New bus lanes set to greatly reduce journey times by 50%

devnull

beauf wrote: »

Seems like you can't be for a project and point out potential issues. No middle ground. Everything is black and white. Apparently.

Well based on what I read in the media today, it's clear that project is fatally flawed since it talks very little about the benefits of the plan but talks a lot about peoples gardens without really explaining what benefits have been outlined.

I agree that there needs to be some balance and middle ground, but we're not really getting that from the media either are we, truth be told?

beauf

A lot of good ideas seem to sabotaged by the ham fisted way they are announced.

Some traffic trends and volumes and projected growth would have gone a long way to prepare the public reception of transport plans.

monument

beauf wrote: »

Taxis...?

So, that's a no then?

sharper

devnull wrote: »

Very surprised to see an alliance between the NIMBYS and the NBRU truth be told.

I have a feeling some pay rises would make one of those groups be suddenly happy with the plan.

Podge_irl

beauf wrote: »

Seems like you can't be for a project and point out potential issues. No middle ground. Everything is black and white. Apparently.

I think part of the problem is that ultimately no matter what project/plan they come up with there are going to be potential issues. Now they can look to mitigate that and make it the best plan possible, but ultimately we are going to reach a point where people are going to have to be told "tough ****". I would suggest that those pointing out the issues could be asked what they could think of as an alternative.

Also I think some of the attitudes of those in favour of these projects is undoubtedly driven by the wildly one-sided negative slant constantly advanced by the media. It is bordering on the outright absurd at this point.

Lord Glentoran

sharper wrote: »

I have a feeling some pay rises would make one of those groups be suddenly happy with the plan.

And some Compo for the other group will ease the pain, no doubt

Rezident

Worth it and LONG overdue. Public transport in Dublin is a very expensive joke, that's why I started cycling years ago.

sharper

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

And some Compo for the other group will ease the pain, no doubt

CPOs are usually pretty nice. It's not like anyone's granny is going to get forced out of the house she's lived in for 90 years so I don't see that being too much of an issue.

The areas where motorists will be inconvenienced are the most risky. The motorist lobby are effective and the media loves a good "You won't believe how long your car journey will take" stories.

The next disaster is when they start altering the routes and we get a reminder of why busses end up doing loops upon loops around estates.

beauf

monument wrote: »

So, that's a no then?

Ask a strawman get a strawman answer. Seems fair to me

beauf

Podge_irl wrote: »

I think part of the problem is that ultimately no matter what project/plan they come up with there are going to be potential issues. Now they can look to mitigate that and make it the best plan possible, .....

... well a complete surprise was certainly one way to go....

Eric Cartman

I can see them succeeding north of the Liffey, lobbing off peoples gardens in terenure / blackrock etc... will be doomed to disaster and legal challenges.

I'd support this is if was to add additional lanes for all, this will not help motorists at all.

Podge_irl

beauf wrote: »

... well a complete surprise was certainly one way to go....

It's a public consultation period. What exactly is it they should have done differently?

sharper

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I'd support this is if was to add additional lanes for all, this will not help motorists at all.

These are additional lanes for all. Bus lanes can transport multiples of the number of people a car lane can.

marno21

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I can see them succeeding north of the Liffey, lobbing off peoples gardens in terenure / blackrock etc... will be doomed to disaster and legal challenges.

I'd support this is if was to add additional lanes for all, this will not help motorists at all.

It is NTA policy to provide no additional roadspace for private cars inside M50. From now on motorists will only be losing space.

marno21

Podge_irl wrote: »

It's a public consultation period. What exactly is it they should have done differently?

Perhaps the media could have been less negative and trying to create an atmosphere of fear around a project which ultimately creates large benefits for the majority of people in Dublin city and the city itself.

Stephen15

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I can see them succeeding north of the Liffey, lobbing off peoples gardens in terenure / blackrock etc... will be doomed to disaster and legal challenges.

I'd support this is if was to add additional lanes for all, this will not help motorists at all.

I don't think there any need to expand the bus lane in Blackrock. Blackrock has probably the best stretch of cycle lane in the city. What is needed there is to pull the 7/a out of the village permanently.

Eric Cartman

sharper wrote: »

These are additional lanes for all. Bus lanes can transport multiples of the number of people a car lane can.

and I'm sure the bus lane is a great relief to tradesmen, delivery drivers and other people who actually have to use a car to go to work.

