Formula 1 2019 - General Discussion Thread

flazio

Going back to Ocon, I hate to say it, but with Mercedes Benz joining Formula e next season, I'm expecting Toto to announce Ocon as one of his drivers.

Frank Bullitt

https://twitter.com/harrismonkey/status/1141411929321279488

vectra

supremenovice wrote: »

Vettel has the speed but is mentally fragile. He has made far too many driver errors since he has been challenging Hamilton for the title since 2017. Even in his Red Bull days, when the pressure was on, he cracked.



There have been numerous races in his career where Hamilton hasn't turned up for one reason or another, but in the past couple years particularly, his game is to a level now where he is at almost 100% every race, every qualifying session. He is the best qualifier, the best wet weather driver, the best passer, the coolest under pressure, despite his whinging on the radio. And, believe it or not, I'm a Sebastian Vettel and Ferrari fan but I can not ignore what I see on screen every two weeks - Hamilton has the mental edge over him. As hard as it is for me to say - Hamilton is the best driver in F1 and one of the greatest of all time. Vettel, Rosberg - great champions in their own right, and Rosberg is possibly the most under-rated champ in history, but I can not put them up on the same level as Hamilton.

To be fair,
I can only assume it makes life a LOT easier when you have the best car week after week.

Sonny noggs

Hamilton lost a title to a teammate that plenty on here and elsewhere do not rate. As such Hamilton will never be considered an F1 great (outside of the UK), regardless of total title wins.

BikeRacer

:rolleyes:

Adamocovic

I honestly don't get it. In my eyes both Hamilton and Vettel are F1 greats.

Always see people mention Hamilton losing out to Rosberg and hypotheticals about his car. He's also beaten Rosberg, Button and Alonso (albeit tied on points). My only real mark against Hamilton is I think he's not as good at managing his tyres as others but that doesn't take away from the fact he's one of the best.

Vettel is always labelled as fragile mentally which I don't agree with. Most drivers make mistakes but his are always highlighted, they're not paid much attention however when it's done during a winning season. Reason for it isn't because I think he's error prone, but rather he pushes the car a lot, maybe some critics who say he focuses more on trying to win the race than just taking the points is correct, but it's also brought him great success.

Obviously to be the world champion you need a good car, but if it was as easy as some think with a good car then Vettel and Hamiltons ex-teammates would have a few WCs under their belt during the same time. I don't see how you can win 4 or 5 WCs and still not be considered one of the greats.

I struggle to believe there is any or were any perfect drivers out there that had no criticisms to their name. No doubt once Vettel and Hamilton hang it up they'll be looked back at as two of the greats.

El_Duderino 09

eviltimeban wrote: »

It's hard to know if its down to natural talent, or just getting the mix right - right driver, right team, right car, right boss, right time.

I'd say all the drivers are at least on a reasonably similar level; we are seeing times within tenths of each other, not seconds. Where it differs is how the driver slots into the team. Sometimes it doesn't work when it should, and sometimes it works when no one expects it to.

Those who stand out, stand out. Like Verstappen. Hamilton stood out from day one. Someone like Hulk puts the hours in but hasn't had the chance to stand out. Their own motivation and drive (no pun intended) are critical really.

Hulk is an interesting one. I think he's proven himself to be... grand. He'd be a great no.2 driver but no.2 drivers are out of vogue at the moment. Where we clearly see no.2s, they tend to be young drivers.

Hulk was taken.on by Renault as team leader but as soon as they had the chance to sign a proper top tier driver in Danny Ric, they took it.

I think it's extraordinary that he has never scored a podium. But I think we have enough evidence to conclude he's not near the top tier of drivers either.

chicorytip

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

I think it's extraordinary that he has never scored a podium. But I think we have enough evidence to conclude he's not near the top tier of drivers either.

Grosjean, who is at a similar stage in his career, has eight podiums to his credit and is clearly a more talented driver yet will probably never get an opportunity either to drive for a top team. I have always been a fan of his and it would be great to see him in a Ferrari.

El_Duderino 09

chicorytip wrote: »

Grosjean, who is at a similar stage in his career, has eight podiums to his credit and is clearly a more talented driver yet will probably never get an opportunity either to drive for a top team. I have always been a fan of his and it would be great to see him in a Ferrari.

Yes but Grosjean is very up and down. He seems to have become consistently bad this year though. Magnussen is under no threat from him. They tend to be together on track at the start of races and then Kmag gets the points and Grosjean doesn't.

I wouldn't pick Grosjean. I'd say he's under pressure for his Haas seat. He was in Contention for the Ferrari seat and got Haas as a Consolation and a trial to keep him sweet in case ferrari wanted him. Now they have LeClerc so they have absolutely no need of Grosjean.

Adamocovic

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yes but Grosjean is very up and down. He seems to have become consistently bad this year though. Magnussen is under no threat from him. They tend to be together on track at the start of races and then Kmag gets the points and Grosjean doesn't.

I wouldn't pick Grosjean. I'd say he's under pressure for his Haas seat. He was in Contention for the Ferrari seat and got Haas as a Consolation and a trial to keep him sweet in case ferrari wanted him. Now they have LeClerc so they have absolutely no need of Grosjean.

I agree he can be hot and cold, mentality being a key for him but think it's harsh to say he's been consistently bad in this year.

He's been unlucky with retirements. First with the wheelnut breaking due to more Haas pitstop errors (forcing it on), then from Stroll hitting into the back of him and eventually him retiring, and finally from Haas overheating his brakes to try warm his tyres.

The retirements this season don't really feel like they have been due to mistakes or problems with the driver. Also of the 4 races that he and Magnussen have both finished he's come out on top 3 times.

