How will schools be able to go back in September?

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Conelan wrote: »

Schools don't have to justify anything, they are instructed to remain closed until told otherwise. There is no school making a decision on their own and having to justify anything. You do understand that I guess.

Well let's hope they are able do what they are told then with minimal drama or fuss from unions.

FishOnABike

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/coronavirus-france-school-cases-reopen-lockdown-a9520386.html.

70 cases of CoViD-19 linked to schools only days after reopening in France causing a number of schools to be closed again. This is in the 'green areas' which have a lower rate of CoViD-19 and classes limited to 15 students.

Those pushing for schools to reopen soon because other countries in Europe are doing it so why can't we, need to realise that their reopening was a restricted reopening with approx 30% of students returning and has still lead to schools having to be closed again within days. When schools reopen here it will have to be very different to how they operated up to now.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

FishOnABike wrote: »

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/coronavirus-france-school-cases-reopen-lockdown-a9520386.html.

70 cases of CoViD-19 linked to schools only days after reopening in France causing a number of schools to be closed again. This is in the 'green areas' which have a lower rate of CoViD-19 and classes limited to 15 students.

Those pushing for schools to reopen soon because other countries in Europe are doing it so why can't we, need to realise that their reopening was a restricted reopening with approx 30% of students returning and has still lead to schools having to be closed again within days. When schools reopen here it will have to be very different to how they operated up to now.

Been discussed before, most of those cases were infected before the schools reopened.

https://fullfact.org/health/france-school-coronavirus

Reopening schools has not led to significant increase in cases.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/18/french-minister-tells-of-risks-of-missing-school-as-more-pupils-return-covid-19

marilynrr

Benimar wrote: »

If Social Distancing is in place in September (which I believe it will be) there is no chance of Schools ignoring it.

If individual people want to go against advice thats on them. Schools won't want to expose themselves to issues if there is a spike and they have ignored SD.

It's all very well having social distancing in place but if the building is not equipped to deal with it then it will be ignored. They will follow the rules they can follow and have to ignore the rules/guidelines they cannot.

School buildings are not equipped to be spread out like that, and then there's 100s of students are heading from classroom to classroom and mixing with other people in their year every 45 minutes.
Then there are the school buses, social distancing will not be possible! and it's even worse on the buses because they normally service a few schools.
There isn't enough buses or drivers around to cope with social distancing for schools......and even if there was would the department of education source buses only for students with the bus pass, my son goes on a private bus, it was hard enough for the parents to arrange that!

There's no realistic way to implement social distancing in schools so they will just have to open regardless!

timmy_mallet

marilynrr wrote: »

It's all very well having social distancing in place but if the building is not equipped to deal with it then it will be ignored. They will follow the rules they can follow and have to ignore the rules/guidelines they cannot.

School buildings are not equipped to be spread out like that, and then there's 100s of students are heading from classroom to classroom and mixing with other people in their year every 45 minutes.
Then there are the school buses, social distancing will not be possible! and it's even worse on the buses because they normally service a few schools.
There isn't enough buses or drivers around to cope with social distancing for schools......and even if there was would the department of education source buses only for students with the bus pass, my son goes on a private bus, it was hard enough for the parents to arrange that!

There's no realistic way to implement social distancing in schools so they will just have to open regardless!

The government, the CMO, the HSE, the Dep. of Ed. will have themselves in a complete cover-their-ar$e-muddle over this, that there will be no school in Ireland for the foreseeable future.

I mean, its still 2 months from the proposed Leaving Cert exam dates, and just look at that fiasco.

Not one of the stakeholders in this is willing to take the risk. We can forget it about. Prepare yerselves for home-schooling. I am.

BonsaiKitten

Absolutely Marilyn. It's all well and good to say "well schools will just have to social distance" (and I fully expect the Dept to just issue that as advice a few days before schools return). The issue is...how? Where do you put the kids? Are all of our classrooms now the tardis and much bigger inside? Or are we conjuring up a horde of extra teachers and classrooms to put children in?

That is before you begin to think about transport, breaktimes, collection/drop off, switching classes (for secondary)...it is not feasible.

Like I said though I fully expect the Dept to prepare to blame the schools though when social distancing does not work.

jrosen

Ive already sent my opinions to my local TD's, emailed the minister for education also.

I had my 2nd year crying this morning because he could not figure out his math. There has been NO on line teaching. He has had about 5 zoom classes in all since they broke up in March. Now there is a steady stream of work coming in but he has had no teaching time.

