New bus lanes set to greatly reduce journey times by 50%

Hurrache

No, I don't think it's reasonable to compare having a luas or rail service on your doorstep with a bus corridor, and the various links to stories highlighting the effect on house prices that were posted are irrelevant.

marno21

On the flipside, I'd imagine property in SW Dublin would be lesser valued by virtue of the fact it's a 90 minute bus journey into the city centre. After BusConnects that's proposed to be a quarter of that

bk

Hurrache wrote: »

No, I don't think it's reasonable to compare having a luas or rail service on your doorstep with a bus corridor, and the various links to stories highlighting the effect on house prices that were posted are irrelevant.

In fairness, a high quality bus corridor with fast, direct, frequent and reliable buses might well change peoples perceptions of buses and increase values. To be honest with you my closest bus stop has like about 6 core routes on it. There is a bus about every minute or two. Even now, it makes for a really good service, in many ways I find it better then the DART with their current big gaps in frequency.

I agree that a bus corridor is unlikely to reach the levels of DART/Luas/Metro, but with good enough buses it will make a big difference in property value IMO.

DUBLINBUSGUY

On the Bray to City Centre bus corridor, one of the challenges would be Shankill Village. They say they might "divert cyclists around Shankill Village via a series of quiet routes and new cycling links to the east of the village".
Would it not be a better idea to add bus lanes and copy the idea on Shanganagh Road and the Rock Road where there are bus lanes with cycle lanes taking up half the bus lane.
There is the argument that if buses encounter cyclists and have to overtake them using the traffic lane this will make adding the bus lanes useless but in Shankill, only a few cyclists use the road every few hours.
It's not the best idea based on that argument but in Shankill Village, I can see it working.

magicbastarder

i am curious as to why (for example) they're talking about one between ballymun and phibsboro - and the cost of implementing this (depending on the level of CPOing required) when the metro is due to run between ballymun and phibsboro.

LeinsterDub

Hurrache wrote: »

No, I don't think it's reasonable to compare having a luas or rail service on your doorstep with a bus corridor, and the various links to stories highlighting the effect on house prices that were posted are irrelevant.

Not much in the way of major bus infrastructure projects to compare to in fairness.

LeinsterDub

magicbastarder wrote: »

i am curious as to why (for example) they're talking about one between ballymun and phibsboro - and the cost of implementing this (depending on the level of CPOing required) when the metro is due to run between ballymun and phibsboro.

Because ML is 10 years away if it ever sees the light of day .There is also the value of the cycling project and even with ML buses will still be the back bone of the network

sbsquarepants

bk wrote: »

A recent report found that homes close to good public transport fetch an extra €100,000.

People who work in the city center happily pay a premium for quick and reliable commutes.

There is a difference between close to and actually on.

5 minute walk to a train station is great and will likely add a few quid on to the property price, a train rattling past your bedroom window every half hour - not so great and will likely do the opposite.

A lot of people (myself included) quite like the idea of a buffer zone between their front door and a busy road. For that very reason, I'd have no interest in living in town, but if I was happened to live close by and have a nice garden between me and the traffic - I would not be one bit impressed with buses driving through it!

bk

GarIT wrote: »

I could possibly save money getting rid of the car, probably not if I switch to an EV. The saving on taxi's lessen the expense and the other benefits make up for it. If I lived closer to city centre I possibly wouldn't have a car.

Yes, the running costs of a EV are very attractive. But then that is after paying out about 30k on a car. That would buy you a lot of taxi rides!

I'd love to get an EV myself, though I struggle with if it is really worth it. I live very close to the city and absolutely don't need a car day to day, so probably not really worth it.

As you say, it depends on how close you live from the city. No one is saying you shouldn't have a choice not to have a car at all. But realistically if you live in a dense area close to the city center, the reality is you should be making the choice not to have a car and depend on walking/cycling/bus/luas along with the odd Taxi and Go Car.

If you really have to have a car, you just like them or work outside the city, etc. then you probably need to look at living further outside the core city, like you do.

Very few people who live within 3km of down town Copenhagen or Amsterdam own a car. The whole concept of owning a 3 bed house with a garden front and back and private parking within 3km of O'Connell Bridge is pretty made stuff and completely unsustainable.

We are going to have to get use to the idea that living within a few km of Dublin City center will mean greatly increasingly population density and few cars with most people who live in this area commuting by bus, bike, etc.

Hurrache

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Not much in the way of major bus infrastructure projects to compare to in fairness.

You say there's not much to compare to, but yet people are.

Carlos Orange

magicbastarder wrote: »

i am curious as to why (for example) they're talking about one between ballymun and phibsboro - and the cost of implementing this (depending on the level of CPOing required) when the metro is due to run between ballymun and phibsboro.

