The trashing of our parks and beaches

PhilOssophy

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

How did you “notice” what was in your neighbours green bin?

Bin lid was about 1 inch raised. He doesn't have a dog either btw

PhilOssophy

Mimon wrote: »

Bolded bit is as lame an excuse as you could get. It boils down to personal responsibility for your own rubbish not excuses.

So you picked 1 line out of every post I have made on this, to claim that I'm making excuses for people? In all fairness, I've been trying to propose solutions for this problem throughout this thread. Don't accuse me of making excuses for anybody.

PhilOssophy

whisky_galore wrote: »

I really cannot understand the mindset of anyone that hops into a car and sneaks out to drop rubbish. They obviously can afford to keep a car on the road but can't afford a rubbish collection.

And if they spend a couple of euro driving there, then paying for the bin to be lifted would have been as cheap.

PhilOssophy

spring lane jack wrote: »

The anti everything people would throw a fit over it. They would genuinely prefer to see the place wrecked than allow winos and addicts to buy more drink.

Well that attitude is the perfect example of letting perfect be the enemy of the good. Here's an idea to avoid it though - you can't buy alcohol with the deposit refund. You get a voucher for the shop which takes the refund. Job done.

PhilOssophy

I would also add that even among any group of young lads, I would be willing to bet that there would be 1-2-3 lads who would bring the cans with them if there was a 20-50c value in each of them.
It might help the rest of them focus on their litter too if there's a couple of example setters. All else fails, then someone else makes money on their empties.

Mimon

hmmm wrote: »

These people aren't going to return bottles or cans for 5cents or 20cents or even a euro each. They've too much money already, the point of what they do is to show contempt.

The big difference between Ireland and the rest of Europe is enforcement I think. That's enforcement both by parents, society and the police, along with park rangers in national parks. We have no enforcement over here, teens and young adults have no boundaries and everyone is afraid to tell them to stop doing something.

A bit of education might make a difference because usually in these groups you'll have at least one or two of them who will be embarrassed. A great big sign saying that no-one will pick up your litter after you leave will get through to some of the thickest who think the litter fairy is patrolling beside every stream.

But going back to enforcement - it's not fair on landowners, and it puts those of us who behave responsibly at risk of having places closed to us. Allow landowners to ban wild camping, and then let's put together something (let's call it a "police force") which will enforce laws. You could also beef up the NPWS rangers, but I wouldn't really want them to have to confront possibly aggressive groups - but it'd be a good start for them to ask groups to move on.

Totally agree. Societal enforcement is what is lacking in our society.

I told a kid who threw his McDonalds rubbish in a doorway in Dublin to cop on and respect where he lives.

Had the mother a few minutes later shouting in my face, calling me a scumbag for challenging her little gremlin. Didn't care, these actual scumbags should be challenged. We are too soft on them. German, Swedish, Finnish people would not tolerate this.

Mimon

This thread reminds me of the video of the boys in green abroad doing the pick up for the boys in green song when in Poland for the euros and picking up all their rubbish- where is this spirit when the same lads are back drinking in parks here?

Mimon

PhilOssophy wrote: »

So you picked 1 line out of every post I have made on this, to claim that I'm making excuses for people? In all fairness, I've been trying to propose solutions for this problem throughout this thread. Don't accuse me of making excuses for anybody.

It wasn't a critisism of your point, you were making a total valid one. My point is that there will always be reasons/excuses not to do the right thing here but that's people abdicating their personal responsibility.

Most people on here and including yourself would go out of their way to not litter - I don't particularly like carrying litter for two miles back to the car as there is no bins at an amenity but that's what I will do.

Mimon

Mimon wrote: »

This thread reminds me of the video of the boys in green abroad doing the pick up for the boys in green song when in Poland for the euros and picking up all their rubbish- where is this spirit when the same lads are back drinking in parks here?

We are much nicer - most respectful when we go abroad. The only way to tackle this in the short term is the deposit return scheme plus hiring more sanitation workers. Long term is education in schools, leave no trace ethos, tough waste reduction policies and registered bins like a TV license. This generation have never known frugality as they have been surrounded by a throwaway culture and plastic which is not solely their fault. Next generation may change if we act now.

PhilOssophy

Mimon wrote: »

It wasn't a critisism of your point, you were making a total valid one. My point is that there will always be reasons/excuses not to do the right thing here but that's people abdicating their personal responsibility.

Most people on here and including yourself would go out of their way to not litter - I don't particularly like carrying litter for two miles back to the car as there is no bins at an amenity but that's what I will do.

