How will schools be able to go back in September?

marilynrr

Boggles wrote: »

Sweden has the highest daily coronavirus death rate in the world – and it’s getting worse



You still think we should have went the Swedish route?

300 people have died since Monday.

Obviously they were going to have a higher amount of deaths initially than countries who took the lockdown approach. No one expected Sweden to have less deaths.
We can't tell anything by those figures or if they took the wrong approach.
We may have just as many deaths in our population after spreading out the curve.
We could even have more. Aren't some people saying we could get another wave during Winter that will be deadlier? If that happens then many in Sweden could be spared!

FishOnABike

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Yes and the shift in media narrative on this is well underway already. I'd be surprised if the schools aren't open before September.

I think they'll ditch the social distancing, low case numbers in addition to what's apparently very very low risk of transmission means it's just won't be necessary.


https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-schools-covid-19-transmission-5110842-May2020/

Quote : "The study suggests that there is still a lack of evidence around whether the re-opening of schools is safe, or whether doing so would lead to a resurgence of the virus."

sideswipe

TheValeyard wrote: »

Schools closing again in South Korea. Could be a rolling thing worldwide


https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-south-korea-forced-to-close-schools-again-after-spike-in-new-covid-19-cases-11996706

Headline makes it sound like it's a blanket reclosure rather than 250 schools in a metropolitan area.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

FishOnABike wrote: »

Quote : "The study suggests that there is still a lack of evidence around whether the re-opening of schools is safe, or whether doing so would lead to a resurgence of the virus."

Schools have opened right across Europe (some only closed for 4 weeks anyway) and there's been no significant increase in infections as a result of schools reopening.

We will be the last to open along with Italy who have a much older age demographic for their teachers and whose country was riddled with the virus. The impact of the virus here was much less than what Italy saw happen to them and yet some will try to justify keeping us locked down.

dundalkfc10

sideswipe wrote: »

Headline makes it sound like it's a blanket reclosure rather than 250 schools in a metropolitan area.

No drama in that for some on here

khalessi

sideswipe wrote: »

Dealing with people who are very ill with covid-19 and dealing with school kids who are not sick are two completely different things. If you are looking for the government to reassure you that there will not be any risk I think you'll be waiting. We are all facing into a situation where there is a new threat that didn't exist before, luckily for use it seems the the threat is far, far less than we thought it would be 3 months ago. Supermarket workers have been working for the last few months in an inside environment mostly without masks and have not been badly effected. Risk is part of life.

Thank you for that. I am aware of the difference having worked in both professions and witnessed how quick illness spreads in both and also having been involved in the area of cross infection control. I dont where you are but where I am supermarket workers have had protective screens, gloves, masks, sanitiser at the door, numbers limited entering the shop which has become more vigilant since May18th and social distancing with areas marked out on the floor.

I love how people imply teachers are overreacting look at the supermarket workers, an area where people tend not to spend a lot of time hanging around. However in meat factories lots of clusters where people spend all day together.

Unless maybe people are hanging out now for 51/2 hours at the local supermarket, I dunno maybe it is the in thing to do now everywhere else has been closed.

Risk is a part of life but I choose how much risk I take and like I said I am happy to teach in a mask. Oh and btw I am concerned just as much about being infected by an asymptomatic colleague.

mcsean2163

Looking at the stats, https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105061/coronavirus-deaths-by-region-in-italy/

78 people under age 40 died in Italy from covid19 related death.

This is of course sad but sadly people in that age bracket do die. It does suggest to me the risk is low to people under 40. Why not open schools now to that age bracket?

My story. Fired this week, have been unable to return to work as schools and childcare closed. Company was very decent to hold out but I am a contractor and have been unable to return since St Paddy's Day. I have been getting €350 which at least helps but at some point I'd appreciate it if the mandarins told us what the actual policy is.

We were told flatten curve. That is done. If the goal is to eliminate all cases in Ireland, why don't they say that, otherwise what are we doing?

Life is not without risk.

We live in Dublin, not in some country paradise where the kids can be at one with fabulous nature. My daughter is in primary school and hasn't met a single friend in person since lockdown.