Now unless something drastic changes over the summer and somehow Irish schools figure out how to fully engage and teach remotely then there is no doubt this is going to have a detrimental impact on students education.

Spanish Eyes

timmy_mallet wrote: »

The government, the CMO, the HSE, the Dep. of Ed. will have themselves in a complete cover-their-ar$e-muddle over this, that there will be no school in Ireland for the foreseeable future.

I mean, its still 2 months from the proposed Leaving Cert exam dates, and just look at that fiasco.

Not one of the stakeholders in this is willing to take the risk. We can forget it about. Prepare yerselves for home-schooling. I am.

Leaving Cert exams in "normal" times would commence next week. Those who opt out of the predicted grate system can sit the LC later in the year, but when that will be, no one knows, and AFAIK those dissatisfied with their predicted grade result can also sit the LC later. But am not sure about that.

The reopening of schools without social distancing may cause teachers, SNAs etc. to pick it up from asymptomatic kids. Then they bring it home and the cycle starts all over again.

I know other countries have opened their schools, but some of the methods like pods, squares in the playground and teachers behind screens sounds worse than being home schooled TBH. And I know not all countries are doing this, but they have blended learning and short attendance days.

Anyway with a bit of luck the virus may die out and it's all systems go by September. Get your novenas ready!

SusanC10

jrosen wrote: »

Ive already sent my opinions to my local TD's, emailed the minister for education also.

I had my 2nd year crying this morning because he could not figure out his math. There has been NO on line teaching. He has had about 5 zoom classes in all since they broke up in March. Now there is a steady stream of work coming in but he has had no teaching time.

Now unless something drastic changes over the summer and somehow Irish schools figure out how to fully engage and teach remotely then there is no doubt this is going to have a detrimental impact on students education.

We seem to have been very lucky with both schools - Primary and Secondary.

Though from talking to other friends etc, it does seem to be very hit and miss.

Our son had live online Maths classes twice a week with other pre-recorded ones too. The Teacher finished this morning with a recap Class where the Students emailed in any topics they had difficulties with since school shut.
I thought it was great.

Boggles

average_runner wrote: »

Thats not true, my dad got tested on Tuesday and results were in today.
All good, Took my brother two days to his results also.


Results are coming through alot quicker now. If it was taking two weeks, heads would be rolling by now

FFS. :rolleyes:

Your Dad didn't get infected on Tuesday, if he did indeed test positive.

What exactly is confusing you?

This is not my opinion, it's the opinion of Professor Nolan, the guy who collates those stats you have claimed you can predict into the future.

He can't predict what is happening today, he stated again this evening that we won't know the effect of easing of the restrictions until next week.

uli84

jrosen wrote: »

Ive already sent my opinions to my local TD's, emailed the minister for education also.

I had my 2nd year crying this morning because he could not figure out his math. There has been NO on line teaching. He has had about 5 zoom classes in all since they broke up in March. Now there is a steady stream of work coming in but he has had no teaching time.

Now unless something drastic changes over the summer and somehow Irish schools figure out how to fully engage and teach remotely then there is no doubt this is going to have a detrimental impact on students education.

Can you pm me or post here the relevant email address? I have same problem

mirrorwall14

jrosen wrote: »

Ive already sent my opinions to my local TD's, emailed the minister for education also.

I had my 2nd year crying this morning because he could not figure out his math. There has been NO on line teaching. He has had about 5 zoom classes in all since they broke up in March. Now there is a steady stream of work coming in but he has had no teaching time.

Now unless something drastic changes over the summer and somehow Irish schools figure out how to fully engage and teach remotely then there is no doubt this is going to have a detrimental impact on students education.

Just on the maths, triple check he has actually contacted his teacher to say this. If the teacher doesn’t know they can’t help.

I prerecord me doing all my classes with me recording all the examples etc. I can’t do live because I have two children to mind here but I’m available for emails and I record answers to their questions when I can and send them back etc.

However, based on the work I was receiving and the comments I was getting about it being very hard I ran a test via loom. Only 1/3 of the class was actually bothering to watch the corrections or demonstrations. They were just having a bash at it and telling me it was too hard. The standard of work went right up and their stress down after they were pulled up on doing that.

