Formula 1 2019 - General Discussion Thread

quokula

skipper_G wrote: »

I thought about it, but honestly Canada has me more disillusioned than I thought possible. Didn't bother to watch any of Free Practice and I haven't posted all week because I've had nothing positive to say.

Same here, I never missed a race from 1992 to mid 2018, but I just can't endure this awful hybrid formula anymore, there hasn't been a good reason to watch F1 in 7 years now.

I've missed about half the races so far this year (I'll still watch if I happen to be home and it's on, but no point planning my weekend around it anymore) - the last GP prompted me to cancel my long standing autosport subscription too.

Burkie1203

Hamilton makes an error. Goes way off track because there is 15 million acres of run off and impedes another driver while re-entering track in unsafe manner. No issue according to stewards.

Vettel goes off in a race. Fights to keep car out of a wall. Race defining Penalty.

F1 is dead.

Adamocovic

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Hamilton makes an error. Goes way off track because there is 15 million acres of run off and impedes another driver while re-entering track in unsafe manner. No issue according to stewards.

Vettel goes off in a race. Fights to keep car out of a wall. Race defining Penalty.

F1 is dead.

Personally for me I'd want neither punished but where's the consistency?

I know it's practice but the excuse of the stewards was laughable. Vettel on grass with less grip and space so sudden braking could cause a spin and God knows what is deemed unacceptable. But Hamilton not being able to see the incoming car because the line he re-entered is used as a valid excuse? Makes no sense.

Anyway at least something interesting before going through the motions of the race.

recyclebin

The most they were going to do to Hamilton was a fine. It's Friday practice....

Cool_CM

Slightly off-topic, and it should be about the Motorsport, but just saw that Muse are playing at the Singapore Grand Prix. Jesus, I'd love to be there for that!

Adamocovic

recyclebin wrote: »

The most they were going to do to Hamilton was a fine. It's Friday practice....

No one was expecting him to get a grid penalty or anything to affect his race weekend but I fail to see how this is just something to sit back and say "ok that's fine" to.

It's also entertaining timing that it has happened so soon after the debate about the rules and re-entry (which involved many current and ex drivers questioning the current system), and the decision to deny Ferrari a review.

In their rulebooks if I remember correctly was that the stewards are there to act with dangerous re joining for practice, qualifying and racing. It doesn't really specify differences between the sessions.

The fact that this happened so soon after, highlights the FIA rules and regulations issues and the lack of consistency.

You have drivers like Hulkenburg and Sainz who argue against the amount of rules and that these are just racing incidents and the FIA should scrap them, and you have the view of Verstappen who argued it shouldn't be given during the race and a review allowed after.

I'm siding with Verstappen more to at least begin with. Today a review was awarded with both drivers and teams before a decision was made regarding the re-joining, something they denied Ferrari the ability to do. If you can't find that gas and inconsistent fair enough.

I don't think the excuse of it being just practice is valid. Obviously it's in consideration when you review the effect the move or incident had because it's not as competitive but the inconsistencies were only highlighted more.

The fact that both incidents in short time involved Lewis and Seb means their fans will just argue in defence of their favourite driver over the other rather than debate about the rules and regulations of racing. It's been something that people have questioned for the last number of years and the last few weeks and how perfectly it's played out has highlighted some of the problems even more.

I'm hopeful that it may push for changes for future seasons but I wouldn't hold my breath.

mickdw

The Renault seemed to be running crazy levels of rake in fp1. I know they have some new stuff but it looked very different.

AMKC

quokula wrote: »

Same here, I never missed a race from 1992 to mid 2018, but I just can't endure this awful hybrid formula anymore, there hasn't been a good reason to watch F1 in 7 years now.

I've missed about half the races so far this year (I'll still watch if I happen to be home and it's on, but no point planning my weekend around it anymore) - the last GP prompted me to cancel my long standing autosport subscription too.

I also thought about starting one but did not want to in case someone else might and knowing this is the track that is hard to look at was not really bothered.

As for Autosport well that is long by its best.

There is Formula E live on tomorrow from Bern Switzerland. Should be good. Its on Quest from 16.30 and I will just watch the F1 Highlights after whenever I feel like it.

Mitch Connor

Can't believe Hamilton got away with that. Should have put 5 seconds on the end of his practice time.

Harika

The rule vettel was punished is for the race only, if you can prove that Hamilton has gained an advantage for the race on Sunday yesterday please go ahead and add 5 seconds

vectra

Harika wrote: »

The rule vettel was punished is for the race only, if you can prove that Hamilton has gained an advantage for the race on Sunday yesterday please go ahead and add 5 seconds

What nonsense is this??
What has it got to do with "gaining an advantage"?
The issue I see is Hamilton forced another driver off the track !
IE
Rejoined in a dangerous manner.

Adamocovic

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Can't believe Hamilton got away with that. Should have put 5 seconds on the end of his practice time.

I know this is more in jest but feels it's missing the point, focusing more on Lewis than the question of the current setup.

Harika wrote: »

The rule vettel was punished is for the race only, if you can prove that Hamilton has gained an advantage for the race on Sunday yesterday please go ahead and add 5 seconds

I've mentioned it before but this is one of the negatives of it involving Lewis and Seb, yes their platforms brings attention to the issues but because of the divide between their fans it pushes it to focus more on the individual drivers than the criticisms of the rules. If you aren't actually a fan of either and just support the FIA and their current procedures fair enough.