My wife is a frontline worker and our entire family has been at risk given the useless PPE. I'd be happy to teach myself if my wife was ok with that but maybe it's time for the young generation under 40 to help out? Maybe there should be a volunteer system because what's the alternative, continue to lock up healthy kids until they become unhealthy?

Boggles

seamus wrote: »

I feel for the DoE here.

I don't, bunch of absolute incompetents, underlined by an irrelevant lame duck minister ranting and raving on zoom last night about what he would like to see in September.

"I want to see full schools and no masks" - Get up the fúcking yard you absolute dribbler, at best he will be a largely ignored back bench TD in a fortnight.

There is a very narrow window here to get things right schools, not for September, but for Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb and March.

We need competent leaders in the DOE now, because we are late very very late, we should implementing a plan not waiting for one.

Boggles

marilynrr wrote: »

We could even have more. Aren't some people saying we could get another wave during Winter that will be deadlier? If that happens then many in Sweden could be spared!

How? In what way will Sweden be "spared". There will just be even more people killed if it is deadlier, obviously.

Unless you are saying the 300 odd that have died since Monday can't be killed again, then I suppose you right.

History Queen

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Schools have opened right across Europe (some only closed for 4 weeks anyway) and there's been no significant increase in infections as a result of schools reopening.

We will be the last to open along with Italy who have a much older age demographic for their teachers and whose country was riddled with the virus. The impact of the virus here was much less than what Italy saw happen to them and yet some will try to justify keeping us locked down.

Not firected to you in particular Zahir Bitter Cellist, butI see a lot of people comparing us to Europe .
I could stand to be corrected on this but am I correct in saying that none of the schools that are opened across Europe are open full time to the full student cohort? And that all of them are implementing social distancing measures and that some are not teaching but rather providing sociliation opportunities or essentially childcare provison rather than education? Have any schools opened full time to all students?

I really hope by September that when we open it will be for education provision and to a full student cohort but numbers wise I'm finding it hardto see howthat will happen if social distancing measures still need to be enforced.

Boggles

JDD wrote: »

They didn't stagger start and end times or yard times in my school.

They do in lots of schools.

JDD wrote: »

They were still doing PE indoors.

Large swathes of schools don't have indoor facilities.

JDD wrote: »

I think they were all sent to wash their hands after lunch - that was the only change pre-pandemic, perhaps in your school it was different?

Schools have massive personal hygiene campaigns, wall to wall signs about hand washing, etc.

Anyway that should come from home, if your child is not washing their hands several times a day, before eating, after using the rest room, etc. That isn't the schools fault.

marilynrr

Boggles wrote: »

How? In what way will Sweden be "spared". There will just be even more people killed if it is deadlier, obviously.

Unless you are saying the 300 odd that have died since Monday can't be killed again, then I suppose you right.

If they caught it now when it's milder then more than likely they won't catch the deadlier one!!!!
Also if more of the population has already had the milder one then there's less change of massive clusters in Winter.

is_that_so

marilynrr wrote: »

If they caught it now when it's milder then more than likely they won't catch the deadlier one!!!!
Also if more of the population has already had the milder one then there's less change of massive clusters in Winter.

Percentages range from about 5% to 12%. Our test is expected to kick off from next week on a sample of 5000 and it should be finished by the end of June.

Boggles

marilynrr wrote: »

If they caught it now when it's milder then more than likely they won't catch the deadlier one!!!!
Also if more of the population has already had the milder one then there's less change of massive clusters in Winter.

Herd immunity?

No, that has been completely debunked.

There is no evidence to support milder one, more deadlier one, or whatever tangent you are going off on.

What may transpire by winter is one of the treatments in trial at the moment could become a "game changer" in mortality rates, which will mean Sweden have killed an awful lot of people they need not have and that will require quite a bit of explaining I imagine.

FishOnABike

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Schools have partially opened right across Europe (some only closed for 4 weeks anyway) and there's been no significant increase in infections yet as a result of schools reopening.

We will be the last to open along with Italy who have a much older age demographic for their teachers and whose country was riddled with the virus. The impact of the virus here was much less than what Italy saw happen to them and yet some will try to justify keeping us locked down.