Not suggesting that’s going on here but definitely get communication open with the teacher if you can

marilynrr

timmy_mallet wrote: »

The government, the CMO, the HSE, the Dep. of Ed. will have themselves in a complete cover-their-ar$e-muddle over this, that there will be no school in Ireland for the foreseeable future.

I mean, its still 2 months from the proposed Leaving Cert exam dates, and just look at that fiasco.

Not one of the stakeholders in this is willing to take the risk. We can forget it about. Prepare yerselves for home-schooling. I am.

A decision had to be made for the leaving cert to allow students to progress to third level and to avoid a massive impact on their mental health.

Schools will be open all over the EU, there's no way that the Irish schools will stay closed.

jrosen

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Just on the maths, triple check he has actually contacted his teacher to say this. If the teacher doesn’t know they can’t help.

I prerecord me doing all my classes with me recording all the examples etc. I can’t do live because I have two children to mind here but I’m available for emails and I record answers to their questions when I can and send them back etc.

However, based on the work I was receiving and the comments I was getting about it being very hard I ran a test via loom. Only 1/3 of the class was actually bothering to watch the corrections or demonstrations. They were just having a bash at it and telling me it was too hard. The standard of work went right up and their stress down after they were pulled up on doing that.

Not suggesting that’s going on here but definitely get communication open with the teacher if you can

Thank you, I actually did make sure because often suggestions fall on deaf ears. She is responsive to be fair to her but her response has been to look at the examples in the book. I think he is just missing the class, the opportunity to ask a question when he is stuck.

FishOnABike

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Been discussed before, most of those cases were infected before the schools reopened.

https://fullfact.org/health/france-school-coronavirus

Reopening schools has not led to significant increase in cases.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/18/french-minister-tells-of-risks-of-missing-school-as-more-pupils-return-covid-19

It doesn't really change the point I was trying to make - schools on the continent are being opened on a restricted basis and some have still had to close due to CoViD-19 cases being detected.

A level comparable to their restricted opening would be a bigger step for us as it would be further away from our normal school routine than theirs.

When we do reopen schools there needs to be clear guidelines on how to respond if there are any CoViD-19 cases detected in a school. In a large school it could happen several times unless we eliminate the virus completely, and I don't think eliminating it completely is very likely.

The article does say "Given that the incubation period for the virus is several days, people are “likely” to have been infected before the reopening of the schools" It's a bit early for another week or so to judge the extent, if any, of any onward viral transmission in the schools where cases occurred.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

FishOnABike wrote: »

It doesn't really change the point I was trying to make - schools on the continent are being opened on a restricted basis and some have still had to close due to CoViD-19 cases being detected.

A level comparable to their restricted opening would be a bigger step for us as it would be further away from our normal school routine than theirs.

When we do reopen schools there needs to be clear guidelines on how to respond if there are any CoViD-19 cases detected in a school. In a large school it could happen several times unless we eliminate the virus completely, and I don't think eliminating it completely is very likely.

The article does say "Given that the incubation period for the virus is several days, people are “likely” to have been infected before the reopening of the schools" It's a bit early for another week or so to judge the extent, if any, of any onward viral transmission in the schools where cases occurred.

Well given that France will have had a whopping 15 week headstart on our schools here there are bound to be some hiccups. At least we'll have the benefit of seeing what every other school in Europe has done by the time ours are opened back up.

With the exception of maybe Italy who will open in September, a few weeks ago for Italy it was suggested half of the students going to school for half a week, then alternating, with the half at home keeping up with their lessons through distance learning. That didn't go down well at all and there was uproar.

Fast testing and contact tracing will eliminate the need for schools to close for any lengthy period again.

iamwhoiam

I genuinely don’t understand how the Minister doesn’t get that a big percentage of parents cannot stay at home a few days a week . If the economy is open and people are back in work there will be many parents unable to stay home during school hours .
He talks about a two or three day week with online teaching etc , which in a ideal world might work but its not always feasible for working parents including teachers

ldy4mxonucwsq6

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I genuinely don’t understand how the Minister doesn’t get that a big percentage of parents cannot stay at home a few days a week . If the economy is open and people are back in work there will be many parents unable to stay home during school hours .
He talks about a two or three day week with online teaching etc , which in a ideal world might work but its not always feasible for working parents including teachers

Absolutely, and by September we'll have already had 6 months of parents trying to juggle things.

They will probably have used up any leave they might have and most employers will be expecting them to be getting back to normal.

There is no way that the economy has a hope to restart any time soon if parents can't go to work.