Irish people don't do personal responsibility. Our courts are full of chancers who tripped or whatever, our roads are full of rule breakers, the only thing Irish people understand is "what is this costing me".

Before people become high and mighty, I know it is not everybody, but its a not insignificant cohort

Thelonious Monk

A bottle scheme would help a little, but there's far more than bottles and cans being left around. Pizza boxes, plastic slurpy drinks containers, fast food wrappers etc, all seen on my jogs around St Anne's of late.
Also this isn't happening just because of the pandemic, although that has worsened it - we are still a disgusting and filthy people any time the weather is nice, as people gather outside. I remember threads on this problem a few years ago because of people gathering at Portobello during sunny weather, and making an absolute mess of the place.
I don't really know what the solution is, I went to a couple of beach cleanups but it's just pointless, there's a never ending tide of rubbish being dumped onto our land and seas.

Pawwed Rig

Mimon wrote: »

This thread reminds me of the video of the boys in green abroad doing the pick up for the boys in green song when in Poland for the euros and picking up all their rubbish- where is this spirit when the same lads are back drinking in parks here?

So you have verified that it is the exact same people that were picking up litter in France that are the ones littering parks here have you?

Maybe just maybe the same guys picking up litter in France are picking up litter here. Whether that is true or not I have no idea but it is just as likely as your ridiculous accusation.

Yes I don't think there's a system that you can put in place that will stop or believe it's not solely these people's fault. There's no excuse for not bringing your rubbish simple as.

Parents need to really drive the point home to their kids how bad it is to litter. My Dad educated me when I was a nipper about it and didn't stand for littering. It's not rocket science.

malinheader

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

A bottle scheme would help a little, but there's far more than bottles and cans being left around. Pizza boxes, plastic slurpy drinks containers, fast food wrappers etc, all seen on my jogs around St Anne's of late.
Also this isn't happening just because of the pandemic, although that has worsened it - we are still a disgusting and filthy people any time the weather is nice, as people gather outside. I remember threads on this problem a few years ago because of people gathering at Portobello during sunny weather, and making an absolute mess of the place.
I don't really know what the solution is, I went to a couple of beach cleanups but it's just pointless, there's a never ending tide of rubbish being dumped onto our land and seas.

Simple answer to all of this. Not to go on to long so here is one, why do we need these massive 12 or 16 inch cardboard boxes to take a pizza home. As I have said its cosmetic advertising and should be met with fines for establishments who churn it out. Slice it and wrap it in paper, end of. If you can't handle this then don't buy it.

Thelonious Monk

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

So you have verified that it is the exact same people that were picking up litter in France that are the ones littering parks here have you?

I thought it was the Greta Thunberg followers who were on the climate change marches, according to this thread?

Pawwed Rig

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I thought it was the Greta Thunberg followers who were on the climate change marches, according to this thread?

Exactly. The Gretta Thunberg boys in green supporters are the scourge of our parks and beaches.

whisky_galore

Mimon wrote: »

This thread reminds me of the video of the boys in green abroad doing the pick up for the boys in green song when in Poland for the euros and picking up all their rubbish- where is this spirit when the same lads are back drinking in parks here?

That was only playacting for 'best supporters in the world' viral videos.
A face that's put on for foreigners.

malinheader

Just happens I just lifted a frozen pizza box that someone ate last night. Can anyone justify why the cardboard is really needed when the frozen pizza is wrapped inside in a plastic bag.Trying to find a solution for Littering and illegal dumping will only work when the totally needless waste packaging is dealt with at the same time.

Pawwed Rig

whisky_galore wrote: »

That was only playacting for 'best supporters in the world' viral videos.
A face that's put on for foreigners.

It wasn't. It was just a few lads having a bit of craic while on holidays.

Mimon

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

So you have verified that it is the exact same people that were picking up litter in France that are the ones littering parks here have you?

Maybe just maybe the same guys picking up litter in France are picking up litter here. Whether that is true or not I have no idea but it is just as likely as your ridiculous accusation.

There were thousands of people there doing the clean up for the boys in green. They are the same demographic as people in the parks so yes it it safe to assume there is a large overlap between both groups. Do you think the fans are all sitting at home?

What ridiculous accusation? A bunch of Irish people abroad were showing their good side by cleaning up when but there were zero people doing this in a similar situation i. e. drinking in the open air back home.

Mimon

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

It wasn't. It was just a few lads having a bit of craic while on holidays.