I imagine it is to do with the timelines and cyclists. Still seems a bit much that my house will have the metro on one side,a bus corridor on the other and a Luas line along the bottom. It's like living in Bray or something. Still I imagine all of them will be so slow I'll still just walk to work.

punisher5112

One thing that would speed up journey times right away would be enforcing bus lanes, yellow box junctions and blocked clearways oh and better designed bus stops with illegal parking enforcement.

Stephen Strange

punisher5112 wrote: »

One thing that would speed up journey times right away would be enforcing bus lanes, yellow box junctions and blocked clearways oh and better designed bus stops with illegal parking enforcement.

I was just thinking that. The plan should include a change in legislation to allow NTA to issue FPNs for such offences and should include additional funding for red light, yellow box and bus lane cameras along the bus corridors in this plan.

Dyr

punisher5112 wrote: »

One thing that would speed up journey times right away would be enforcing bus lanes, yellow box junctions and blocked clearways oh and better designed bus stops with illegal parking enforcement.

Ah here, take funding out of the NTA's infrastructure budget and spend it on enforcement?

Not on their watch

beauf

bk wrote: »

Yes, the running costs of a EV are very attractive. But then that is after paying out about 30k on a car. That would buy you a lot of taxi rides!

I'd love to get an EV myself, though I struggle with if it is really worth it. I live very close to the city and absolutely don't need a car day to day, so probably not really worth it.

As you say, it depends on how close you live from the city. No one is saying you shouldn't have a choice not to have a car at all. But realistically if you live in a dense area close to the city center, the reality is you should be making the choice not to have a car and depend on walking/cycling/bus/luas along with the odd Taxi and Go Car.

If you really have to have a car, you just like them or work outside the city, etc. then you probably need to look at living further outside the core city, like you do.

Very few people who live within 3km of down town Copenhagen or Amsterdam own a car. The whole concept of owning a 3 bed house with a garden front and back and private parking within 3km of O'Connell Bridge is pretty made stuff and completely unsustainable.

We are going to have to get use to the idea that living within a few km of Dublin City center will mean greatly increasingly population density and few cars with most people who live in this area commuting by bus, bike, etc.

I mainly use my car not for commuting but for off peak activities. Both in the evenings and at the weekend. So just because you don't use it for commuting we shouldn't assume people don't need a car.

bk

beauf wrote: »

I mainly use my car not for commuting but for off peak activities. Both in the evenings and at the weekend. So just because you don't use it for commuting we shouldn't assume people don't need a car.

Have you ever thought of how expensive it is to maintain your car just to do that?

Ever though about maybe not having the car and just renting/go car on the weekend instead? Or taking buses, etc.?

Your talking to someone here who spends most of my weekends all over Ireland, hiking, etc. It takes a bit more planning without a car, but certainly do able.

beauf

Its used for family (old and young) commitments, none of it possible on public transport.

bk

beauf wrote: »

Its used for family (old and young) commitments, none of it possible on public transport.

I've a family too, including kids and yet somehow make do too!

If you really, really need a car at the weekend. Then you need to choose to either rent a car/go car at the weekend (could end up cheaper anyway) or live further out.

The problem is people have unrealistic expectations.

Live in a three bedroom house, 3km from O'Connell St, garden front and back, high quality public transport but a car out front for weekend use and of course all for just a 200k mortgage. LOL.

We really have to get real about what city center living means, it's trade offs and pros and cons. And how unrealistic the above is and how people expectations will need to change as our population continue to explode.

You can have your car for the weekend if you want. But then you most likely need to live further out in the suburbs.

Stephen Strange

bk wrote: »

Have you ever thought of how expensive it is to maintain your car just to do that?

Ever though about maybe not having the car and just renting/go car on the weekend instead? Or taking buses, etc.?

Your talking to someone here who spends most of my weekends all over Ireland, hiking, etc. It takes a bit more planning without a car, but certainly do able.

The main weakness in Dublin at the moment imo is the hours of operation of pt in Dublin, hopefully this will change (I'd like to see 24/7 operations on the 16 corridors mentioned in this plan). I work a 24/7 shift roster and its just not possible/financially viable to make do without a car.

bk

Stephen Strange wrote: »

The main weakness in Dublin at the moment imo is the hours of operation of pt in Dublin, hopefully this will change (I'd like to see 24/7 operations on the 16 corridors mentioned in this plan). I work a 24/7 shift roster and its just not possible/financially viable to make do without a car.

Absolutely I agree 100% on you on that point. Currently public transport is not fit for purpose for a modern city in this regard.

