How will schools be able to go back in September?

caveat emptor

caveat emptor wrote: »

Do you professionally bury posts and say it'll be grand or is it just a hobby?

You are not a doctor. Telling people to go into work with a "sniffle" during a pandemic where there is proven asymptomatic transmission and large range of severity of illness and symptoms is highly irresponsible.

That is actually the complete opposite of what I have said.

downthemiddle

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So what’s your solution then if not to leave schools closed? Compromises and difficult choices will be required. But the alternative is not to open the schools at all

The solution was meant to be in the document. The solution provided is to deprive the most vulnerable of their right to an education. Do you think this “difficult choice “ is acceptable?

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Really? Have you a link for that?

The HSE say



Obviously people in a hospital get them far quicker.

12-24 hours according to the HSE.

So what is the actual turnaround of a community test in Ireland now?



But the measures that contributed to flu decline in Australia will not remain in place here.

Did you actually read your link?



We are fully opening schools coming into flu season.

Also the vast vast amount of symptoms that will require testing are not caused by the Flu.

#science

Do you not agree that improved sanitation, social distancing, those who can work from home continuing to do so, masks indoors etc etc etc will not reduce the occurrence of other respiratory illnesses? How is that?

#science

xhomelezz

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Why have none of these classroom ventilation?

Maybe some have, but not all. Unless you count windows.

Lillyfae

downthemiddle wrote: »

The solution was meant to be in the document. The solution provided is to deprive the most vulnerable of their right to an education. Do you think this “difficult choice “ is acceptable?

Of course it's not acceptable, but what's your alternative? Only educate the most vulnerable, or educate everyone to the best possible standard under the current circumstances for as long as is necessary??

lulublue22

Lillyfae wrote: »

I know you're a latecomer to the thread, but have a read over it. I'm not going back through to find it for you, but iirc it was about a week ago. The principal told their vice principal and staff that they would be doing no organizing of anything, and it was up to them.

To others, I'm not going to multi-quote you, but it is already happening. From people popping off to Portugal for a few weeks holidays, to going to work with mild symptoms, to having house parties, to being pressured by employers to get back in the office when 100% of the work can be done at home. Why would the school environment be any different?

That is very different to stating guidelines being very loosely applied by stake holders so that the pandemic can flare up again and schools can close. Particularly in the context of this discussion on the guidelines issued by the dep.

Alrigghtythen

xhomelezz wrote: »

Maybe some have, but not all. Unless you count windows.

Why wouldn't the windows be counted? I'd be odd to leave them out

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you not agree that improved sanitation, social distancing, those who can work from home continuing to do so, masks indoors etc etc etc will not reduce the occurrence of other respiratory illnesses? How is that?

#science

There is no recommendation for 1.1 million to wear masks in schools, schools as your link stated are a major contributor to the spread of respiratory illnesses. As are hospitals, there was 180 people on trolleys yesterday in July.

But tangents.

Could you back up your claim a community referral test is turned around in 24 hours on average?

jimmytwotimes 2013

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Do you not agree that improved sanitation, social distancing, those who can work from home continuing to do so, masks indoors etc etc etc will not reduce the occurrence of other respiratory illnesses? How is that?

#science

But there won't be social distancing is the problem. Each student who spoke on Prime Time last night said its going to be near impossible to SD at their schools.

Closing the schools isn't a option but some thinking outside the box wud help.

A full return and hope for the best isn't good enuf either

What's annoying is, when you describe concerns or point out what could have been done much better, you're just accused of not wanting to work

These 'guidelines' are thrown together and we could do much better in trying to protect all concerned

jimmytwotimes 2013

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Why wouldn't the windows be counted? I'd be odd to leave them out

Windows are to be left open at all times I assume, classroom doors too.

According to the classroom plan diagrams, we'll have students stuck to the walls by the windows so I hope they bring good coats for the winter months, it'll be freezing

caveat emptor

Deleted User wrote: »

Short of locking everyone in their homes, we can’t eliminate all opportunities for infection, so we go after the most likely- droplets at close contact and /or left on surfaces for short periods through poor sanitation. Make a large impact on these and the remainder do not cause a major issue

You are deliberately presenting a limited set of choices.....continually.

• locking people in homes
• closing schools for 4 years.

It's all balderdash and it's dangerous. Telling teachers to man up buttercup.

Minimising the role of science in understanding this.
Polluting the thread with nothingness.

If this is your job then no worries carry on.

There are alternatives.
You don't have to just float with the flotsam.
Sometimes you have to jettison the jetsam though.
This plan being part of the latter.

FFS even Sinn Fein and the DUP are in agreement.
Makes Michael and Leo look like a pair of muppets / PUPPETS.

https://twitter.com/GabrielScally/status/1286682752268541952?s=20

Alrigghtythen

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Windows are to be left open at all times I assume, classroom doors too.

