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The trashing of our parks and beaches

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    #482
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,945 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    jrosen wrote: »
    Its horrible to see parks and public areas be abused. I already pay property tax, I already pay for my own bins to be collected and always bring my rubbish home with me or find a bin. Not because Im paying for it but because its the right thing to do. As far as Im concerned leaving my rubbish behind me isn't an option. So how do you change the attitudes of people?

    We can blame young kids and yes they have their part to pay but they aren't driving to parks and beaches. Its adults who should know better. I do think we have a lack of bins. Would having large bins at every car park with lots of signs saying please leave your rubbish here make a difference? Worth a try.

    You have a completely different attitude on the continent. Theres a right to ramble in other European countries as landowners know that people will respect places and not camp up, have a big piss up and a laugh and leave the place looking like shít for someone else to clean up after them. The only thing Paddy understands is the big stick and fines, he's not capable of civic responsibility.
    The ah shur tis grand attitude, ah shur I brought it as far as the bin/bottle bank but shur twas full so I'll leave the bags there for ye as I can't be arsed bringing it home an disposing of it properly. Or shnakey hiding the bag of ****e behind something like sticking your chewing gum under the school desk. Landowners would have a blue fit with a right to ramble here with the shower that are around now.


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    #483
    timeToLive
    Registered Users Posts: 283 ✭✭timeToLive


    Kenya Crooked Tarp wrote: »
    From a volunteer who is heavily involved in clean up groups the only way is bottle return schemes and waste reduction bills. Most rubbish left in parks / beaches now is from gangs partying and gathering. It’s been happening for years now and not changing. I do not believe that all young people are going out of their way to wreck the place, most are just too wasted by the end of the night to take their stuff with them. Bottle return scheme will see this type of waste vanish as it will have value. Waste reduction bills / bans on single use plastics can target the other types of waste such as crisps / sweet packets etc. This generation have grown up surrounded by plastic and give it no value as it has no value. If we get the finger out and sort out the plastic pollution epidemic the next generation might change for the better !


    So you introduce a bottle return scheme but if they're too wasted to take their stuff with them how are they going to... take their stuff with them?


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    #484
    Kenya Crooked Tarp
    Posts: 0 ✭✭ Kenya Crooked Tarp


    timeToLive wrote: »
    So you introduce a bottle return scheme but if they're too wasted to take their stuff with them how are they going to... take their stuff with them?

    Others will collect bottles / cans as they would have a value. Waste reduction policies can target the other items too like crisp / sweet packets. Changing the mentality of the people who are littering is much harder. It will take generations until that happens in Ireland. It’s not a quick fix. Waste reduction and bottle return schemes are ! Fines / enforcement do not exist in Ireland so at the moment what other options are there ?


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    #485
    malinheader
    Registered Users Posts: 5,103 ✭✭✭malinheader


    timeToLive wrote: »
    So you introduce a bottle return scheme but if they're too wasted to take their stuff with them how are they going to... take their stuff with them?

    Would other people walk past money on the ground.
    When we were kids we would go looking for empty bottles to take back to the shop.


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    #486
    Kenya Crooked Tarp
    Posts: 0 ✭✭ Kenya Crooked Tarp


    malinheader wrote: »
    Would other people walk past money on the ground.
    When we were kids we would go looking for empty bottles to take back to the shop.

    If I got 5cent per bottle and can on my last clean up I would have netted around 20 Quid !


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    #487
    Multipass
    Registered Users Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Multipass


    The sooner they open up the shopping centres the better. The woods are full of people who aren’t really interested in being there, they just have nowhere else to take the kids. They bring food, chuck the wrappers and bottles all over the ground, along with a few masks and wipes. The kids have tantrums, or amuse themselves by snapping small trees. I can’t wait till they all go back to Penney’s or somewhere.


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    #488
    malinheader
    Registered Users Posts: 5,103 ✭✭✭malinheader


    Kenya Crooked Tarp wrote: »
    If I got 5cent per bottle and can on my last clean up I would have netted around 20 Quid !

    I can't see why this is not implemented. Seems a no brainer to me.


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    #489
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    These people aren't going to return bottles or cans for 5cents or 20cents or even a euro each. They've too much money already, the point of what they do is to show contempt.