Yes it is having the craic but it is also fake behaviour that they have not backed up at home.

Pawwed Rig

Mimon wrote: »

There were thousands of people there doing the clean up for the boys in green. They are the same demographic as people in the parks so yes it it safe to assume there is a large overlap between both groups. Do you think the fans are all sitting at home.

Ah the same demographic. Gotcha. What demographic is that then?

whisky_galore

malinheader wrote: »

Just happens I just lifted a frozen pizza box that someone ate last night. Can anyone justify why the cardboard is really needed when the frozen pizza is wrapped inside in a plastic bag.Trying to find a solution for Littering and illegal dumping will only work when the totally needless waste packaging is dealt with at the same time.

You should be asking why the plastic is needed since it's already in a cardboard box.

malinheader

whisky_galore wrote: »

You should be asking why the plastic is needed since it's already in a cardboard box.

Maybe . Every little bits a help. People need to wake up and realise 99% of packaging is not needed apart from catching the eye of the consumer or advertising.
Seen McDonald's advertising that there kids meals doesn't contain plastic toys anymore. No word of the box in the shape of a dog's kennel it comes in.

Thelonious Monk

malinheader wrote: »

Maybe . Every little bits a help. People need to wake up and realise 99% of packaging is not needed apart from catching the eye of the consumer or advertising.
Seen McDonald's advertising that there kids meals doesn't contain plastic toys anymore. No word of the box in the shape of a dog's kennel it comes in.

It's not just the packaging it's the products themselves. How many new types of fizzy drinks do we need in plastic bottles?
We just allow anything and everything onto the market in the name of capitalism. We don't need all the ready meals and soups in plastic containers and the endless amount of products that are put upon us nowadays, we lived without them before. I mean look around supermarket fridges, sliced apples in plastic containers and the likes, it's depressing.
New products should have to pass some kind of environmental committee that decides if they're actually good for society or not.

malinheader

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It's not just the packaging it's the products themselves. How many new types of fizzy drinks do we need in plastic bottles?
We just allow anything and everything onto the market in the name of capitalism. We don't need all the ready meals and soups in plastic containers and the endless amount of products that are put upon us nowadays, we lived without them before. I mean look around supermarket fridges, sliced apples in plastic containers and the likes, it's depressing.
New products should have to pass some kind of environmental committee that decides if they're actually good for society or not.

We have an environmental committee called the green party and if they would actually come up with something as viable and sensible as some of the suggestions on this thread I'm sure there support would rise.
Jesus its not rocket science, but then again perhaps there hands are tied not wanting to fall out with the big companies as all so often happens.

whisky_galore

malinheader wrote: »

We have an environmental committee called the green party and if they would actually come up with something as viable and sensible as some of the suggestions on this thread I'm sure there support would rise.
Jesus its not rocket science, but then again perhaps there hands are tied not wanting to fall out with the big companies as all so often happens.

The greens are a little busy right now tearing strips off each other.

Thelonious Monk

malinheader wrote: »

We have an environmental committee called the green party and if they would actually come up with something as viable and sensible as some of the suggestions on this thread I'm sure there support would rise.
Jesus its not rocket science, but then again perhaps there hands are tied not wanting to fall out with the big companies as all so often happens.

The Greens don't get to decide what goes on the market. And any attempt to do so would be attacked for being anti-jobs and anti-money.
We don't need take away coffee for example, it shouldn't be a thing, regardless if the materials are made out of vegetable matter, it's still taking up land, energy, and resources. I never see people buying it in Spain or France, they just stop for a minute and drink one there and then.
There are lots of things we don't need, if we want to get serious about the environment we all may need to be inconvenienced a little, there's no getting around that.

malinheader

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The Greens don't get to decide what goes on the market. And any attempt to do so would be attacked for being anti-jobs and anti-money.
We don't need take away coffee for example, it shouldn't be a thing, regardless if the materials are made out of vegetable matter, it's still taking up land, energy, and resources. I never see people buying it in Spain or France, they just stop for a minute and drink one there and then.
There are lots of things we don't need, if we want to get serious about the environment we all may need to be inconvenienced a little, there's no getting around that.

They don't get to decide is right. But can you explain why they never highlight the mess that our country is in with litter and illegal dumping. Why so quiet. As we all now you don't bite the hand that feeds you. Better sticking to cycle lanes and turf cutting.

Mimon

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Ah the same demographic. Gotcha. What demographic is that then?

What is this, an interrogation? You seem to want an argument and you're not getting one from me