Saoradh dissident republican march in Dublin

JupiterKid

So less than 48 hours after the senseless shooting dead of journalist Lyra McKee in Derry during rioting, the dissident republican group Saoradh brazenly marched through Dublin city centre yesterday.

I consider this march to be a direct affront to democracy in this country and something sinister and very unwelcome.

An insult to Lyra McKee and her partner and family and a direct challenge to our State and society.

Should they even have been allowed march?

whisky_galore

Pretty bad timing, playing dress-up down O'Connell Street.

Nothing but a fringe group, but will need watching all the same.

Zaph

Even if there had been no trouble in Derry and Lyra McKee hadn't been killed, those people shouldn't have been allowed anywhere near the streets of Dublin. For them to march at a time like this shows exactly how little they actually care about anyone who doesn't share their ideals.

NIMAN

Already being discussed here

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057974402

JupiterKid

NIMAN wrote: »

Already being discussed here

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057974402

Yep I know, but I felt that this was such a serious development and issue that it deserved its own thread.

It's interesting to see on the Extinction Rebellion thread the number of posters getting pretty miffed at a protest in Dublin by young environment-conscious idealists but this Saoradh march is really something to rightly get angry about.

Censored11

Disappointed to see dime bars like these being allowed to do a military march down the main street of our capital in this day and age.
Seriously wtf.

The Irish Defence Forces should be the only military group permitted to march down O'Connell street.

Imo.

Anteayer

I find it depressing and pathetic more than disturbing.

When you consider the horrors, misery and damage that was done by those decades of conflict in Northern Ireland and also the tireless efforts and enormous leaps of faith that were involved in bringing everyone to the table to get the peace process on track and working, it's just sickening to see that kind of display.

Northern Ireland is no longer an oppressive place to live for anyone. There's a democratic process there. There's a cross community government structure in place and one that has worked successfully. It's completely free and capable of deciding its own future through the ballot box.

Why the hell would anyone want to go back to that dismal past?

Also after the murder of Lyra McKee only days ago, it's clearly either a deliberate and disturbing message or it's just showing utter disrespect towards her. Either way, it's sickening.

Sometimes I just give up on humanity - it seems to have a self-destructive element that just undermines every bit of progress and happiness that comes about.

NIMAN

Anteayer wrote: »

I find it depressing and pathetic more than disturbing.

When you consider the horrors, misery and damage that was done by those decades of conflict in Northern Ireland and also the tireless efforts and enormous leaps of faith that were involved in bringing everyone to the table to get the peace process on track and working, it's just sickening to see that kind of display.

Northern Ireland is no longer an oppressive place to live for anyone. There's a democratic process there. There's a cross community government structure in place and one that has worked successfully. It's completely free and capable of deciding its own future through the ballot box.

Why the hell would anyone want to go back to that dismal past?

Also after the murder of Lyra McKee only days ago, it's clearly either a deliberate and disturbing message or it's just showing utter disrespect towards her. Either way, it's sickening.

Sometimes I just give up on humanity - it seems to have a self-destructive element that just undermines every bit of progress and happiness that comes about.

Most of what you say is totally correct, bar the highlighted bit;)

But agree, that display yesterday was sickening.

Anteayer

NIMAN wrote: »

Most of what you say is totally correct, bar the highlighted bit;)

But agree, that display yesterday was sickening.

There are excellent structures in place and the system has been designed to bend over backwards to ensure that there's cross community representation in the government structure and they've a full proportional representation voting system and all sorts of other checks, balances and inducements to try and make it work as a genuinely fair and representative system. There's also extensive human rights and equality legislation and all sorts of new bodies in place to remove any elements of discrimination or legacy of the bad old days.

The voters of Northern Ireland have jumped into bunker mode and voted for the two extremes and it's lead to deadlock and then they just sit there wondering why it doesn't function.

You can take a horse to water...

FanadMan

Anteayer wrote: »

I find it depressing and pathetic more than disturbing.

