Saoradh dissident republican march in Dublin

OwlsZat

lawred2 wrote: »

I wouldn't be giving them the attention they crave. Just a bunch of adult children doing dress up.

Is it a surprise they appear as game of thrones returns, I think not.

Spanish Eyes

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

When you keep making things up it forces people to explain. Interesting tactics but not really getting you further than quips like this.

When you are explaining without any real backup apart from an inherent mindset, you certainly are losing it with one liners. But it is a tactic. Like mind bending etc.

Eventually they will get it and try to get everyone else on board too.

Not me though!

Sean.3516

Censored11 wrote: »

Disappointed to see dime bars like these being allowed to do a military march down the main street of our capital in this day and age.
Seriously wtf.

The Irish Defence Forces should be the only military group permitted to march down O'Connell street.

Imo.

Are these guys an actual paramilitary group? Is violence in their charter? If not, then I don’t think they should be banned.

Sean.3516

rockatansky wrote: »

Any attempt to ban them just has the opposite effect, draws attention to them and gives them publicity. It may also increase their membership.

Agreed. Let them march so that we can make fun of them.

janfebmar

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Are these guys an actual paramilitary group? Is violence in their charter? If not, then I don’t think they should be banned.

Quite probable some or all of those throwing petrol bombs the other evening were there?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

The problem is that your definition of Irishness is too restrictive.

Unless someone is rabidly in favour of a United Ireland, then they are not Irish in your opinion. That is a hangover of reductionist SF thinking.

Someone like me, who is a proud GAA follower and Irish music lover, but who doesn't believe in immediate Irish unity and is apathetic about the Irish language is somehow less of an Irishman. God knows what you think of the recently naturalised.

Janefebmar is fervently in support of the idea that the Irish were always wrong and the British were correct.

Even you blanch know that is wrong. You are a partitionist, which is fair enough.

But neither of you have ever offered a solution to the death of innocent people.

I believe a majority democratic decision to unify, while difficult, is the only way to end this needless cycle of violence and death.

It's OK to let matches like this happen. It allows AGS to identify persons who may not have come to notice before these marches.
Knowledge is power!

Spanish Eyes

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Janefebmar is fervently in support of the idea that the Irish were always wrong and the British were correct.

Even you blanch know that is wrong. You are a partitionist, which is fair enough.

But neither of you have ever offered a solution to the death of innocent people.

I believe a majority democratic decision to unify, while difficult, is the only way to end this needless cycle of violence and death.

You as a person do not have to believe this, it will happen when the majority wish it to happen. Not now, but maybe in the future.

Problem is, those radicals who do not want a UI might wreak more havoc than ever.

Difficult situation really all round.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Janefebmar is fervently in support of the idea that the Irish were always wrong and the British were correct.

Even you blanch know that is wrong. You are a partitionist, which is fair enough.

But neither of you have ever offered a solution to the death of innocent people.

I believe a majority democratic decision to unify, while difficult, is the only way to end this needless cycle of violence and death.

I have told you many many times that I am not a partitionist, yet you still persist in hurling uninformed insults at me. I reject that label, just as many people rejected the n-word, the c-word and the y-word. You can keep labelling all you like, but unless the people you label accept the word you use, you are no better than a member of the KKK or an apartheid apologist.

The cycle of violence and death is easily ended. Those who are carrying out violence should stop. End of.

It is not our responsibility to stop them, it is their responsibility to stop. It is the responsibility of the community to out those responsible. I am heartened that two people have already been arrested after last night's horrific tragedy, and I hope that the people of Derry, who know who any other culprits are, will turn the rest of the cowards in.

Sean.3516

janfebmar wrote: »

Quite probable some or all of those throwing petrol bombs the other evening were there?

Perhaps, but I’m asking if Saoradh is a republican organisation which like the IRA has enumerated violence in it’s charter as a means of achieving reunification?

If the answer is no, then I don’t think it should be classed as a paramilitary or banned, as much as I despise these fools besides the fact.

Sean.3516

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Janefebmar is fervently in support of the idea that the Irish were always wrong and the British were correct.

Even you blanch know that is wrong. You are a partitionist, which is fair enough.

But neither of you have ever offered a solution to the death of innocent people.

I believe a majority democratic decision to unify, while difficult, is the only way to end this needless cycle of violence and death.

I’m a partitionist.

If the majority in the North wish to stay in the UK, then that’s fine with me.

I’ve never bought this idea that the British stole the land from “the Irish”.

There was no Irish nation before the plantations. It was celtic tribes fighting each other. The brits come and settle and cultivate the land and yes, commit atrocities but really, I fail to see why I should be fired up about how people who have been dead for centuries took land from other people who’ve been dead for centuries.

BBFAN

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Perhaps, but I’m asking if Saoradh is a republican organisation which like the IRA has enumerated violence in it’s charter as a means of achieving reunification?

If the answer is no, then I don’t think it should be classed as a paramilitary or banned, as much as I despise these fools besides the fact.

You're accepting that perhaps they were throwing petrol bombs but asking the question if they enumerate violence??

Are you somewhat confused??

Sean.3516

BBFAN wrote: »

You're accepting that perhaps they were throwing petrol bombs but asking the question if they enumerate violence??

Are you somewhat confused??

