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How will schools be able to go back in September?

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Comments

  • #2852
    DSN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 288 ✭✭DSN


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Honest question, since when did 6th class graduations become so important?

    Last year half of the 6th class didn't bother turning up. Some were on family holidays, some were at sports training and matches and some just didn't bother turning up at all.

    I could go through the current 6th class in our school and tell you at least 6/7 of them who definitely wouldn't bother their backsides turning up.

    This issue seems to have become a litmus test of whether people can bend the will of Tony and Leo and force them into allowing something.

    Well in our school it's a big deal it's rare anyone misses it. It's a small country school though. The school put a video together of all the kids from juniors to 6th. the kids sing songs and thank their teachers tell everyone their best memories. Their teachers input too and put huge effort in. Yeh a load of sentimental old crap probably in your opinion but kids, parents (and the teachers say they do) value it and it's a long lasting happy memory of primary school. Am glad the teachers in our school think it's worthwhile. Even in a pandemic!


  • #2853
    WAW
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 242 ✭✭WAW


    F*ck that craic. If schools don't open normally in September, parents should revolt.
    Absolutely no reason they shouldn't but I agree the Dept. Of Education are woefully weak and inadequate in this period. There were plenty of ways the LC could have gone ahead and they blew that. Hopefully McHugh will have learned something from that fiasco and do a better job and grow a pair and insist the schools reopen as normal.


  • #2854
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,498 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    FixdePitchmark wrote: »

    I don't give a **** - dropping kids to school in September - I'm not picking them up till normal pick up time.

    I take it you are just blowing off steam and not actually serious.

    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



  • #2855
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,455 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    TheValeyard wrote: »
    I take it you are just blowing off steam and not actually serious.

    It is boards. I wouldn't assume anything.


  • #2856
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,455 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    DSN wrote: »
    Well in our school it's a big deal it's rare anyone misses it. It's a small country school though. The school put a video together of all the kids from juniors to 6th. the kids sing songs and thank their teachers tell everyone their best memories. Their teachers input too and put huge effort in. Yeh a load of sentimental old crap probably in your opinion but kids, parents (and the teachers say they do) value it and it's a long lasting happy memory of primary school. Am glad the teachers in our school think it's worthwhile. Even in a pandemic!

    But why the bug woohaaa about it? When did graduations become a thing at primary level? We are trying to ape what we see in the American movies rather than keeping what makes us who we are.
    Not getting at anyone who thinks it is important but rather trying to get people to think why this is the issue of the week at the moment? Last week it was the media trying to force 6th Tobe allowed back for June, week(s) before it was the LC. Wonder what campaign the media will focus on next week?


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  • #2857
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,797 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    The way the narrative is going it will be masks and 1m distance for secondary school students in September and 1m but no masks for under-13s in primary.

    This still may not be a full return as you can't seat full classes a metre apart in regular classrooms for the most part. Some smaller option classes will be fine but not larger core subject classes. How they will rotate the extra students remains to be seen.

    In Denmark, they employed extra teachers. Will they be willing to spend money on this recruitment and will there be enough qualified applicants? Often jobs have to be readvertised at 2nd level in certain subject areas-- Irish and maths teachers, for example, can be difficult to find.

    Be interesting to see how they sort it over the summer months.


  • #2858
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,565 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    Its hard to believe that we began shutting down our country 3 months ago and we have 332 deaths per million of population, Sweden who didn't lockdown have 423 deaths per million of population. I just wonder was it all a bit too much considering the impact it will have on our country for years to come.

    Sweden has the highest daily coronavirus death rate in the world – and it’s getting worse

    1739d440-a121-11ea-a3f7-d7f59b1513d5

    You still think we should have went the Swedish route?

    300 people have died since Monday.


  • #2859
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,455 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »
    The way the narrative is going it will be masks and 1m distance for secondary school students in September and 1m but no masks for under-13s in primary.

    This still may not be a full return as you can't seat full classes a metre apart in regular classrooms for the most part. Some smaller option classes will be fine but not larger core subject classes. How they will rotate the extra students remains to be seen.

    In Denmark, they employed extra teachers. Will they be willing to spend money on this recruitment and will there be enough qualified applicants? Often jobs have to be readvertised at 2nd level in certain subject areas-- Irish and maths teachers, for example, can be difficult to find.

    Be interesting to see how they sort it over the summer months.

    Even 1m apart will cause another possibly unseen issue at primary level. Most seating in primary schools are those two person jobbies. The cost of getting rid/replacing those with single ones is huge.


  • #2860
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,797 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Even 1m apart will cause another possibly unseen issue at primary level. Most seating in primary schools are those two person jobbies. The cost of getting rid/replacing those with single ones is huge.

    Yep, many hurdles that would have to be overcome. Canteen facilities. Report on prime time last night described 45 mins of day spent handwashing etc


  • #2861
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,565 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    WAW wrote: »
    Hopefully McHugh will have learned something from that fiasco and do a better job and grow a pair and insist the schools reopen as normal.