According to the classroom plan diagrams, we'll have students stuck to the walls by the windows so I hope they bring good coats for the winter months, it'll be freezing

They all be getting coats for christmas

Boggles

If they open the windows in the prefabs it will be hypothermia not Covid that will get them.

lulublue22

Lillyfae wrote: »

Of course it's not acceptable, but what's your alternative? Only educate the most vulnerable, or educate everyone to the best possible standard under the current circumstances for as long as is necessary??

If SET is to be pulled at will then we are not educating everyone to the best of our ability. We are constantly pulling resources from those that need it most. How about a limit on the amount of times SET could be pulled and instead the class sent home? Fairer to everyone now - all bearing a share of the pain no ? No way why ? because if classes were sent home - there would be uproar. Parents wouldn't be long seeing the shambles of our sub system. Much easier to pull from those who don’t cause a fuss.

BonsaiKitten

To all teachers on thread, I hope you've prepared your inbox for the inevitable "my Sneachta needs to be in a pod with Fuinneog and Realtín" emails

https://www.facebook.com/307568483030995/posts/1001947273593109/

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

There is no recommendation for 1.1 million to wear masks in schools, schools as your link stated are a major contributor to the spread of respiratory illnesses. As are hospitals, there was 180 people on trolleys yesterday in July.

But tangents.

Could you back up your claim a community referral test is turned around in 24 hours on average?

Closest I can find is median referral to result of 1.8 days last week. So test turnaround must be less than that

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0722/1154807-covid19-coronavirus-ireland/

Now do you honestly believe the measures that will remain in place when schools return will not reduce the spread of all respiratory infections this winter? Infections that get into school don’t just appear, they are carried in by what is going on in wider society and the difference in how we will be living our lives over the next while are going to have a significant impact on all transmissible illnesses

khalessi

Well a friend of mine got tested in Monaghan last week and it took 5 days to get results and he was off work very annoyed for a week.

caveat emptor

caveat emptor wrote: »

You are deliberately presenting a limited set of choices.....continually.

• locking people in homes
• closing schools for 4 years.

It's all balderdash and it's dangerous. Telling teachers to man up buttercup.

Minimising the role of science in understanding this.
Polluting the thread with nothingness.

If this is your job then no worries carry on.

There are alternatives.
You don't have to just float with the flotsam.
Sometimes you have to jettison the jetsam though.
This plan being part of the latter.

FFS even Sinn Fein and the DUP are in agreement.
Makes Michael and Leo look like a pair of muppets / PUPPETS.

https://twitter.com/GabrielScally/status/1286682752268541952?s=20

Where are the scientists decrying our return to school plans? It’s mainly teachers and parents from what I see.

The anti science are those who presents single tweets as evidence, or even those who go to the trouble of creating fake tweets. Any on this thread done that at any stage in these forums Caveat?

Lillyfae

lulublue22 wrote: »

If SET is to be pulled at will then we are not educating everyone to the best of our ability. We are constantly pulling resources from those that need it most. How about a limit on the amount of times SET could be pulled and instead the class sent home? Fairer to everyone now - all bearing a share of the pain no ? No way why ? because if classes were sent home - there would be uproar. Parents wouldn't be long seeing the shambles of our sub system. Much easier to pull from those who don’t cause a fuss.

To be honest my preference for a teacher having to isolate would be for the class to isolate too and have online lessons for the length of time. I hope there's a better infrastructure available for that soon.

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

To all teachers on thread, I hope you've prepared your inbox for the inevitable "my Sneachta needs to be in a pod with Fuinneog and Realtín" emails

https://www.facebook.com/307568483030995/posts/1001947273593109/

And they say there's an attitude towards teachers :P

jrosen

Contact tracing will be used, important to encourage all secondary school kids who have phones (which is usually all) to download the app. Will make things faster and easier when they return.

We will just have to accept we will see classes sent home, we will possibly see individual schools close too.

But we are not dealing with small kids either at secondary level, they are old enough to have the risk explained to them. They need to take some personal responsibility too and follow guidelines.
The schools will need to implement rules around movement within their schools, be it close locker rooms, keep kids in their home room class and have the teachers move? That in itself will keep movement to a minimum. Teachers will need to sanitize down the desks as they use them in class, carry a pencil case, use only their own stuff. Perhaps even changing the time table to have more double classes? I know its long but again less movement.

jrosen

jrosen wrote: »

Contact tracing will be used, important to encourage all secondary school kids who have phones (which is usually all) to download the app. Will make things faster and easier when they return.

We will just have to accept we will see classes sent home, we will possibly see individual schools close too.