Needs a good run of no retirements but I wouldn't say he's been consistently bad, he's been consistently unlucky.

El_Duderino 09

Adamocovic wrote: »

I agree he can be hot and cold, mentality being a key for him but think it's harsh to say he's been consistently bad in this year.

He's been unlucky with retirements. First with the wheelnut breaking due to more Haas pitstop errors (forcing it on), then from Stroll hitting into the back of him and eventually him retiring, and finally from Haas overheating his brakes to try warm his tyres.

The retirements this season don't really feel like they have been due to mistakes or problems with the driver. Also of the 4 races that he and Magnussen have both finished he's come out on top 3 times.

Needs a good run of no retirements but I wouldn't say he's been consistently bad, he's been consistently unlucky.

Yeah actually that's fair. I was a bit harsh in my post. The retirements were unfortunate.

Id still say he's out if Ferrari's plans at the moment.

muckwarrior

chicorytip wrote: »

Grosjean, who is at a similar stage in his career, has eight podiums to his credit and is clearly a more talented driver yet will probably never get an opportunity either to drive for a top team. I have always been a fan of his and it would be great to see him in a Ferrari.

I'd say Grosjean has only a very slightly higher chance of getting a Ferrari seat than me!

AMKC

I think if Grosjean had of got the Ferrari seat instead of Vettel that Ferrari might have won the WDC either last year or even in 2017. Yes I agree he can be mentally unstable sometimes but so can Vettel and I think Grosjean would not have made the mistakes that Vettel made. Furthermore I think the reason he has had problems mentally is because he is not where he thought he would be by now which is a top team. I think if he was in a Top team he would be performing much better. Unfortunately like others have said I think he has missed out on his chances of driving for one of the front teams now.

pjohnson

Sirotkin is now McLaren's reserve driver in addition to being Renault's reserve.

Adamocovic

And Mercs cruise to another easy 1-2 in practice.

I know Ferrari have new aero parts but it's getting hard to imagine them coming close in qualifying after that.

Joeface

pjohnson wrote:

Sirotkin is now McLaren's reserve driver in addition to being Renault's reserve.

Williams said it about him last season he is very good at feed back and massive team player. Maybe Renault can use him more

Burkie1203

Lewis under investigation for unsafe rejoin after going off track

quokula

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Lewis under investigation for unsafe rejoin after going off track

I haven't seen the incident, but based on the fact that it's Hamilton, you can pretty much guarantee no penalty.

pjohnson

Joeface wrote: »

Williams said it about him last season he is very good at feed back and massive team player. Maybe Renault can use him more

He has an actual masters degree in mechanical engineering iirc so yeah as far as test drivers go his input would be great.

Adamocovic

quokula wrote: »

I haven't seen the incident, but based on the fact that it's Hamilton, you can pretty much guarantee no penalty.

He can have little to complain about.

Vettels drew controversy as it looked like a racing incident and how fast it all happened, plus the fact he didn't look in full control.

Lewis there today ended up going straight instead of turning, not sure what happened, hit the brakes, went wide, then swung it around off the track at a slow pace towards the track and entered near the turn or chicane if you wish as Verstappen was coming around who then swerved a bit lost control and went off the track.

The fact he had so much time makes it a stonewall one, just adds fuel to it after last weekend. I think he's turned around maturity wise so I can't imagine him trying to defend it as it would be extremely hypocritical. Best to put the hands up.

Adamocovic

Also they rejected Sebs right to a review so can't see the Hamilton one going unpunished.

Adamocovic

Just saw on twitter they announced there will be no follow up to it and it goes unpunished! Shocked really.

I know it was practice not the race but that's a bit gas. Especially with all that happened about unsafe entries over the last week.

Adamocovic

https://twitter.com/Planet_F1/status/1142069932844343298?s=09

Adamocovic

From their announcement sounds like Max did him a solid and said he felt no need to pursue punishment.

Gas for this an hour after from Vettel/Ferrari decision.

Adamocovic

Will add one funny thing I found is one of the reasons stewards said there would be no punishment against Lewis was because he couldn't see Verstappen and was blind due to the angle of the car.

Re-entering from an angle blind to whats coming sounds more unsafe than a reason not to penalise! Haha

H3llR4iser

Adamocovic wrote: »

Also they rejected Sebs right to a review so can't see the Hamilton one going unpunished.

Yeah...they were never gonna accept Ferrari's case, it'd mean "we screwed up". Not now, not in a million years.

It's funny as the FIA statement for rejecting the review, basically, sounds like a child covering his ears and screaming really loud so he can't hear what going on around him...

Adamocovic

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Yeah...they were never gonna accept Ferrari's case, it'd mean "we screwed up". Not now, not in a million years.

It's funny as the FIA statement for rejecting the review, basically, sounds like a child covering his ears and screaming really loud so he can't hear what going on around him...

I find it even funnier after the Lewis/Verstappen one today.

It's like a script. Hamilton involved and the centre of an investigation, no action taken and an hour after Seb/Ferrari were told they couldn't review there's.


Built up the drama perfectly. Although I normally want to see Leclerc win, or Dani (especially here for Renault) if Vettel won there would be some scenes. Unfortunately think it's safe to say it's going to be one of the two mercs. They dominated today

Frank Bullitt

No race thread for this one? Have we finally had enough?

pjohnson

Gintonious wrote: »

No race thread for this one? Have we finally had enough?

I dunno. Dont want to step on any toes making one.

skipper_G

Gintonious wrote: »

No race thread for this one? Have we finally had enough?

I thought about it, but honestly Canada has me more disillusioned than I thought possible. Didn't bother to watch any of Free Practice and I haven't posted all week because I've had nothing positive to say.

Should add, congrats to Vettel on getting married. That's a positive I guess