    Chances are he won't be a minister next month let alone involved in education.


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  • #2862
    SusanC10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭SusanC10


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Honest question, since when did 6th class graduations become so important?

    Huge deal of it made at our school. Was on the PA for years and the amount of work that went into it for weeks beforehand.
    Personally, I found it a bit OTT especially all the mothers crying etc.
    Our son wasn't that bothered and we ended up being in France anyway in the end. His closest friends in the Class weren't there either.


  • #2863
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Even 1m apart will cause another possibly unseen issue at primary level. Most seating in primary schools are those two person jobbies. The cost of getting rid/replacing those with single ones is huge.

    Probably much less of a cost than not having children go back to school and all that goes with that.

    My primary school in all its wisdom has decided that now is a good time to split and shuffle some classes.

    So not only will this mean those kids probably going back to strange arrangements but now they will be going through it without a lot of their usual school friends making it an even less appetising option.

    The school does this from time to time depending on teacher numbers so some of these classes will have already been split and reorganised previously.

    This is not a good time to do this, it's quite a big deal for young children and a lot of them will be upset.

    That just shows me how little student welfare comes into any decision thats made.


  • #2864
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,455 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    Probably much less of a cost than not having children go back to school and all that goes with that.

    My primary school in all its wisdom has decided that now is a good time to split and shuffle some classes.

    So not only will this mean those kids probably going back to strange arrangements but now they will be going through it without a lot of their usual school friends making it an even less appetising option.

    The school does this from time to time depending on teacher numbers so some of these classes will have already been split and reorganised previously.

    This is not a good time to do this, it's quite a big deal for young children and a lot of them will be upset.

    That just shows me how little student welfare comes into any decision thats made.

    That is common in a lot of primary schools and has to happen due to numbers. Nothing that can be done about it.

    As regards cost, actual financial cost of things like having to seats will impact hugely on actual schools and is something than can be worked out but bet it hasn't been considered at a high up level.


  • #2865
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,455 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »
    Yep, many hurdles that would have to be overcome. Canteen facilities. Report on prime time last night described 45 mins of day spent handwashing etc

    Loved the comment calling it like a crime scene with all taped off areas!!


  • #2866
    wazzer1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 336 ✭✭wazzer1


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    Probably much less of a cost than not having children go back to school and all that goes with that.

    My primary school in all its wisdom has decided that now is a good time to split and shuffle some classes.

    So not only will this mean those kids probably going back to strange arrangements but now they will be going through it without a lot of their usual school friends making it an even less appetising option.

    The school does this from time to time depending on teacher numbers so some of these classes will have already been split and reorganised previously.

    This is not a good time to do this, it's quite a big deal for young children and a lot of them will be upset.

    That just shows me how little student welfare comes into any decision thats made.

    That's ridiculous. My young fella is on the lower end of the spectrum, he started junior infants in Sept 19 and it was really tough getting him settled. But at least we were told last week he'll have the same teacher and class mates for next year so hes delighted.


  • #2867
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Joe McHugh yesterday I think was laying the foundation for a full, practically unrestricted return to schools in September. Saying that he had no interest in a half-return. All of the data is saying schools are low risk, all of the evidence from other countries. The only ones unwilling to be drawn on saying anything useful are NPHET.

    Discussion about social distancing indicates that maintaining it in the classroom is functionally not a possibility anyway. In order to do so, you'd need to split up classes. This will require either more teachers or half days for kids. Neither of which are really a possibility in primary.

    Weddings will be permitted in August, as will other large gatherings. Kids will be playing with cousins and neighbours. It makes no sense to single out schools as special places for ultra-strict measures.

    Rearrange the layout of desks/rooms so kids aren't coughing in eachother's faces. Put down a hygiene protocol that requires all kids to wash their hands every time they enter the room, and where schools isolate kids who even appear slightly sick and send them home.

    To minimise mingling, you stagger start/end times of classes, and stagger yard times so only one class at a time goes out. Even then you're only doing that for the benefit of the adults at the school gate, not the kids.


  • #2868
    daydorunrun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 784 ✭✭✭daydorunrun


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/coronavirus-hse-experts-support-the-early-reopening-of-schools-1.4265176?mode=amp

    Let the battle commence!

    “You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.” Homer.



  • #2869
    MerlinSouthDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭MerlinSouthDub


    WAW wrote: »
    F*ck that craic. If schools don't open normally in September, parents should revolt.
    Absolutely no reason they shouldn't but I agree the Dept. Of Education are woefully weak and inadequate in this period. There were plenty of ways the LC could have gone ahead and they blew that. Hopefully McHugh will have learned something from that fiasco and do a better job and grow a pair and insist the schools reopen as normal.

    Hopefully we will have a stronger willed Minister for Education in the new government. I can't see McHugh pushing hard on anything.