GarIT

Eric Cartman wrote: »

and I'm sure the bus lane is a great relief to tradesmen, delivery drivers and other people who actually have to use a car to go to work.

Well every full double decker bus in the bus lane takes 90 cars off the road they have to drive on so they should be.

Podge_irl

Eric Cartman wrote: »

and I'm sure the bus lane is a great relief to tradesmen, delivery drivers and other people who actually have to use a car to go to work.

Yes it will be. I'm sure they'll find it a lot easier when more people are using the quick, efficient and reliable public transport to get into town instead of relying on their cars and creating traffic problems. There is already a wildly disproportionate amount of road space given over to private cars. A proper bus lane will be multiple times more effective at reducing congestion than a new general traffic lane.

It's really not that complicated a concept.

StreetLight

Podge_irl wrote: »

It's really not that complicated a concept.

No, but enforcement is.

Eric Cartman

Podge_irl wrote: »

Yes it will be. I'm sure they'll find it a lot easier when more people are using the quick, efficient and reliable public transport to get into town instead of relying on their cars and creating traffic problems. There is already a wildly disproportionate amount of road space given over to private cars. A proper bus lane will be multiple times more effective at reducing congestion than a new general traffic lane.

It's really not that complicated a concept.

you're forgetting that its a semi-state body , you'll need a lot more than tarmac to get that. Privatisation isn't on the table yet.

beauf

Podge_irl wrote: »

It's a public consultation period. What exactly is it they should have done differently?

Some positive promotion campaign of alternatives to the car.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2013/12/13/how-children-demanding-play-streets-changed-amsterdam/

https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2016/01/05/motorway-removed-to-bring-back-original-water/

..and for no reason at all.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/may/05/amsterdam-bicycle-capital-world-transport-cycling-kindermoord

Podge_irl

beauf wrote: »

Some positive promotion campaign of alternatives to the car.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2013/12/13/how-children-demanding-play-streets-changed-amsterdam/

https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2016/01/05/motorway-removed-to-bring-back-original-water/

..and for no reason at all.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/may/05/amsterdam-bicycle-capital-world-transport-cycling-kindermoord

The NTA material sets out its case pretty well. They could probably market it better but they don't control how the media across the board focus relentlessly on the negatives.

I don't understand the "complete surprise" comment.

beauf

sharper wrote: »

These are additional lanes for all. Bus lanes can transport multiples of the number of people a car lane can.

There's an variation of this here...

https://www.treehugger.com/bikes/a-picture-is-worth42-folding-bikes-vs-one-car.html

beauf

Podge_irl wrote: »

The NTA material sets out its case pretty well. They could probably market it better but they don't control how the media across the board focus relentlessly on the negatives.

I don't understand the "complete surprise" comment.

A positive campaign then announce the NTA material.

Done now, so doesn't matter I suppose.

magicbastarder

is there any solid data on where people are actually going when they drive into the city centre at rush hour? how many have the city centre as their destination, as opposed to how many are crossing the city centre?

beauf

You'd think Google Maps could tell them.

marno21

Evil conniving NTA to be called in front of Oireachtas Transport Committee to explain themselves for heinously trying to improve public transport in heavily congested city

https://www.finegael.ie/transport-committee-hauling-in-nta-for-answers-on-busconnects-is-welcome-rock/

Charles Babbage

bk wrote: »

I know, I live there. And I'm already seeing homes being bought up and knocked and being replaced by higher and more dense apartment buildings all around me. No not 10 storey buildings, but certainly 4 storey buildings.

The north inner city is currently going through some major regeneration with homes being bought up by investors, houses being knocked and replaced by much higher density student accommodation.

We will see a lot more of this over the next 20 years.

Investors will buy up individal sites, but has there been a single example of the city CPOing an area to redevelop it? Not that this will directly address the issue at hand, but it should be part of the solution. Entire streets of third rate single storey housing should be cleared in some cases.

Skatedude

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The poor souls , 2 high frequency PT options on their doorsteps. How will they ever cope with the related increase in property values. :rolleyes:

Nope as someone already bribed an bord pleanala to build a huge apartment block on the addison lodge site which means those along mobhi road will already be affected,no more sunlight and or privacy coupled with the loss of the na Fianna pitches as well as their front gardens? Too much to demand from them.

They can add all the public transport they want, None of which has ever been available when I need to get to work. Not everyone works 9 to 5, many of us need to be on the road well before the buses start