Supposedly at least 3 24/7 routes are planned to start soon (can't come soon enough). Hopefully that will eventually expand to all of these core corridors.

marno21

In relation to the 24 hour running, The loosening of the CIE grip on bus services in Dublin should help. Suggesting 24 hour running when BusConnects goes to public consultation would be a good idea too

cfuserkildare

Many people, Like myself, simply have no choice but to own and use a car every day.

To get to My place of work takes approximately 2 and a half hours using public transport.

5 hours each day if I don't drive, How can Any modern city justify that???

storker

Qrt wrote: »

1) The trees boasted significant history, they weren't just regular trees.

Serves them right for keeping people awake at night. They should have limited their boasting to during the day.

bk

cfuserkildare wrote: »

Many people, Like myself, simply have no choice but to own and use a car every day.

To get to My place of work takes approximately 2 and a half hours using public transport.

5 hours each day if I don't drive, How can Any modern city justify that???

I assume you aren't living and working in the core city center so? Or you wouldn't have a commute like this if you did.

Therefore this doesn't really effect you.

No one is saying that no one can have cars, of course some people have no choice but to have one. But then they should be living further out in the suburbs where there is more space for parking then.

People who live in the core city center, should be working in the city center and shouldn't need a car, they should be taking public transport. That is how it works in most cities.

Hurrache

The issue is that the effects of this scheme are not all confined to the core of the city, like the luas cross city, it's having an affect as far as Greenhills and Terenure.

beauf

bk wrote: »

I've a family too, including kids and yet somehow make do too!

If you really, really need a car at the weekend. Then you need to choose to either rent a car/go car at the weekend (could end up cheaper anyway) or live further out.

The problem is people have unrealistic expectations.

Live in a three bedroom house, 3km from O'Connell St, garden front and back, high quality public transport but a car out front for weekend use and of course all for just a 200k mortgage. LOL.

We really have to get real about what city center living means, it's trade offs and pros and cons. And how unrealistic the above is and how people expectations will need to change as our population continue to explode.

You can have your car for the weekend if you want. But then you most likely need to live further out in the suburbs.

You make do, it because its viable for you. That doesn't make it viable for everyone else.

Also there are Suburbs within 3km of O'Connell bridge. They already exist. Its not like you are going to knock it all down and build 10 story buildings, when most of the actual city center, within 1km is low rise. beside which most of these bus routes are a lot further out, they are actually in the suburbs.

Even in places like Tokyo and New York people have cars. They might have them in a storage garage. Once you get beyond Manhattan there are suburbs and people with cars.

I'm all for a improving public transport, and getting cars off the streets. But lets not start from a reality that doesn't exist.

beauf

Of course the solution is to work outside of Dublin in jobs that don't exist.

bk

Let me take a step back here for a moment, a lot of people here seem to think this will effect them when it won't effect most people, at least not directly (they might benefit indirectly from quicker bus journeys).

This will only directly effect 1,300 homes out of 450,000 or so homes in Dublin!

Of those 1,300 or so, not all will lose their parking, most will likely just lose a few feet of garden, but still have space for a garden/parking. For the minority of these who do lose their parking, then the NTA say they will supply alternative parking close by.

So again, this won't effect most people and who it does effect, they will still be able to keep their car.

If you wondering if your home will be one of those 1,300 or so, it should be easy enough to tell. Look out your front window, are their lots of buses speeding by your window every two or three minutes, then you might be effected. Everyone else off side streets and estates can relax.

I can't speak for all 16 corridors. But for the ones I know personally, the vast majority of homes along these roads are mostly rented accommodation to students or young people. Very few if any families live in them. That is because they already face out onto very busy roads. This change won't be a major deal for them.

Stephen15

DUBLINBUSGUY wrote: »

On the Bray to City Centre bus corridor, one of the challenges would be Shankill Village. They say they might "divert cyclists around Shankill Village via a series of quiet routes and new cycling links to the east of the village".
Would it not be a better idea to add bus lanes and copy the idea on Shanganagh Road and the Rock Road where there are bus lanes with cycle lanes taking up half the bus lane.
There is the argument that if buses encounter cyclists and have to overtake them using the traffic lane this will make adding the bus lanes useless but in Shankill, only a few cyclists use the road every few hours.
It's not the best idea based on that argument but in Shankill Village, I can see it working.

There should a peak only 145X that bypasses Shankill like the 84X. No Xpresso to Bray yet.

beauf

bk wrote: »

Let me take a step back here for a moment, a lot of people here seem to think this will effect them when it won't effect most people, a.. .

Doesn't effect me at all. I just disagree with your sweeping generalizations.