When you consider the horrors, misery and damage that was done by those decades of conflict in Northern Ireland and also the tireless efforts and enormous leaps of faith that were involved in bringing everyone to the table to get the peace process on track and working, it's just sickening to see that kind of display.

Northern Ireland is no longer an oppressive place to live for anyone. There's a democratic process there. There's a cross community government structure in place and one that has worked successfully. It's completely free and capable of deciding its own future through the ballot box.

Why the hell would anyone want to go back to that dismal past?

Also after the murder of Lyra McKee only days ago, it's clearly either a deliberate and disturbing message or it's just showing utter disrespect towards her. Either way, it's sickening.

Sometimes I just give up on humanity - it seems to have a self-destructive element that just undermines every bit of progress and happiness that comes about.

There's still a lot of places in NI that anyone with a "southern" accent wouldn't set foot in, never mind live in. Also, there are places that if you have the "southern" accent, you are regarded as being friendly to the RA. Still a lot of knuckle dragging thugs about that yearn for the troubles. And they are breeding, shown by the typically cowardly murder of Lyra McKee.

Richard Hillman

Imagine if they were anti 3rd world immigration....

rockatansky

These marches are nothing new. There's a real problem of how to handle them. But just like the previous campaigns of the border skirmishes or the provisionals, they've always been allowed to march.

I've no problem with them holding commemorations in O'Connell street. I do take issues with Colour partys though.

Any attempt to ban them just has the opposite effect, draws attention to them and gives them publicity. It may also increase their membership.

lawred2

I wouldn't be giving them the attention they crave. Just a bunch of adult children doing dress up.

bilston

FanadMan wrote: »

There's still a lot of places in NI that anyone with a "southern" accent wouldn't set foot in.

I had this conversation with a Dublin taxi driver recently. He said he took a fare all the way up to Belfast and got lost and ended up in a Loyalist estate and was very nervous.

The reality is people with southern accents would be absolutely fine in Loyalist areas and people from Loyalist areas will be absolutely fine in Republican areas.

I'm sure there are places where the PSNI still have to tread carefully. The Creggan being a prime example.

I imagine Northern Ireland is a much safer place to be than London

harr

bilston wrote: »

I had this conversation with a Dublin taxi driver recently. He said he took a fare all the way up to Belfast and got lost and ended up in a Loyalist estate and was very nervous.

The reality is people with southern accents would be absolutely fine in Loyalist areas and people from Loyalist areas will be absolutely fine in Republican areas.

I'm sure there are places where the PSNI still have to tread carefully. The Creggan being a prime example.

I imagine Northern Ireland is a much safer place to be than London

The likes of city centres might be safer then London but travel around NI and if you are driving a southern car you won’t be welcomed in certain areas bit of a stretch saying

“ The reality is people with southern accents would be absolutely fine in Loyalist areas and people from Loyalist areas will be absolutely fine in Republican areas. “

The above statement isn’t true to what I have experienced in NI.

Pissartist

JupiterKid wrote: »

So less than 48 hours after the senseless shooting dead of journalist Lyra McKee in Derry during rioting, the dissident republican group Saoradh brazenly marched through Dublin city centre yesterday.

I consider this march to be a direct affront to democracy in this country and something sinister and very unwelcome.

An insult to Lyra McKee and her partner and family and a direct challenge to our State and society.

Should they even have been allowed march?

Why shouldn't they be allowed march it was peaceful, I've seen much more aggressive and abusive marchers at something like pride marches. They had nothing to do with Derry,in fact no one has come forward to claim responsibility, it was just a young thug in my opinion.

source

While I don't agree with them and hate that the North is hurtling back towards its old ways. I believe fundamentally in Bunreacht na hÉireann, and it is clear that they have the right to match like they did even if any right minded person agrees that it is not only in poor taste, but downright dangerous to give them a platform.