    The big difference between Ireland and the rest of Europe is enforcement I think. That's enforcement both by parents, society and the police, along with park rangers in national parks. We have no enforcement over here, teens and young adults have no boundaries and everyone is afraid to tell them to stop doing something.

    A bit of education might make a difference because usually in these groups you'll have at least one or two of them who will be embarrassed. A great big sign saying that no-one will pick up your litter after you leave will get through to some of the thickest who think the litter fairy is patrolling beside every stream.

    But going back to enforcement - it's not fair on landowners, and it puts those of us who behave responsibly at risk of having places closed to us. Allow landowners to ban wild camping, and then let's put together something (let's call it a "police force") which will enforce laws. You could also beef up the NPWS rangers, but I wouldn't really want them to have to confront possibly aggressive groups - but it'd be a good start for them to ask groups to move on.


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    #490
    malinheader
    Registered Users Posts: 5,103 ✭✭✭malinheader


    hmmm wrote: »
    These people aren't going to return bottles or cans for 5cents or 20cents or even a euro each. They've too much money already, the point of what they do is to show contempt.

    The big difference between Ireland and the rest of Europe is enforcement I think. That's enforcement both by parents, society and the police, along with park rangers in national parks. We have no enforcement over here, teens and young adults have no boundaries.

    A bit of education might make a difference because usually in these groups you'll have at least one or two of them who will be embarrassed. A great big sign saying that no-one will pick up your litter after you leave will get through to some of the thickest who think the litter fairy is patrolling beside every stream.

    But going back to enforcement - it's not fair on landowners, and it puts those of us who behave responsibly at risk of having places closed to us. Allow landowners to ban wild camping, and then let's put together something (let's call it a "police force") which will enforce laws. You could also beef up the NPWS rangers, but I wouldn't really want them to have to confront possibly aggressive groups - but it'd be a good start for them to ask groups to move on.

    I don't care who returns the bottle or can or whatever, all i know if there was a cash refund on them some of us might get more help on our clean up or even not have to go and do it. I totally disagree and think they would return there refundables if it meant an extra can of whatever.


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    #491
    Kenya Crooked Tarp
    Posts: 0 ✭✭ Kenya Crooked Tarp


    hmmm wrote: »
    These people aren't going to return bottles or cans for 5cents or 20cents or even a euro each. They've too much money already, the point of what they do is to show contempt.

    The big difference between Ireland and the rest of Europe is enforcement I think. That's enforcement both by parents, society and the police, along with park rangers in national parks. We have no enforcement over here, teens and young adults have no boundaries and everyone is afraid to tell them to stop doing something.

    A bit of education might make a difference because usually in these groups you'll have at least one or two of them who will be embarrassed. A great big sign saying that no-one will pick up your litter after you leave will get through to some of the thickest who think the litter fairy is patrolling beside every stream.

    But going back to enforcement - it's not fair on landowners, and it puts those of us who behave responsibly at risk of having places closed to us. Allow landowners to ban wild camping, and then let's put together something (let's call it a "police force") which will enforce laws. You could also beef up the NPWS rangers, but I wouldn't really want them to have to confront possibly aggressive groups - but it'd be a good start for them to ask groups to move on.

    Sorry but forget about enforcement in Ireland. I’ve been a volunteer for over 10 years now and never seen any enforcement or fines given to anyone for littering ! Signs do not really work as these people know there are no consequences and they pay zero attention to them ! It’s a sad reality but waste reduction bills and bottle return schemes are out only answer at the moment !


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    #492
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,945 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    hmmm wrote: »
    These people aren't going to return bottles or cans for 5cents or 20cents or even a euro each. They've too much money already, the point of what they do is to show contempt.

    The big difference between Ireland and the rest of Europe is enforcement I think. That's enforcement both by parents, society and the police, along with park rangers in national parks. We have no enforcement over here, teens and young adults have no boundaries and everyone is afraid to tell them to stop doing something.

    It is definitely more a social thing.
    You can have trails and not meet a single person for quite some time, much less a warden, and people will not dream of messing it up. They don't need a warden every few metres and CCTV because people there respect their surroundings and like to keep it clean for the next person.

    Over here like Fr Stack it is "I had my fun and that's all that matters".


