Formula 1 2019 - General Discussion Thread

mickdw

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Still nonsense - Hamilton hasn't won a Championship by beating any supposedly "top drivers" in the same car, unless we finally get people to admit Rosberg was one hell of a driver that would've been a deserving multiple WDC hadn't he had the "luck" to get Lewis on his way.

Schumacher always was #1 by contract, his team mates chosen on purpose to avoid issues.

Verstappen wasn't really better than Ricciardo in the RB when Daniel's car didn't throw a conrod or some suspension bits, notwithstanding the absurdly clear preference Red Bull showed for the former.

It's really funny to see how the metrics shift around based on how liked a driver is or not. With the notable exception of Alain Prost in 1986 (mostly due to Williams' fragility and internal fighting), not one driver in the last 35 season won the title without driving the overall best car on the grid.

Let's face it - people, for whatever reason, hate Vettel just the same way they despised Rosberg. He could win a title in a Morris Marina beating the combined ghosts of Ayrton Senna and Tazio Nuvolari and people would still say "but but but..."

There is an argument for kimi not being in best chassis in 2007. McLaren threw away drivers title.

Cork Trucker

mickdw wrote: »

There is an argument for kimi not being in best chassis in 2007. McLaren threw away drivers title.

And constructors!

H3llR4iser

mickdw wrote: »

There is an argument for kimi not being in best chassis in 2007. McLaren threw away drivers title.

mmm...hard to say, Ferrari had 9 wins out of 17 races that season (more than 50%), 9 pole positions and 12 fastest laps. If it wasn't the best chassis overall, it was at least joint best with McLaren. Prost in 1986 was pretty much a case of "how the hell did this happen?"

uchimata83

H3llR4iser wrote: »

mmm...hard to say, Ferrari had 9 wins out of 17 races that season (more than 50%), 9 pole positions and 12 fastest laps. If it wasn't the best chassis overall, it was at least joint best with McLaren. Prost in 1986 was pretty much a case of "how the hell did this happen?"

Hamilton was 17 points clear of Kimi with a possible 20 left. Should have wrapped it up in China only for binning it in the pit entry.
Ferrari that year were a really well run team, with both drivers at the top of their game but they certainly didn't have the best car.

flazio

By the end of 2009 there is no way that Brawn was still the best car on the grid.

Cork Trucker

flazio wrote: »

By the end of 2009 there is no way that Brawn was still the best car on the grid.

The double diffuser have them the early advantage they needed to build a sizeable lead before the others caught up. In the end Barrichello fell away to 3rd or 4th in the championship.

Inviere

flazio wrote: »

By the end of 2009 there is no way that Brawn was still the best car on the grid.

True, but as above, they were the best for a good chunk of the season which gave them a big points lead. Button was able to manage his lead enough to win the title.

Frank Bullitt

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Schumacher was public enemy #1 for Ferrari fans while he was at Benetton, folks...a lot of people were actually very upset when he was announced, especially as he replaced long time favourite Alesi.

Obviously, in a typical Italian fashion "all was forgiven" when he started winning championships.

The tifosi hate everyone that isn't in a Ferrari.

elperello

Inviere wrote: »

True, but as above, they were the best for a good chunk of the season which gave them a big points lead. Button was able to manage his lead enough to win the title.

Ten years ago now.
We will never see the likes again.

Infoanon

Inviere wrote: »

True, but as above, they were the best for a good chunk of the season which gave them a big points lead. Button was able to manage his lead enough to win the title.

Button proved himself a worthy champion competing with success against Hamilton at McLaren

weisses

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Verstappen wasn't really better than Ricciardo in the RB when Daniel's car didn't throw a conrod or some suspension bits, notwithstanding the absurdly clear preference Red Bull showed for the former. "

Verstappen was the quicker driver .... the data showed that ... your dislike for the man seem to cloud your ability to look at the facts

uchimata83

weisses wrote: »

Verstappen was the quicker driver .... the data showed that ... your dislike for the man seem to cloud your ability to look at the facts

Faster does not necessarily mean better

GarIT

weisses wrote: »

Verstappen was the quicker driver .... the data showed that ... your dislike for the man seem to cloud your ability to look at the facts

Quicker isn't the same as scoring more points, and scoring points wins championships. Max is quick and getting quicker but Ricciardo was the better package when they were in the same car IMO. Over one lap I'd probably put my money on Max.

Inviere

Infoanon wrote: »

Button proved himself a worthy champion competing with success against Hamilton at McLaren

He certainly did. I always loved his driving style, so chilled and smooth...but very quick too. He was pretty sensitive to quirks in cars though if I recall

flexcon

Cork Trucker wrote: »

The double diffuser have them the early advantage they needed to build a sizeable lead before the others caught up. In the end Barrichello fell away to 3rd or 4th in the championship.

True. Although many cars had the double diffuser. Apparently it was the “outwash” front wing that made most use of the double diffuser

El_Duderino 09

Inviere wrote: »

He certainly did. I always loved his driving style, so chilled and smooth...but very quick too. He was pretty sensitive to quirks in cars though if I recall

Button was very sensitive to quirks in the car. He was prone to a full weekend howler where he just blamed the car all weekend but couldn't find a solution to the problems. I thought that trait got progressively more common as his career came closer to the end (last season with the Honda excluded for obvious reasons).

AMKC

So I see that over the last decade

Mercedes has scored the most points

with 5112

Then

Red Bull with 4468

then

Ferrari with 4164

then

Mclaren with 1972 points

and in 5th

Racing Point with 1099 points.

I myself think the Racing Point one is very contentious as they are not around that long.

If it was still Force India ok but its not.

So I wonder who is 6th that should probably be 5th?

PopePalpatine

Probably Williams thanks to 2014-6.

Harika

AMKC wrote: »

Racing Point with 1099 points.

I myself think the Racing Point one is very contentious as they are not around that long.

If it was still Force India ok but its not.

So I wonder who is 6th that should probably be 5th?

Racing Point includes the Force India points. Kudos to them for keeping up.

flazio

If they weren't allowed to keep their Force India points last year why should Racing Point' points count here? Sorry, but in my opinion they are a new team.

Harika

flazio wrote: »

If they weren't allowed to keep their Force India points last year why should Racing Point' points count here? Sorry, but in my opinion they are a new team.

Cause it's unofficial and has no consequences?

El_Duderino 09

flazio wrote: »

If they weren't allowed to keep their Force India points last year why should Racing Point' points count here? Sorry, but in my opinion they are a new team.

They didn't keep their points in that season but they kept their historical championship results so they get the long term payments. But also as pointed out above, it's not an official stat with consequences. It's just a bit of craic

Infoanon

Max has signed with Red Bull for another 3 years - going to be a short silly season at this rate...