"Bunreacht wrote:

6 1° the state guarantees liberty for the exercise of the following rights, subject to public order and morality:

i. the right of the citizens to express freely their convictions and opinions.

the education public opinion being, however, a matter of such grave import to the common good, the state shall endeavour to ensure that organs of public opinion, such as the radio, the press, the cinema, while preserving their rightful liberty of expression, including criticism of Government policy, shall not be used to undermine public order or morality or the authority of the state.

the publication or utterance of seditious or indecent matter is an offence which shall be punishable in accordance with law.

ii. the right of the citizens to assemble peaceably and without arms.

Provision may be made by law to prevent or control meetings which are determined in accordance with law to be calculated to cause a breach of the peace or to be a danger or nuisance to the general public and to prevent or control meetings in the vicinity of either house of the oireachtas.

iii. The right of the citizens to form associations and unions. laws, however, may be enacted for the regulation and control in the public interest of the exercise of the foregoing right.

2° laws regulating the manner in which the right of forming associations and unions and the right of free assembly may be exercised shall contain no political, religious or class discrimination.

To paraphrase a quote which has been attributed to Voltaire: I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

There are very few people left in this country who think along the same lines as groups like these, these idiotic marches only make them look stupid and ineffectual. You see the Irish Defence Forces marching and you see rank after rank of extremely fit and well drilled young soldiers, this crowd look like what they are, a joke. Let them march, the public aren't so stupid that they need to be shielded from bad ideas.

whisky_galore

A bunch of slouchers, the unfit and overweight.

Not much different to the other bomber jacket, beret, sunglasses ensemble wearers who like strutting around with flags.

arybvtcw0eolkf

JupiterKid wrote: »

So less than 48 hours after the senseless shooting dead of journalist Lyra McKee in Derry during rioting, the dissident republican group Saoradh brazenly marched through Dublin city centre yesterday.

I consider this march to be a direct affront to democracy in this country and something sinister and very unwelcome.

An insult to Lyra McKee and her partner and family and a direct challenge to our State and society.

Should they even have been allowed march?

They should have been marched under a bus. Scum.

AtomicHorror

Bunch of provo cosplayers. The irony of them wearing the flag of our democracy on their arms. Everyone of of them should be identified and placed under surveillance. If someone tells you they're a terrorist, believe them.

Pissartist wrote: »

Why shouldn't they be allowed march it was peaceful, I've seen much more aggressive and abusive marchers at something like pride marches. They had nothing to do with Derry,in fact no one has come forward to claim responsibility, it was just a young thug in my opinion.

The PSNI believe the violence in Derry was directly carried out by dissident republicans. They were raiding New IRA caches at the time. People attacked them in response. McKee was indeed shot by a young thug, but a young thug armed with a handgun in the vicinity of raids against New IRA caches, shooting at the people raiding the New IRA caches. You know something they don't? What was he, a bad samaritan? An opportunist? A lucky psychopath? Come on.

Saoradh should be allowed to march, because they have the right to march. And we have the right to call them out for the pathetic amateur fascists they are. However, it would have been smart for such a group to keep a low profile in the wake of a murder committed by a group in their corner.

You might have seen aggressive or abusive pride marchers- who could argue against such a claim? But I think it's probably very telling that you've crowbarred LGBT people into the discussion when they've nothing to do with it.

2011

These people disgust me.

The fact that the Saoradh / New IRA have become a serious obstacle to a united Ireland is lost on these morons.

AtomicHorror

2011 wrote: »

These people disgust me.

The fact that the Saoradh / New IRA have become a serious obstacle to a united Ireland is lost on these morons.

Yep at this point it seems like unification or federation with NI is more likely if they just get out of the way and shut up.

biko

JupiterKid wrote: »

I consider this march to be a direct affront to democracy

Don't be one of those people that conflate "democracy" with "my feelings"

AtomicHorror

biko wrote: »

Don't be one of those people that conflate "democracy" with "my feelings"

Don't try the snowflake schtick. The emotions may be high here, but that's not carte blanche for you to dismiss whatever you like.

Terrorists are fascists. Democracy can tolerate almost anything, but not fascism. Popper's Paradox and all that.

