bugler goes from the Wexford backroom team to Birr manager. Birr thought they had Cheddar in the bag until Laois approached him.0
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Rasputin11 wrote: »Brendan Bugler goes from the Wexford backroom team to Birr manager. Birr thought they had Cheddar in the bag until Laois approached him.
These managers can do the circuit rightly - moving from club to club.0
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