Again it's not about seeking punishment for Lewis but it raises more questions against the FIA and the rule procedure. Maybe I'm mistaken but in the rule-book I don't think it specifically mentions the rule is only for race day but rather the advantage part is one of the judging criteria on unsafe re-joining of the track, so obviously during qualy an race day punishments are more the norm.

The problem like I've said, and many others, is that so shortly after the FIA refuse the request of being able to review a decision on re-joining, another one is then reviewed with the teams/drivers present to explain and make their case and come to a decision.

Timing makes it quite entertaining and the fact it involved one of the drivers from last time and also another one who was vocal after the race about rule reform. For once I actually am siding with Verstappen's opinion that incidents regarding re-joining should be open to review and unless contact has been made should probably be reviewed after the session.

It sounds like rule reform may be pushed by the drivers considering their responses, and I hope so, but do find it odd that after years of fans questioning the FIA and their implementation of rules, some fans are siding with them and don't see issues in the current setup.

Adamocovic

Don't you know that there will be another re-joining incident during race day to add drama!

Also was hoping the Renaults would go strong this weekend but the practice results don't have it looking that way.

Rossi IRL

Looked to me like Verstappen still had about 5 car widths of track to make the corner.

Not exactly identical to the Canada incident.

Now if Hamilton swerved back across the track onto the racing line forcing Verstappen to jam on the brakes then they would be near enough identical.

Edit: Not 5 but definitely 2 to 3 car widths

Adamocovic

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Looked to me like Verstappen still had about 5 car widths of track to make the corner.

Not exactly identical to the Canada incident.

Now if Hamilton swerved back across the track onto the racing line forcing Verstappen to jam on the brakes then they would be near enough identical.

He definitely didn't have 5 car widths. Lewis rejoined the racing line through the chicane and why Verstappen went wide, lost a bit of grip and came off the track.

Lewis even put his hand up apologising straight after.

But again it's not really about the particular incident but rather how the FIA choose to enforce the rules.

Adamocovic

Also why on earth did the light not change from green when Hamilton came off.

Very odd as they had plenty of time to react. Big error on their part.

skipper_G

Harika wrote: »

The rule vettel was punished is for the race only, if you can prove that Hamilton has gained an advantage for the race on Sunday yesterday please go ahead and add 5 seconds

This is incorrect, it specifies in the sporting regulations that "pit lane and track discipline and safety measures shall be the same for all practice sessions as for the race".

The difference is in sanctions that can be applied, there are more options for a penalty in race than in practice. The choice for a free practice infringement is deletion of lap time(s), reprimand or grid drop. The Hamilton incident doesn't merit a grid drop, a reprimand would have been adequate.

eagle eye

It wouldn't surprise me if their viewership figures are down and they are trying to cause a bit of controversy to get more people watching.

Harika

skipper_G wrote: »

This is incorrect, it specifies in the sporting regulations that "pit lane and track discipline and safety measures shall be the same for all practice sessions as for the race".

The difference is in sanctions that can be applied, there are more options for a penalty in race than in practice. The choice for a free practice infringement is deletion of lap time(s), reprimand or grid drop. The Hamilton incident doesn't merit a grid drop, a reprimand would have been adequate.

Article 27.3 of the Sporting Regulations states: "Drivers will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with it and, for the avoidance of doubt, any white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not. Should a car leave the track the driver may re-join, however, this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining a lasting advantage.

The last five words are the key to the difference between the two incidents.

eagle eye

Harika wrote:

The last five words are the key to the difference between the two incidents.

Sorry basically there is no consideration for racing incidents or for an uncontrolled car?

Harika

eagle eye wrote: »

Sorry basically there is no consideration for racing incidents or for an uncontrolled car?

The regulations were requested this way by the drivers to avoid disambiguation, now it is still wrong....

skipper_G

Harika wrote: »

Article 27.3 of the Sporting Regulations states: "Drivers will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with it and, for the avoidance of doubt, any white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not. Should a car leave the track the driver may re-join, however, this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining a lasting advantage.

The last five words are the key to the difference between the two incidents.

You claimed the rule Vettel was punished for is different for race and practice, it's not. The possible sanctions are different. I was just clearing that up, not getting into another debate about Canada.

Harika

skipper_G wrote: »

You claimed the rule Vettel was punished for is different for race and practice, it's not. The possible sanctions are different. I was just clearing that up, not getting into another debate about Canada.

Shame on me for not putting my law hat on.
😉

pjohnson

McLaren looking very promising. Haas just not having a good year.

Adamocovic

pjohnson wrote: »

McLaren looking very promising. Haas just not having a good year.

Same old story for Haas.

Have a decent car when it's firing but always seems to be problems.

HighLine

Think this could be the first time I remember there not being a race thread on here... says it all really about the current interest in F1.

pjohnson

HighLine wrote: »

Think this could be the first time I remember there not being a race thread on here... says it all really about the current interest in F1.

Is anyone allowed make them or was it not a mod that made them?

elperello

There was a lovely filler item there on Sky with Rosberg father and son.
Probably the highlight of the weekend.

Jordan 199

pjohnson wrote: »

Is anyone allowed make them or was it not a mod that made them?

Make one if you want to

pjohnson

Jordan 199 wrote: »

Make one if you want to

I dont have time but can do up my OP later.