FTFY - In a way it would be good if primary schools could open first. The same pupils and teacher are in the same room for a shorter day. Staggering break times could minimise the mixing of children from different classes. Each table could be treated as a pod and older primary classes might be able to adhere to some degree to the pod concept. Shared class learning resources could be a problem that would gave to be looked at though.

Secondary schools pose a different set of problems. They are generally larger than primary schools. Students move from class to class and from teacher to teacher each lesson. A pupil might have over 100 contacts between peers and staff. There is a large amount of movement and intermingling of people for a longer period of time. Shared equipment in practical subjects is something that needs to be looked at too.

Downplaying or ignoring the potential risks does no one any favours. It's only by looking at the potential problems and how they can be addressed that schools can be expected to run reliably. It may mean having to run them differently than they have up to now.

marilynrr

Boggles wrote: »

Herd immunity?

No, that has been completely debunked.

There is no evidence to support milder one, more deadlier one, or whatever tangent you are going off on.

What may transpire by winter is one of the treatments in trial at the moment could become a "game changer" in mortality rates, which will mean Sweden have killed an awful lot of people they need not have and that will require quite a bit of explaining I imagine.

Herd immunity has been debunked? I don't know what that's supposed to mean considering herd immunity is a well known thing!

Also all viruses mutate, maybe it will become milder, maybe it will become deadlier. I don't know why you're looking for evidence.

Lots of things may transpire by Winter, that's why i'm saying looking at Swedens figures now people might say oh they got it wrong, we don't know the full picture yet so we can't tell!

Boggles

Drumpot wrote: »

I saw the headline again about how safe schools are with little evidence to back it up. All I see is is the government trying To soften people up into going back in Sept.

The hilarious thing about that, it's largely based on a relatively small study from South Korea, where masks are mandatory for all teachers and students.

But our Minister for Education says absolutely no way to masks, full schools back, business as usual, bit of social distancing.

You couldn't actually make it up.

You might as well have had a homeless drunk fella ranting and raving on Zoom last night.

marilynrr

FishOnABike wrote: »

Secondary schools pose a different set of problems.

I think transport to secondary schools is a big one. Some buses service 2 or 3 schools in the same town!

Boggles

marilynrr wrote: »

Herd immunity has been debunked? I don't know what that's supposed to mean considering herd immunity is a well known thing!
!

Yes, by vaccination.

Not by letting it rip and killing off all the vulnerable.

Anyway, it isn't my opinion, Sweden has admitted that herd immunity is impossible achieve.

They will need 70-90% at least and there is no guarantees it will be lasting immunity.

is_that_so

marilynrr wrote: »

Herd immunity has been debunked? I don't know what that's supposed to mean considering herd immunity is a well known thing!

Also all viruses mutate, maybe it will become milder, maybe it will become deadlier. I don't know why you're looking for evidence.

Lots of things may transpire by Winter, that's why i'm saying looking at Swedens figures now people might say oh they got it wrong, we don't know the full picture yet so we can't tell!

Not as a concept, in the current context of COVID-19 the numbers are paltry and it's fair to assume that Sweden will be in the same range as everyone else. Winter will see us much more ready to face new outbreaks, unlike where we were all at in February.

marilynrr

Boggles wrote: »

Yes, by vaccination.

Not by letting it rip and killing off all the vulnerable.

Anyway, it isn't my opinion, Sweden has admitted that herd immunity is impossible achieve.

They will need 70-90% at least and there is no guarantees it will be lasting immunity.

Herd immunity is not just possible through vaccination.

For all we know there will never be a vaccination either!

Also I understand that there is no guarantee that there will be lasting immunity, but maybe there will be!! And in that case especially if there was no vaccination then Sweden will be in a better position than the rest of us...which is the point I was making! It is too early to say that Sweden did it wrong (or right). There is still a lot to happen in this whole thing!

is_that_so wrote: »

Not as a concept, in the current context of COVID-19 the numbers are paltry and it's fair to assume that Sweden will be in the same range as everyone else. Winter well see us much more ready to face new outbreaks, unlike where we were all at in February.