Job losses are already happening, billions paid out in covid payments, limited economic activity for months on end, the country will be on its knees.

I do think they did a good job of containing the virus but the lifting of restrictions is too slow, nothing should be shut down any longer than was necessary.

There's no information for those on the Covid payment about what's happening after next week, no childcare available for working parents it's slowly turning into a mess.

FixdePitchmark

Complete and utter madness from the minister who has called everything wrong so far.

Why even say it at this point. Wait and see how June and July pans out.

I've been very compliant , but someone would want to put a shape on this - kids need to go to school - you can not home school any longer.

I don't give a **** - dropping kids to school in September - I'm not picking them up till normal pick up time.

marilynrr

FishOnABike wrote: »

It doesn't really change the point I was trying to make - schools on the continent are being opened on a restricted basis and some have still had to close due to CoViD-19 cases being detected.

Schools can't operate on a restricted basis forever though.

The world was kind of in shock when this started taking hold in Europe and especially with what was going on in Italy so it was easy enough to get people to go along with lockdowns and shutdowns!
There's no way at all that the Irish government would have been able to impose a lockdown on the citizens except for it had been already implemented in other countries. It was easy in Ireland because many people were actually crying out for a lockdown demanding the government do it. I know many businesses who closed even before they were forced to.

The government was only ever going to get one shot at a strict lockdown, we can see now that a lot of people have already had enough of it and are going back to normal life.

Most businesses will be back by the time school is back, people won't accept another lockdown. They just won't. Business owners who have struggled through are not going to accept another lockdown coming up to the Christmas season..so most things are going to be back up and running with the exception of maybe pubs or events with large numbers of people.

We can't have a situation where the rest of society is allowed to go on as normal (with some social distancing and extra hygiene etc.) but that kids are not allowed to go to school!! especially when we are being told that they're not even a huge part of the problem!!

kandr10

marilynrr wrote: »

Schools can't operate on a restricted basis forever though.

The world was kind of in shock when this started taking hold in Europe and especially with what was going on in Italy so it was easy enough to get people to go along with lockdowns and shutdowns!
There's no way at all that the Irish government would have been able to impose a lockdown on the citizens except for it had been already implemented in other countries. It was easy in Ireland because many people were actually crying out for a lockdown demanding the government do it. I know many businesses who closed even before they were forced to.

The government was only ever going to get one shot at a strict lockdown, we can see now that a lot of people have already had enough of it and are going back to normal life.

Most businesses will be back by the time school is back, people won't accept another lockdown. They just won't. Business owners who have struggled through are not going to accept another lockdown coming up to the Christmas season..so most things are going to be back up and running with the exception of maybe pubs or events with large numbers of people.

We can't have a situation where the rest of society is allowed to go on as normal (with some social distancing and extra hygiene etc.) but that kids are not allowed to go to school!! especially when we are being told that they're not even a huge part of the problem!!

But on the other hand, why should you have a situation where ‘therest of society is allowed to go on as normal with some social distancing and extra hygiene etc’ But these simple measures aren’t in place in schools?
If it was the case that social distancing had been gotten rid of entirely by September, I’d be saying absolutely no need for it in school. But if it’s a part of how businesses reopen then it has to be part of schools reopening too.

marilynrr

kandr10 wrote: »

But on the other hand, why should you have a situation where ‘therest of society is allowed to go on as normal with some social distancing and extra hygiene etc’ But these simple measures aren’t in place in schools?
If it was the case that social distancing had been gotten rid of entirely by September, I’d be saying absolutely no need for it in school. But if it’s a part of how businesses reopen then it has to be part of schools reopening too.

By September social distancing is not expected (going by the guidelines for reopening) to be the same as it is now. Society will have reopened with some social distancing but not nearly as strict as they have been.

It will be possible to run most businesses while implementing some kind of softer social distancing controls than we have now. Some businesses may not run at full capacity or may be down profits because of that etc, but they will still be able to open.

It won't be possible to implement it in schools because it's a building where X amount of people have to be there at the same time in rooms that are not big enough to ensure 2m distancing....but they should implement whatever measures that they can actually implement such as extra hygiene.

kandr10

marilynrr wrote: »

By September social distancing is not expected (going by the guidelines for reopening) to be the same as it is now. Society will have reopened with some social distancing but not nearly as strict as they have been.