I’m saying that INDIVIDUALS in the march may well have thrown petrol bombs and if so they should be prosecuted as INDIVIDUALS. However if you want to ban Saoradh as an organisation you’ll have to show me where they have advocated violence and/or where their members (in their capacity as Saoradh members) have acted violently.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Janefebmar is fervently in support of the idea that the Irish were always wrong and the British were correct.

Wrong,very wrong. The Irish were often right and we have some fantastic achievements in the world, for our size.

However you condoned the provos and think only hardline Republicans are really Irish. You have a lot to learn, like the other lads who attacked the crown forces the other evening.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

I have told you many many times that I am not a partitionist, yet you still persist in hurling uninformed insults at me. I reject that label, just as many people rejected the n-word, the c-word and the y-word. You can keep labelling all you like, but unless the people you label accept the word you use, you are no better than a member of the KKK or an apartheid apologist.

The cycle of violence and death is easily ended. Those who are carrying out violence should stop. End of.

It is not our responsibility to stop them, it is their responsibility to stop. It is the responsibility of the community to out those responsible. I am heartened that two people have already been arrested after last night's horrific tragedy, and I hope that the people of Derry, who know who any other culprits are, will turn the rest of the cowards in.

And when the 'community' supported SF, you whinge about that too.

I think you need to review what a 'partitionist' mindset actually is.
Supporting a GAA team or a taste in music doesn't really cut it as a innocence plea.

biko

biko wrote: »

Democracy is a way of governing a country.
It is not, as OP implies, a way of making sure all is well and everyone are happy.

Having various factions march isn't the opposite of democracy, it is democracy in action.
If you have a problem with that you are opposed to democracy, i.e. you are fascist.

Well, the above sounds harsh but that's the gist of it.
You can't have your democracy cake and prevent others from having it too.

there is a serious and material difference between protest marches and direct challenges to the right of the state to be the sole military and policing authority with authority over use of force.

two days after seeming involvement in the murder of a journalist is no time for you to gloss over that difference

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And when the 'community' supported SF, you whinge about that too.

I think you need to review what a 'partitionist' mindset actually is.
Supporting a GAA team or a taste in music doesn't really cut it as a innocence plea.

I just think that today we all need to condemn what happened in Derry.

Anyone prevaricating or obfuscating about partitionism or any other excuse needs to look at themselves.

Sean.3516

Sean.3516 wrote: »

I’m a partitionist.

If the majority in the North wish to stay in the UK, then that’s fine with me.

I’ve never bought this idea that the British stole the land from “the Irish”.

There was no Irish nation before the plantations. It was celtic tribes fighting each other. The brits come and settle and cultivate the land and yes, commit atrocities but really, I fail to see why I should be fired up about how people who have been dead for centuries took land from other people who’ve been dead for centuries.

Seriously? We had a clan system, complete with a high king. How does that not equal a Nation?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

I just think that today we all need to condemn what happened in Derry.

Anyone prevaricating or obfuscating about partitionism or any other excuse needs to look at themselves.

Prevaricating?

Sean.3516

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Seriously? We had a clan system, complete with a high king. How does that not equal a Nation?

The last high king of ireland was Ruadhrí O’Connor whose reign ended in 1198 during the Norman conquest. The plantations began in the 16th century.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Prevaricating?

People who justified and condoned attacks on the crown forces, that is what encouraged the lads the other evening.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

People who justified and condoned attacks on the crown forces, that is what encouraged the lads the other evening.

And the acts of the crown forces (who these 'lads' object to) had nothing to do with this?

The GFA didn't get the agreement of all. We all know this, why the surprise? You were told this would happen.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And the acts of the crown forces (who these 'lads' object to) had nothing to do with this?

The GFA didn't get the agreement of all. We all know this, why the surprise? You were told this would happen.

the acts dont excuse this. in any way.

the fact a tiny % of people dont agree with GFA don't excuse this. in any way.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And the acts of the crown forces (who these 'lads' object to) had nothing to do with this?

So you are blaming the police for the journalists death. Classy.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The GFA didn't get the agreement of all. We all know this, why the surprise? You were told this would happen.

Not surprised. Even Gerry said " they have'nt gone away, you know" or words to that effect. It is known some Republicans want to return to violence.

whisky_galore

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Seriously? We had a clan system, complete with a high king. How does that not equal a Nation?

A clan system is just a number of groups, continually hammering the sh1t out of each other for their own ends. Hardly a nation.

Junkyard Tom

The RUC were sectarian thugs with many killers in their ranks and I doubt a single one of them wasn't aware of it.

Same crowd on here trying to re-fight the troubles, ironically like the people in Saordagh and and anti-GFA unionists who have never come to terms with being the actual cause of the Troubles.

John2136

NasserShammaz wrote: »

Pride marching down O'Connell st again will say more about a united ireland than these eejits

Yeah we should kiss the English out of our country

John2136

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The RUC were sectarian thugs with many killers in their ranks and I doubt a single one of them wasn't aware of it.

Same crowd on here trying to re-fight the troubles, ironically like the people in Saordagh and and anti-GFA unionists who have never come to terms with being the actual cause of the Troubles.

Not to mention MI5/MI6 and RUC special branch controlled the loyalist paramilitaries as part as part of their proxy war so the British establishment could take the moral high ground, in the early 70s the crown forces were killing far more civilians than the IRA were but some bright spark realised this isn't doing us any good, not on the propaganda side of things anyway.

Sean.3516

John2136 wrote: »

Yeah we should kiss the English out of our country

Are the English still in our country?

John2136

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Are the English still in our country?

Obviously