In this case they've made a laughable show of themselves, but there's absolutely an argument for labelling them as anti-democratic and for preventing them from marching if the harm outweighs the benefit.

biko

Democracy is a way of governing a country.
It is not, as OP implies, a way of making sure all is well and everyone are happy.

Having various factions march isn't the opposite of democracy, it is democracy in action.
If you have a problem with that you are opposed to democracy, i.e. you are fascist.

Well, the above sounds harsh but that's the gist of it.
You can't have your democracy cake and prevent others from having it too.

circadian

Pissartist wrote: »

Why shouldn't they be allowed march it was peaceful, I've seen much more aggressive and abusive marchers at something like pride marches. They had nothing to do with Derry,in fact no one has come forward to claim responsibility, it was just a young thug in my opinion.

Wise up would ye. The dogs on the street know the relation between the shooter and paramilitaries.

Comparing a paramilitary show of strength to a pride parade is the stupidest thing I've read in a long time.

You need your head checked.

biko

The Irish Republic already have laws and measures to prevent such marches.

silverharp

im pretty sure its illegal to do "military" style "parades" , though i guess being O'Connell st there is was a slim chance of bumping into a guard

bilston

harr wrote: »

The likes of city centres might be safer then London but travel around NI and if you are driving a southern car you won’t be welcomed in certain areas bit of a stretch saying

“ The reality is people with southern accents would be absolutely fine in Loyalist areas and people from Loyalist areas will be absolutely fine in Republican areas. “

The above statement isn’t true to what I have experienced in NI.

What have you experienced in Northern Ireland?

suicide_circus

banning them would empower them. by allowing them to march they are exposed.

AtomicHorror

biko wrote: »

Democracy is a way of governing a country.
It is not, as OP implies, a way of making sure all is well and everyone are happy.

Having various factions march isn't the opposite of democracy, it is democracy in action.
If you have a problem with that you are opposed to democracy, i.e. you are fascist.

Well, the above sounds harsh but that's the gist of it.
You can't have your democracy cake and prevent others from having it too.

No this is just another naive variant of the the sneering "tolerant left" fallacy. Even at it's most liberal, democracy cannot except that which seeks to destroy democracy. So whether we consider Saoradh or similar groups to fit the bill, there are absolutely factions that a healthy democracy must prohibit, and it is absolutely not fascism to oppose fascism with maximum prejudice.

None of this new thinking. The only question is whether these pudgy wannabes qualify as fascists.

Richard Hillman

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Don't try the snowflake schtick. The emotions may be high here, but that's not carte blanche for you to dismiss whatever you like.

Terrorists are fascists. Democracy can tolerate almost anything, but not fascism. Popper's Paradox and all that.

In this case they've made a laughable show of themselves, but there's absolutely an argument for labelling them as anti-democratic and for preventing them from marching if the harm outweighs the benefit.

They are communists not fascists. People are falling over themselves to say "not real socialism".

The are communists. Repeat, communists.

AtomicHorror

Richard Hillman wrote: »

They are communists not fascists. People are falling over themselves to say "not real socialism".

The are communists. Repeat, communists.

If they mean to reach their goal by armed revolution against a perfectly valid democracy, what's the practical difference?

rockatansky

Ah here lads, they're not communists, Facists or whatever else you're trying to label them as.

Their rank and file members couldn't even begin to go start to explain any political idealogy, including their own.

They have 2 aims, restart the war, do as much possible to Sinn Fein. While those at the top grow rich from drug dealing and ATM theft.

whisky_galore

Richard Hillman wrote: »

They are communists not fascists. People are falling over themselves to say "not real socialism".

The are communists. Repeat, communists.

They wouldn't know what communism was if it came along and bit them on the arse.

o1s1n

Gotta love the way a few of the guys at the front are wearing British DPM camo jackets.

batgoat

Pissartist wrote: »

Why shouldn't they be allowed march it was peaceful, I've seen much more aggressive and abusive marchers at something like pride marches. They had nothing to do with Derry,in fact no one has come forward to claim responsibility, it was just a young thug in my opinion.