  • #2870
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    wazzer1 wrote: »
    That's ridiculous. My young fella is on the lower end of the spectrum, he started junior infants in Sept 19 and it was really tough getting him settled. But at least we were told last week he'll have the same teacher and class mates for next year so hes delighted.

    Yep, same thing happened with this year group 2 years ago so they've already been split before.

    It's very upsetting for them, not only have they not had school for months but now their class (as they know it) is gone altogether.

    I know it has to be done but it shouldnt be a regular thing and I actually don't think they could have picked a worse time.

    I really don't think that the school cares about the welfare of students at all. Just a number and a box ticking exercise for them.


  • #2871
    annoyedgal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 781 ✭✭✭annoyedgal


    Classes being spilt into multi grades is an unfortunate consequence of teacher numbers which are based on the number of pupils in the school.
    Happened to ours when we dropped below a certain number. An absolute pain for schools, teachers as well as parents and kids. Lots of benefits once it's set up well but it is an unfortuate time to be starting it.
    Completely outside the control of your school. There was a time when an SET teacher could be used to take a class but that time is gone and the department very strict about that not happening anymore.
    However in the current situation some flexibility around SET teachers to reduce class sizes could maybe be considered as a temporary measure. So your school's situation could change yet before September. Really impossible to say how September will look at the moment as we have no guidelines to work with yet.


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  • #2872
    daydorunrun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 784 ✭✭✭daydorunrun


    If schools are going to be reduced by half in terms of capacity and kids out on ‘blended’ learning then the school year needs to be synced to the working year. Having kids in school part time and then still having 2/3 months off will lead to a massive drop in education standards.

    “You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.” Homer.



  • #2873
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    daydorunrun wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/coronavirus-hse-experts-support-the-early-reopening-of-schools-1.4265176?mode=amp

    Let the battle commence!

    Wow, interesting how low the risk seems to be.

    "At the time there were three confirmed cases of coronavirus involving three students, and a further three among adults in school settings.

    The research found there was no confirmed transmission of the virus from these six cases to a total of 1,025 child and adult contacts in primary and secondary schools".


  • #2874
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,797 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    daydorunrun wrote: »
    If schools are going to be reduced by half in terms of capacity and kids out on ‘blended’ learning then the school year needs to be synced to the working year. Having kids in school part time and then still having 2/3 months off will lead to a massive drop in education standards.

    Will they pay teachers extra for working the extra time?

    More info on global research on schools etc below



  • #2875
    daydorunrun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 784 ✭✭✭daydorunrun


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    Wow, interesting how low the risk seems to be.

    "At the time there were three confirmed cases of coronavirus involving three students, and a further three among adults in school settings.

    The research found there was no confirmed transmission of the virus from these six cases to a total of 1,025 child and adult contacts in primary and secondary schools".

    Absolutely, but there are still some who think that if there is a risk of one teacher/pupil getting sick schools should stay closed. Perhaps we should put out a call around the world to get ex pat teachers home to help out like we did with doctors and nurses.

    “You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.” Homer.



  • #2876
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,797 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    daydorunrun wrote: »
    Absolutely, but there are still some who think that if there is a risk of one teacher/pupil getting sick schools should stay closed. Perhaps we should put out a call around the world to get ex pat teachers home to help out like we did with doctors and nurses.

    And then not employ them like they did with most returning nurses. Be some trick to do that twice


  • #2877
    daydorunrun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 784 ✭✭✭daydorunrun


    jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »
    Will they pay teachers extra for working the extra time?

    More info on global research on schools etc below

    https://twitter.com/susmitchellSBP/status/1266121478636032000?s=19

    Wouldn’t expect them to work for no pay! Also wouldn’t expect them to get paid twice.

    “You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.” Homer.



  • #2878
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,797 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    daydorunrun wrote: »
    Wouldn’t expect them to work for no pay! Also wouldn’t expect them to get paid twice.

    Presume state wud pay month salary as a kind of bonus if they did that extra month, prob be fairest way


  • #2879
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,498 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    daydorunrun wrote: »
    Wouldn’t expect them to work for no pay! Also wouldn’t expect them to get paid twice.

    No one should get paid twice. But would be a very expensive approach to add in an extra month or so for teaching. Govt would have to cough up a lot of money to fund it.

    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



  • #2880
    daydorunrun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 784 ✭✭✭daydorunrun


    jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »
    And then not employ them like they did with most returning nurses. Be some trick to do that twice

    Haven’t seen that they weren’t offered jobs? Have you any details on that? It’s different with teachers anyway as there are a fair few who won’t want to go back as they might feel at risk (or high risk families at home) health care workers are used to those potential issue.

    “You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.” Homer.



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  • #2881
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,797 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    daydorunrun wrote: »
    Haven’t seen that they weren’t offered jobs? Have you any details on that? It’s different with teachers anyway as there are a fair few who won’t want to go back as they might feel at risk (or high risk families at home) health care workers are used to those potential issue.


    https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/coronavirus-ireland-just-54-health-staff-put-to-work-despite-73000-answering-irelands-call-39172582.html


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