But we are not dealing with small kids either at secondary level, they are old enough to have the risk explained to them. They need to take some personal responsibility too and follow guidelines.
The schools will need to implement rules around movement within their schools, be it close locker rooms, keep kids in their home room class and have the teachers move? That in itself will keep movement to a minimum. Teachers will need to sanitize down the desks as they use them in class, carry a pencil case, use only their own stuff. Perhaps even changing the time table to have more double classes? I know its long but again less movement.

Excellent post

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

Closest I can find is median referral to result of 1.8 days last week. So test turnaround must be less than that

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0722/1154807-covid19-coronavirus-ireland/

So nearly 2 days with very little community testing. At the moment, so you believe that can be improved on coming into the Autumn / Winter?

I am pretty sure it won't.

Deleted User wrote: »

Now do you honestly believe the measures that will remain in place when schools return will not reduce the spread of all respiratory infections this winter?

I honestly believe the lack of measures that are in place for schools will reseed Covid 19 in the community and play a significant role in re-implementing National Restrictions.

I am less worried about the common cold TBH.

ChelseaRentBoy

Deleted User wrote: »

Because currently we are averaging just over 24 hours, and have capacity to complete 100k per week. Because the measures that remain in place and the wider public awareness will prevent the type of surge seen in March. Less opportunity for infections less infections. Because the same measures that reduce COVID will also reduce other respiratory infection such has already been seen in the Australian flu season.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-23/coronavirus-restrictions-cause-flu-cases-to-drop-australia/12480190

#Science

My wife works in healthcare and it takes between 2-4 days to get results. She get's tested every Friday and she's had results on a Monday and at times it's taken a full week to return them although that is rare now. On average it's 3 days not 24hrs

Boggles

jrosen wrote: »

Contact tracing will be used, important to encourage all secondary school kids who have phones (which is usually all) to download the app. Will make things faster and easier when they return.

That would require a legislation change.

Legal age for digital consent is 16.

Also I imagine given the close proximity of school children in and out of the school.

The App may have a heart attack trying to keep up. :pac:

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

So nearly 2 days with very little community testing. At the moment, so you believe that can be improved on coming into the Autumn / Winter?

I am pretty sure it won't.



I honestly believe the lack of measures that are in place for schools will reseed Covid 19 in the community and play a significant role in re-implementing National Restrictions.

I am less worried about the common cold TBH.

I was talking about a less than 48 hour turnaround on testing, which we are achieving and improving all the time. And also about community measures reducing the impact of all respiratory infections this winter will result in us not seeing the level of referrals seen in early March . Schools are also not isolated from society, generating cases from nowhere. What happens in schools reflects what is going on in the broader community and schools are far more likely to be seeded from outside than visa versa

BonsaiKitten

Lillyfae wrote: »

And they say there's an attitude towards teachers :P

Oh I can assure you that's rooted in reality my friend! We get a couple of these types every year in my school.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

That would require a legislation change.

Legal age for digital consent is 16.

Also I imagine given the close proximity of school children in and out of the school.

The App may have a heart attack trying to keep up. :pac:

Would require parental consent for under 16’s. Also the app only logs phones within range for 15 minutes

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

I was talking about a less than 48 hour turnaround on testing, which we are achieving and improving all the time.

You were talking 24 hours a few posts back.

We are achieving this because testing in the community is minuscule.

Deleted User wrote: »

And also about community measures reducing the impact of all respiratory infections this winter will result in us not seeing the level of referrals seen in early March . Schools are also not isolated from society, generating cases from nowhere. What happens in schools reflects what is going on in the broader community and schools are far more likely to be seeded from outside than visa versa

Schools are the broader community FFS.

More than A fifth of the population will be returning to them in 4 weeks with a "sure it will be grand".

Here is a few cent per child per day, make it work or yer to blame.

To put the "plan" in perspective, schools are saying they do not have the capacity to social distance. There is no funding our recommendations for acquiring temporary accommodation.

There is nothing in the "plan" that addresses that.

You have actual teachers that work in actual schools telling you they have zero space.

Masks are not recommended.

Do you not see how deeply flawed in logically terms the "plan" actually is?

r93kaey5p2izun

So many post primary classrooms with inadequate ventilation. I hope that will be looked at. Lots of schools have boxed off wide areas of corridors that were intended for social spaces, but are now partitioned off into a classroom. No windows other than into the corridor. Also lots of old VEC schools are designed where half the rooms have double height sloping ceilings with a strip of glass (often corrugated perspex) at ceiling height to let in light, but no actual windows that open. Apart from that the rooms might have no windows or just one the size of a box room window even in a large room.

Lillyfae

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

Oh I can assure you that's rooted in reality my friend! We get a couple of these types every year in my school.

Oh I'd say there's a few of every type in every corner of every school! I do wish there was a greater choice of Emojis on here :pac::p:cool: