The trashing of our parks and beaches

PhilOssophy

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Id partially agree, but I do think a lot of people would put things in a bin if they saw one 20 meters from them, no bin in sight = no reason to even try clean up

A couple of years ago I was walking past a Spar and a little knacker in a uniform from one of the well heeled schools in South Dublin threw his can on a dwarf wall about 3m from a bin.

No doubt his mammy and daddy blame other little scumbags for the rubbish in the area.

mrslancaster

Eric Cartman wrote: »

You have heroin to thank for a lack of benches and toilets and I doubt we’ll see that change in my lifetime.

Ok that's a fair point and probably the reason that Councils removed public toilets in the 80 & 90's.
On the other hand, I don't believe that vast majority of citizens should be made to suffer a lack of public services because of the small percentage of drug addicts in our towns and cities. Other European countries don't seems to penalise law abiding citizens for the misdemeanors of a few although it seems to be a recurring theme in many areas of civil society in Ireland.

It can't be beyond the wit of councils to come up with solutions that benefit the majority of our citizens especially as we are being encouraged to spend more time in outdoor activities.

Eric Cartman

mrslancaster wrote: »

Ok that's a fair point and probably the reason that Councils removed public toilets in the 80 & 90's.
On the other hand, I don't believe that vast majority of citizens should be made to suffer a lack of public services because of the small percentage of drug addicts in our towns and cities. Other European countries don't seems to penalise law abiding citizens for the misdemeanors of a few although it seems to be a recurring theme in many areas of civil society in Ireland.

It can't be beyond the wit of councils to come up with solutions that benefit the majority of our citizens especially as we are being encouraged to spend more time in outdoor activities.

The problem is the majority do suffer, public benches and toilets create concentrated spots for drug addicts which obviously causes danger to the public. We have a very long way to go in tackling heroin abuse before we can safely re-introduce these public conveniences.

PhilOssophy

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The problem is the majority do suffer, public benches and toilets create concentrated spots for drug addicts which obviously causes danger to the public. We have a very long way to go in tackling heroin abuse before we can safely re-introduce these public conveniences.

Unfortunately this sort of thing happened because repeated governments and Depts of Justice have made mere token efforts to try tidy up the city and get rid of these layabouts.

Eric Cartman

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Unfortunately this sort of thing happened because repeated governments and Depts of Justice have made mere token efforts to try tidy up the city and get rid of these layabouts.

And now youve a whole political side and NGO’s painting them as the victims in all this, not the rest of society who has to deal with their poor choices

kildare lad

mrslancaster wrote: »

Ok that's a fair point and probably the reason that Councils removed public toilets in the 80 & 90's.
On the other hand, I don't believe that vast majority of citizens should be made to suffer a lack of public services because of the small percentage of drug addicts in our towns and cities. Other European countries don't seems to penalise law abiding citizens for the misdemeanors of a few although it seems to be a recurring theme in many areas of civil society in Ireland.

It can't be beyond the wit of councils to come up with solutions that benefit the majority of our citizens especially as we are being encouraged to spend more time in outdoor activities.

Could it be that they just get vandalized , they build playgrounds they burn it down , I think insurance is probably another reason . Some chancer might slip or hurt himself in a public toilet and decided to make a few bob . Also the council would have to have workers cleaning and refilling the toilet every 2 or 3 hours aswell.

Pawwed Rig

kildare lad wrote: »

Could it be that they just get vandalized , they build playgrounds they burn it down , I think insurance is probably another reason . Some chancer might slip or hurt himself in a public toilet and decided to make a few bob . Also the council would have to have workers cleaning and refilling the toilet every 2 or 3 hours aswell.

They were hangouts for drug addicts and weirdos when they were open. I remember the one on O'Connell Street. You would creep down the stairs and check if anyone was loitering about before daring to use it. Then you do your business as quickly as possible and gtfo.
They were filthy aswell.

ED E

mrslancaster wrote: »

Maybe councils should install more bins in public places & outsource that bin collection to private companies the same way they did with residential bins. if the bins were emptied regularly maybe people would use them more. That might help with some of the problem.

1. Why is there lots of litter?

Partially because no public bins

2. Why are there no public bins?

Because houses can save a euro by using them as a personal waste collector

3. Why do households do this?

Because the eejits in the dail privatised refuse collection.




Make the councils pick up the waste, take it out of general taxation. Then theres no motivation for Johno in his hiace to dump waste in the Wicklow mountains, no cost externalisation that prevents the LAs installing bins in public places.

Also Oxegen and the rest have been shown by primetime to be utter scumbag organizations.

kildare lad

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

They were hangouts for drug addicts and weirdos when they were open. I remember the one on O'Connell Street. You would creep down the stairs and check if anyone was loitering about before daring to use it. Then you do your business as quickly as possible and gtfo.
They were filthy aswell.

Sure that's what the Boardwalks there for now , a giant magnet for pissheads and junkies

PhilOssophy

ED E wrote: »

1. Why is there lots of litter?

Partially because no public bins

2. Why are there no public bins?

Because houses can save a euro by using them as a personal waste collector

3. Why do households do this?

Because the eejits in the dail privatised refuse collection.




Make the councils pick up the waste, take it out of general taxation. Then theres no motivation for Johno in his hiace to dump waste in the Wicklow mountains, no cost externalisation that prevents the LAs installing bins in public places.

Also Oxegen and the rest have been shown by primetime to be utter scumbag organizations.

Agree. But the tax payer will have to stump up more money to cover it, hence my suggestion above that it be added to the property tax.

jippo nolan

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

They were hangouts for drug addicts and weirdos when they were open. I remember the one on O'Connell Street. You would creep down the stairs and check if anyone was loitering about before daring to use it. Then you do your business as quickly as possible and gtfo.
They were filthy aswell.

You could also get a wash & a brush up, if you were lucky!

PhilOssophy

How do other cities manage their public toilets? I think Irish people would pee on the street rather than pay 20c to use a well kept clean public toilet, in spite of thinking nothing of paying €6 for a pint in a pub half an hour earlier.

Biker79

Wolfe Tone Square is a good example of the likely fate of public toilets, as it has one that was only installed there last summer, as a result of the lockdown.
Its well staffed and looks appealing,

Until you see the crowd of ner do wells who have taken over the area. Pass by any day over the past 3 months and its surrounded by local drunks and degenerates - shouting, roaring and fighting with each other ( and in one incident in January, a passer by who was using the facilities )

It occured to me that there is one section of the council doing their best to improve life in the city - better bike lanes, traffic layouts, public toilet pilot projects. While on another floor, there's another section doing their best to undermine that effort - allowing tents on Henry Street, filling up the hostels and air bnb rooms of the city center with addicts and drunks from all over the country.

Its like there is some ideological battle playing out at Wood Quay, a proxy war, with ordinary law abiding, civic minded people of the city bearing the brunt.

Biker79

PhilOssophy wrote: »

How do other cities manage their public toilets? I think Irish people would pee on the street rather than pay 20c to use a well kept clean public toilet, in spite of thinking nothing of paying €6 for a pint in a pub half an hour earlier.

Shopping centres, when they re-open, are enough IMO. Jervis doesn't charge but I believe Stephens Green does.

downtheroad

PhilOssophy wrote: »

How do other cities manage their public toilets? I think Irish people would pee on the street rather than pay 20c to use a well kept clean public toilet, in spite of thinking nothing of paying €6 for a pint in a pub half an hour earlier.

https://g.co/kgs/Q4QZKM

I used this one in Nyhavn, Copenhagen a couple of years ago. Walking down the flight of stairs to access the toilets I was picturing dark, dreary, littered facilities filled with homeless people. I was shocked when I entered that it was almost like a museum inside. Really well kept facility that is free of charge to the public. I don't remember seeing any attendant but I was so gobsmacked by the cleanliness and beauty of what was a toilet that I wasn't paying attention to anybody who may have been working there.

If this facility was installed in Dublin I just can't imagine it being so well maintained unfortunately.

However, the public toilets at Glendalough and Bray promenade would suggest this can be done in Ireland...or maybe only in Wicklow!

Biker79

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGoKsv2omBU

beggars_bush

I fully agree.

We need litter wardens backed up by plain clothes gardai who will visit places routinely littered, take photos and video. Issue on the spit fines followed up with community service of litter picking

spring lane jack

Eric Cartman wrote: »

You have heroin to thank for a lack of benches and toilets and I doubt we’ll see that change in my lifetime.

Good ol' Heroin ruining people and communities for decades and filling the coffers of intelligence agencies. But whatever you do folks shtay away from teh ol wacky baccy.

Antares35

mrslancaster wrote: »

Agreed & usually any litter bins that are provided are overflowing most of the time.

It's the same story with a complete lack of public toilets or even seating. It seems that anything to make outdoor activities in ireland more pleasant for people won't be provided or allowed by the powers that be. Iirc, it took years for councils to allow outside tables & seats in restaurants.

I always wonder why there are no benches or public toilets in parks, in town centres or areas where people visit? Probably because the councils would have to maintain them. same for litter bins I suppose.

Is it not because of people using them for drug use and generally just thrashing and destroying them? I'd rather wear a nappy than use some of the public toilets I've seen in my time. Some of them make festival portaloos on the third day look five star

Antares35

PhilOssophy wrote: »

How do other cities manage their public toilets? I think Irish people would pee on the street rather than pay 20c to use a well kept clean public toilet, in spite of thinking nothing of paying €6 for a pint in a pub half an hour earlier.