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    #493
    kildare lad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    Multipass wrote: »
    The sooner they open up the shopping centres the better. The woods are full of people who aren’t really interested in being there, they just have nowhere else to take the kids. They bring food, chuck the wrappers and bottles all over the ground, along with a few masks and wipes. The kids have tantrums, or amuse themselves by snapping small trees. I can’t wait till they all go back to Penney’s or somewhere.

    The sooner they open schools and sports the better. I walk the local park every second evening and without fail there's teenagers on the piss every evening I'm out . Maybe on the weekend you'd see the odd group but not multiple different groups on weeknights.


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    #494
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    malinheader wrote: »
    I don't care who returns the bottle or can or whatever, all i know if there was a cash refund on them some of us might get more help on our clean up or even not have to go and do it. I totally disagree and think they would return there refundables if it meant an extra can of whatever.
    There's camping areas in Wicklow where groups are leaving entire tents and clothes and equipment behind them. Money isn't a problem as far as I can see.

    I know where you're coming from, but I think the problem has to be tackled at source rather than hoping that other people will become litter collectors.


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    #495
    De Bhál
    Registered Users Posts: 2,868 ✭✭✭De Bhál


    The signs you see in scenic spots that warn 'you will be fined if caught dumping', those sign themselves are basically rubbish in my eyes as the type that dump their rubbish at these places aren't going to stop because of a warning sign.


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    #496
    Kenya Crooked Tarp
    Posts: 0 ✭✭ Kenya Crooked Tarp


    hmmm wrote: »
    There's camping areas in Wicklow where groups are leaving entire tents and clothes and equipment behind them. Money isn't a problem as far as I can see.

    I know where you're coming from, but I think the problem has to be tackled at source rather than hoping that other people will become litter collectors.

    Yes by implementing waste reduction bills and also bottle return schemes which help to rid beaches, parks and hedgerows of plastic bottles. Solving the social issue of littering is a much longer term project.


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    #497
    kildare lad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    malinheader wrote: »
    I don't care who returns the bottle or can or whatever, all i know if there was a cash refund on them some of us might get more help on our clean up or even not have to go and do it. I totally disagree and think they would return there refundables if it meant an extra can of whatever.

    I remember a friend of my telling me about a scheme like that where he was living in australia. He said you wouldn't see a can or a bottle throw anywhere as the local alco's would be constantly picking them up to get enough money for a few cans . I think it's a great initiative.


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    #498
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    It is definitely more a social thing.
    You can have trails and not meet a single person for quite some time, much less a warden, and people will not dream of messing it up. They don't need a warden every few metres and CCTV because people there respect their surroundings and like to keep it clean for the next person.
    Maybe. I know that Glendalough is rarely trashed because the NPWS put a big effort into having rangers around who move people on. They can't do that in the rest of Wicklow - but it shows what is possible.

    Anywhere I've been in Europe there tends to be a much more active (and well resourced) set of rangers who wouldn't be quick hassling groups and fining them.

    I know I'm talking about camping and not what we are seeing in parks & beaches, but it's all the same problem and spilling over into rural areas. There are plenty of experienced wild campers who cause no trouble and clean up after themselves, but there is a new element who have arrived in the past 12/24 months who trash the place.


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    #499
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,945 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    De Bhál wrote: »
    The signs you see in scenic spots that warn 'you will be fined if caught dumping', those sign themselves are basically rubbish in my eyes as the type that dump their rubbish at these places aren't going to stop because of a warning sign.

    I really cannot understand the mindset of anyone that hops into a car and sneaks out to drop rubbish. They obviously can afford to keep a car on the road but can't afford a rubbish collection.


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    #500
    Kenya Crooked Tarp
    Posts: 0 ✭✭ Kenya Crooked Tarp


    kildare lad wrote: »
    I remember a friend of my telling me about a scheme like that where he was living in australia. He said you wouldn't see a can or a bottle throw anywhere as the local alco's would be constantly picking them up to get enough money for a few cans . I think it's a great initiative.

    Of course it’s a no brainer but this is Ireland and some way will be found to stop it !


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    #501
    malinheader
    Registered Users Posts: 5,103 ✭✭✭malinheader


    hmmm wrote: »
    There's camping areas in Wicklow where groups are leaving entire tents and clothes and equipment behind them. Money isn't a problem as far as I can see.

    I know where you're coming from, but I think the problem has to be tackled at source rather than hoping that other people will become litter collectors.