Saoradh are filled with young thugs. They were very much so responsible for what occurred. So yep they can royally **** themselves off the planet. Been to plenty of prides over the years btw and never seen any abuse from the marchers btw. (McKee would have been one of them btw) Suspect this is your own Republican views blocking common sense.

Richard Hillman wrote: »

They are communists not fascists. People are falling over themselves to say "not real socialism".

The are communists. Repeat, communists.

And? Most lefties in Ireland aren't communists, the victim was left wing.She would most likely be one of those people you want rant about who are socially conscious and support the rights of others. I haven't encountered any significant support from the left of the shooter. I have on the other hand had numerous friends on the left who knew Lyra who are distraught by what occurred. So perhaps cop on and stop using the thread as a rant over the left?

klaaaz

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Everyone of of them should be identified and placed under surveillance. If someone tells you they're a terrorist, believe them.

Nice soundbite, are you going to agree to pay higher taxes for our security services to monitor hundreds of people and build new prisons?
There are countless armed drug lord gangs in Dublin alone and the Gardai have struggled to counter them for a couple of decades now.

is_that_so

rockatansky wrote: »

Ah here lads, they're not communists, Facists or whatever else you're trying to label them as.

Their rank and file members couldn't even begin to go start to explain any political idealogy, including their own.

They have 2 aims, restart the war, do as much possible to Sinn Fein. While those at the top grow rich from drug dealing and ATM theft.

And dressing up! Let's not forget that.

joe swanson

Dirty scum . A waste of their fathers sperm.

Yamanoto

Perhaps we could re-open the Players Lounge in Fairview, to give these high achievers something to do of an afternoon.

Hedgelayer

Another shower of sjws dressed up as soldiers.

Probably a bunch of vegan sympathisers, you'd see the way they dress like plants.

Worthless wasters, nobody gives a **** about their cause, bunch of tossers

tayto lover

I’d say the takings of some border pub and bookies were well down yesterday.

Hedgelayer

God save Ireland said the heroes.....

jimd2

I suppose it would have taken some balls from a politician be it Leo or Charlie Flanagan but in the wake of the shooting Thursday night the permission for that crew to march should have been withdrawn in the interest of public order and pending the investigation into the shooting.

I think permission for future marches should be withdrawn unless there is a completely stable non violent situation North and South. Also, if there is even a shred of evidence linking this group to the ATM thefts all privelages like this should be withdrawn.

Beechwoodspark

Someone made a good point on radio just now

Apparently one brave person stood in front of the march and tried to stop it. Well done to that person

But if there had been more notice of this march there would’ve been huge numbers of ppl trying to stop the march

Of course this crowd sneaked in and sneaked out as fast as they could

FrancieBrady

It was always going to be the case that it would take a tragedy like this to waken people up to what has been growing since the GFA.

Far too many people with the power and the responsibility to keep the process moving once again ignored the signs and the warning from those who knew what was happening.

The guys marching down O'Connell street are not the ones we should be worrying about, it is those on both sides who don't believe that the GFA is the answer.

And who can argue with them, when you see the state of the GFA now.

Varadkar and May need to take action and take it very soon. Sitting around condemning is not good enough.

Pissartist

There's no Martin McGuinness to help calm tensions in Derry anymore either.

The Hill Billy

The fact that the march went ahead shows how ****ing clueless Saoradh/New IRA really are.

Public outrage across the island & political divides at Lyra's murder. Unprecedented cooperation between Creggan residents & PSNI to track down the murderer.

These guys who just murdered a lovely human being then think that a pseudo military parade is the best next step to take? Fools & thugs.

The best thing that we can do this weekend is to turn out & cheer on the brave men & women of the real Oglaigh na hEireann parading in honour of our Patriots.

boardise

Simian
Abject
Oafs
Radiating
Anti
Democratic
Hatred

Pissartist

Thinking of our Patriots,they were spat on by the majority of dubs before their death/sacrifice.Interesting that.