Not necessarily. Pre-covid I used to use the toilet facilities in Stephens green where you pay to go in. Especially when I was pregnant and desperate! Then again, they're hard enough to get to as they're all the way up on the top floor.

Thelonious Monk

If you have no coins they don't seem to care in St Stephen's Green and you can just go in anyway.
I can't think of ever having seen/used public toilets in other cities in Europe - is it a thing? I used to work in central London, can't remember any there either. Actually I can think of 2 underground ones, but they've been turned into nightclubs.

PhilOssophy

Antares35 wrote: »

Not necessarily. Pre-covid I used to use the toilet facilities in Stephens green where you pay to go in. Especially when I was pregnant and desperate! Then again, they're hard enough to get to as they're all the way up on the top floor.

Ah well when pregnant I would say money becomes no object to a clean toilet facility!
Unfortunately though as well, once Stephen's Green closes, what do people do then? Unless McDonalds etc are open, there's very little you can do.

But maybe an idea is that a McDonalds/BK/etc are paid by the council to maintain their facilities and allow them to be used by the general public? It'd be much cheaper as they are maintaining them anyway - they just might need a bit more frequent cleaning if they are available to the public.

Antares35

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Ah well when pregnant I would say money becomes no object to a clean toilet facility!
Unfortunately though as well, once Stephen's Green closes, what do people do then? Unless McDonalds etc are open, there's very little you can do.

But maybe an idea is that a McDonalds/BK/etc are paid by the council to maintain their facilities and allow them to be used by the general public? It'd be much cheaper as they are maintaining them anyway - they just might need a bit more frequent cleaning if they are available to the public.

It wasn't just when I was pregnant I used them! Though yes there were times towards the end I'd have paid a tenner if I had to

Not a bad idea, at least it would dissuade people going in using them for drugs etc. I remember the toilets in trinity had those special lights in them to stop people shooting up. Were they accessible to the public? I can't remember tbh.

PhilOssophy

Antares35 wrote: »

It wasn't just when I was pregnant I used them! Though yes there were times towards the end I'd have paid a tenner if I had to

Not a bad idea, at least it would dissuade people going in using them for drugs etc. I remember the toilets in trinity had those special lights in them to stop people shooting up. Were they accessible to the public? I can't remember tbh.

Exactly, now whether or not the security in McDonalds want the hardship of every Tom Dick and Harry off the streets coming in is another thing! There's probably insurance issues as well that we're not thinking of, knowing Ireland.

Pawwed Rig

I would object strongly to having to pay to use a toilet. We're not that badly off as a country that we cannot provide the most basic of services.

malinheader

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I would object strongly to having to pay to use a toilet. We're not that badly off as a country that we cannot provide the most basic of services.

I would gladly pay a euro to use a guaranteed clean toilet.
Work away from home alot and some of the places I have gone into you would of needed a hazmat suit.
I seriously wonder about some people and the way they are brought up to leave some of the mess.
I also feel for garage assistants some of the messes I have witnessed left for them.

jrosen

I think people are just dirty feckers. Even the toilets in liffey valley are gross and they are inside with a cleaning crew responsible.

I would however be happy to pay a nominal fee to use a clean toilet.

beggars_bush

Used a public toilet in Wellington 7 years ago
It played classical music and had LED lighting when it was flushed.

PhilOssophy

Was cycling around the lovely Cork Street today. Waiting at the lights, and a fairly scaldy looking woman crossed the road from the Centra (I think it is, the one on the junction), heading towards Donore Avenue and just threw her empty snack box on the ground.
I was cycling back about 15-20 minutes later, and there she was walking home with 2 kids from the school.
With a mentality like that, there is little or no hope. I wondered would she have done it with the kids.
Honestly, I was afraid to challenge her but FFS - there was 3 bins in sight.

downtheroad

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Was cycling around the lovely Cork Street today. Waiting at the lights, and a fairly scaldy looking woman crossed the road from the Centra (I think it is, the one on the junction), heading towards Donore Avenue and just threw her empty snack box on the ground.
I was cycling back about 15-20 minutes later, and there she was walking home with 2 kids from the school.
With a mentality like that, there is little or no hope. I wondered would she have done it with the kids.
Honestly, I was afraid to challenge her but FFS - there was 3 bins in sight.

Posted last week about challenging a young adult who did this outside a shop standing within 5 metres of a bin. Him and his mates thought I was the bad guy. All you get is grief. These people don't care. As much as it pains me to ignore it I don't think I'll bother in future because I'll be unlucky to call out somebody who will physically retaliate.