    I'm open to anything being tried. Be nice to see something happening to show that we do really seriously want to clean up our country.


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    #502
    Kenya Crooked Tarp
    Posts: 0 ✭✭ Kenya Crooked Tarp


    hmmm wrote: »
    Maybe. I know that Glendalough is rarely trashed because the NPWS put a big effort into having rangers around who move people on. They can't do that in the rest of Wicklow - but it shows what is possible.

    Anywhere I've been in Europe there tends to be a much more active (and well resourced) set of rangers who wouldn't be quick hassling groups and fining them.

    I know I'm talking about camping and not what we are seeing in parks & beaches, but it's all the same problem and spilling over into rural areas. There are plenty of experienced wild campers who cause no trouble and clean up after themselves, but there is a new element who have arrived in the past 12/24 months who trash the place.

    Our volunteer group are stopping cleaning up this summer. We are leaving it so people will see the mess left behind and it might get more attention. We will start again after the summer is finished !


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    #503
    Northernlily
    Registered Users Posts: 2,791 ✭✭✭Northernlily


    kildare lad wrote: »
    I remember a friend of my telling me about a scheme like that where he was living in australia. He said you wouldn't see a can or a bottle throw anywhere as the local alco's would be constantly picking them up to get enough money for a few cans . I think it's a great initiative.

    Witnessed it first hand whilst working nights on projects in Sydney. The local alcos would be out at night on bikes collecting huge bags of plastic.

    Very good idea and simple to implement!


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    #504
    malinheader
    Registered Users Posts: 5,103 ✭✭✭malinheader


    kildare lad wrote: »
    I remember a friend of my telling me about a scheme like that where he was living in australia. He said you wouldn't see a can or a bottle throw anywhere as the local alco's would be constantly picking them up to get enough money for a few cans . I think it's a great initiative.

    I think it would be great to try. The state's must have something similar, in alot of films you see the odd down on his luck fella pushing the shopping trolley full of cans.


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    #505
    Kenya Crooked Tarp
    Posts: 0 ✭✭ Kenya Crooked Tarp


    Northernlily wrote: »
    Witnessed it first hand whilst working nights on projects in Sydney. The local alcos would be out at night on bikes collecting huge bags of plastic.

    Very good idea and simple to implement!

    It’s with the Green Party at the moment I think ?


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    #506
    joebloggs32
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭joebloggs32


    Kenya Crooked Tarp wrote: »
    Our volunteer group are stopping cleaning up this summer. We are leaving it so people will see the mess left behind and it might get more attention. We will start again after the summer is finished !

    I agree with you. There is a mindset that someone will pick it up.
    Your group should let it be known publicly thats what you will be doing


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    #507
    spring lane jack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 163 ✭✭spring lane jack


    Kenya Crooked Tarp wrote: »
    Of course it’s a no brainer but this is Ireland and some way will be found to stop it !

    The anti everything people would throw a fit over it. They would genuinely prefer to see the place wrecked than allow winos and addicts to buy more drink.


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    #508
    Optimalprimerib
    Registered Users Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭Optimalprimerib


    I occasionally join the clean up crew in my area and truly it is disheartening. I think that a hefty fine or two hours of community service should be applied for anyone littering, where they have to help in the clean up. If they see how much crap you are able to pick in an hour, it might make them wiser.


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    #509
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,001 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Optimalprimerib wrote:
    I occasionally join the clean up crew in my area and truly it is disheartening. I think that a hefty fine or two hours of community service should be applied for anyone littering, where they have to help in the clean up. If they see how much crap you are able to pick in an hour, it might make them wiser.

    I somehow doubt it to be honest, we apply these 'punishments' in order to force change, but there's no conclusive evidence to support that actually occurs, hard to know where to go with it


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    #510
    zell12
    Registered Users Posts: 23,977 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    Runners collect 174 bags of roadside rubbish in pandemic clean-up
    “We collected a staggering 174 bags [of rubbish] out of the ditches over a stretch of only 3km,” said Martin Baten of St Coca’s Athletic Club in Kilcock, Co Kildare.
    The initiative was undertaken after club members were horrified by the extent of rubbish along the route of a 5km road race over the local Slí na Sláinte.

    Unsure of the timeframe


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    #511
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,001 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ^^^Jesus that's diabolical, was in the forest over the weekend, some dumping going on


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