It will be possible to run most businesses while implementing some kind of softer social distancing controls than we have now. Some businesses may not run at full capacity or may be down profits because of that etc, but they will still be able to open.

It won't be possible to implement it in schools because it's a building where X amount of people have to be there at the same time in rooms that are not big enough to ensure 2m distancing....but they should implement whatever measures that they can actually implement such as extra hygiene.

I understand that it may be softer in terms of how strict they advise us to be with regards social distancing, but my point still stands. If it exists at all in the rest of society, why would you not implement it in schools? It’s either safe to do away with it or it’s not. It can’t be deemed safe in one setting and not in another.

marilynrr

kandr10 wrote: »

I understand that it may be softer in terms of how strict they advise us to be with regards social distancing, but my point still stands. If it exists at all in the rest of society, why would you not implement it in schools? It’s either safe to do away with it or it’s not. It can’t be deemed safe in one setting and not in another.

It should be implemented in schools to the extent that it can be implemented. Unfortunately that means that in many cases it won't be possible to do much at all.
But of course out of all the measures that are introduced schools should practice whichever ones they actually are able to comply with.

It's not about deeming it to be safe in one setting and not another. No one is saying ah f*ck it, schools will be grand, let's not bother make them bother implementing any measures even though they can. The reality is that it's just not possible!

daydorunrun

Whatever about opening schools in September, with the low ro rates and good weather they should allow 6th classes around the country return to school for a graduation ceremony to mark the end of primary school- it just the right thing to do........f**k zoom and virtual graduations, let them mark their right of passage.

Sammy2012

I know people keep talking about French schools but they will be closing again for summer holidays the 1st week of July. German schools the end of June. Schools here will be closing the end of June. My school is closing the 25th of June so there is only maximum of 4 weeks left in school and then it will be holidays. Children have missed 1/3 of the school year. Which is alot but it's not 6 months. It amounts to around 60 school days so in total around 12 weeks of school. Alot of schools were to be closed next week anyway. I understand there is problems but no very few countries have opened schools schools back fully. They have alot of restrictions in place. English schools are opening on Monday and if that picture of the hula hoop play circle is real I know where my kids would rather be.

I would he hoping that school can reopen as normal in September. We can all go back and have good hygiene practices in place and hopefully start off on the right foot. This may not be possible but we still have 3 months to work that out.

Dickie10

Its as clear as day that tony and co will be under savage preesure come mid june to bring in 1 meter guidelines, prob settle on 1.5 but its only matter of time. under 1 meter a lot of problems will be catered for, schools, transport, business, hospitality.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Dickie10 wrote: »

Its as clear as day that tony and co will be under savage preesure come mid june to bring in 1 meter guidelines, prob settle on 1.5 but its only matter of time. under 1 meter a lot of problems will be catered for, schools, transport, business, hospitality.

People will just stop listening to them, we've done what was needed now its time to move on.

It's been 11 weeks since the schools closed heralding the start of the lockdown measures. People have cooperated and thankfully for the most part we've done a good job.

Most of Europe have prioritised reopening schools and recognise the importance of this as part of the economy and yet our minister for education just states the obvious.

Its hard to believe that we began shutting down our country 3 months ago and we have 332 deaths per million of population, Sweden who didn't lockdown have 423 deaths per million of population. I just wonder was it all a bit too much considering the impact it will have on our country for years to come.

khalessi

daydorunrun wrote: »

Whatever about opening schools in September, with the low ro rates and good weather they should allow 6th classes around the country return to school for a graduation ceremony to mark the end of primary school- it just the right thing to do........f**k zoom and virtual graduations, let them mark their right of passage.

While this would be a lovely idea, the difficulty would be the amount of people gathered in the one spot. In my school generally each graduate is told 2 people allowed to accompany them but they always bring more, so thats 120 kids and family and staff could be close to 500 in the room. Bringing them back would not give them the experience that other years have but instead only emphasise the difference. I would love them to have something special though. We are doing a virtual graduation with some celebs wishing them luck but it isnt the same. Doing it outside is not an option due to lack of space.

wirelessdude01

Honest question, since when did 6th class graduations become so important?

Last year half of the 6th class didn't bother turning up. Some were on family holidays, some were at sports training and matches and some just didn't bother turning up at all.

I could go through the current 6th class in our school and tell you at least 6/7 of them who definitely wouldn't bother their backsides turning up.

This issue seems to have become a litmus test of whether people can bend the will of Tony and Leo and force them into allowing something.