Yes I understand they are low at the moment. I read at the end of April it was just over 7% in Sweden and recent estimates are saying 20%.....but I don't' think anyone expected them to reach the numbers required for herd immunity in a few months!

wirelessdude01

Boggles wrote: »

The hilarious thing about that, it's largely based on a relatively small study from South Korea, where masks are mandatory for all teachers and students.

But our Minister for Education says absolutely no way to masks, full schools back, business as usual, bit of social distancing.

You couldn't actually make it up.

You might as well have had a homeless drunk fella ranting and raving on Zoom last night.

Was it just me or did it look like Joe McHugh had a botched colour job done to his hair when he was in PT last night?

is_that_so

marilynrr wrote: »

Herd immunity is not just possible through vaccination.

For all we know there will never be a vaccination either!

Also I understand that there is no guarantee that there will be lasting immunity, but maybe there will be!! And in that case especially if there was no vaccination then Sweden will be in a better position than the rest of us...which is the point I was making! It is too early to say that Sweden did it wrong (or right). There is still a lot to happen in this whole thing!



Yes I understand they are low at the moment. I read at the end of April it was just over 7% in Sweden and recent estimates are saying 20%.....but I don't' think anyone expected them to reach the numbers required for herd immunity in a few months!

Nobody has hit anywhere near 20% on tests carried out and the Swedes are just guessing, quite probably wrongly. IIRC some parts of Spain came in at 12% but virtually all the rest of the data is in single figures.

Boggles

marilynrr wrote: »

Herd immunity is not just possible through vaccination.

Science disagrees.

But then again, I'll give you an opportunity.

Where have we achieved herd immunity from a Coronavirus in the past?

I'll give you a clue, we haven't ever.

Deaths.

Sweden: 4,220
Denmark: 565
Finland: 313
Norway: 235

It's no surprise the likes of this is happening.

Denmark and Norway strike tourist border deal...without Sweden

marilynrr

Boggles wrote: »

Science disagrees.

But then again, I'll give you an opportunity.

Where have we achieved herd immunity from a Coronavirus in the past?

I'll give you a clue, we haven't ever.

Science does not disagree.


Also When has there ever been a coronavirus vaccine in the past??
Never.

marilynrr

Boggles wrote: »

Schools have massive personal hygiene campaigns, wall to wall signs about hand washing, etc.

Anyway that should come from home, if your child is not washing their hands several times a day, before eating, after using the rest room, etc. That isn't the schools fault.

In my sons school before the pandemic he said water in the bathrooms was turned off at certain times in the day so people weren't messing. I'm not sure if it was at break time or during class time.

The only hand dryer available was that horrible old fashioned pull down toweling thing.

I don't think they had time to put in new hand dryers but they did turn the water back on before the schools shut!

SusanC10

No hot water in either the Primary or Secondary school our Kids attend and no soap in the Secondary pre-pandemic.

Boggles

marilynrr wrote: »

Science does not disagree.

Well then, tell me, when have we achieved herd immunity from a coronavirus?

marilynrr wrote: »

Also When has there ever been a coronavirus vaccine in the past??
Never.

Now you are getting it.

There may not be one, either.

Treppen

Boggles wrote: »

Well then, tell me, when have we achieved herd immunity from a coronavirus?



Now you are getting it.

There may not be one, either.

If you can vaccinate 5bn people on the planet with a vaccine then it'll be found.

Why wasnt there a need to find a vaccine for older coronavirus strains anyway? Cos it wasn't a pandemic

Boggles

marilynrr wrote: »

In my sons school before the pandemic he said water in the bathrooms was turned off at certain times in the day so people weren't messing. I'm not sure if it was at break time or during class time.

The only hand dryer available was that horrible old fashioned pull down toweling thing.

I don't think they had time to put in new hand dryers but they did turn the water back on before the schools shut!

SusanC10 wrote: »

No hot water in either the Primary or Secondary school our Kids attend and no soap in the Secondary pre-pandemic.

Well that underlines my point, 3 schools denying basic human rights (if true), but we should just rush back in, be grand sure full tilt and base it all on how Joe McHugh "feels" about things.